playing devil's advocate

[madeleine]

excuse me for being mean and crossing the line but the more children he loses the more he believes in God?if you're taking the religious path because it's the only way you can cope with what happened and survive then why on the other hand are you behaving like you do?you're too weak and hurt to talk and help the cops but you do have the strength to bash everyone and be on TV all the time and send your lawyers over to your friends in order to control what they know about the crime?

 

[madeleine]

the more bad things happen to me the more I am asking myself,hey,maybe this is a sign from God that I should CHANGE myself or something in my life?I just don't close my eyes and live in denial and take comfort in the thought that everything I do is forgiven without me doing ANYTHING....just a thought ...........

 

[dodie20]

excuse me for being mean and crossing the line but the more children he loses the more he believes in God?if you're taking the religious path because it's the only way you can cope with what happened and survive then why on the other hand are you behaving like you do?you're too weak and hurt to talk and help the cops but you do have the strength to bash everyone and be on TV all the time and send your lawyers over to your friends in order to control what they know about the crime?

and he wasn't too grief stricken to lawyer up and hire lawyers for each of his family members. Now, that was calculating, IMO. What grief stricken parent thinks of such things? Lawyer up and then blame the lawyer's advice for not cooperating. How convenient. If a parent does Not lawyer up, but refuses to cooperate, that doesn't look too good, does it? But if he hires a lawyer, it's acceptable, because he's following 'sound advice'. Same parent, same outcome, but what a difference having the money to lawyer up can do. And JR went above and beyond, when it came to lawyering up. moo

 

[dodie20]

the more bad things happen to me the more I am asking myself,hey,maybe this is a sign from God that I should CHANGE myself or something in my life?I just don't close my eyes and live in denial and take comfort in the thought that everything I do is forgiven without me doing ANYTHING....just a thought ...........

and they went on and on about JB being in a better place. Totally excusing what happened to her. According to the R's logic, we should all be so lucky. NOT!

 

[dodie20]

I don't care what religion you are, this life on this earth is considered a gift, and we are here to live it to our fullest potential...not to have it snuffed out after 6 measly years so we can get to a better place. moo

 

[Nom de plume]

ITA madeleine! Their words and their actions do not match. If I had lost two children the way they did I would be sure it was God's punishment for some sin in my life. That thought never seems to cross their minds.

JR & PR both seem to bring their Christianity up when it's convienent for them to use it to defend themselves. I was sickened by Patsy's reference to "the only difference between them & Job is that they have TV". uke: While I cannot truly know what is/was in either of their hearts, I am always suspicious of anyone that proclaims so loudly what great Christians they are, especially when trying to defend themselves. IMO it's using God for one's own selfish benefit, and a very dangerous game to play.

 

[madeleine]

I don't care what religion you are, this life on this earth is considered a gift, and we are here to live it to our fullest potential...not to have it snuffed out after 6 measly years so we can get to a better place. moo

excellent post!
she will never suffer from cancer or death of a child.....who says she would have????she had all the chances NOT to and have a great life!it's SAD that she never had a chance!and I would be angry at the one who took it all from her!forgiveness?yes maybe BUT after I know WHO it was and WHY!

 

[madeleine]

they are what I'd call a big FRAUD

 

[BOESP]

he's HIDING behind his so-called beliefs...that's what he does....hiding and avoiding ANSWERING serious questions....



CABELL: Are you fully convinced that your daughter was kidnapped by some outsiders outside your family or circle of friends?

RAMSEY, J: Yes. I -- we don't -- you know, it's just so hard to know, but we are -- our family is a loving family. It's a gentle family. We have lost one child. We know how precious their lives are .

HELLO???didn't you hear the question??

BBM ... hmmm ... which one of the two dead children does he mean?

 

[madeleine]

BBM ... hmmm ... which one of the two dead children does he mean?

IMO Beth

they felt sorry and suffered for Beth....but Jonbenet is good,she's in a better place....weird huh....Beths life was precious,Jonbenets not?

 

[madeleine]

I have absolutely NO problem with them lawyering up...1.it's legal,2.there have been many cases ,police planting evidence,being corrupt,etc

what I can't believe (how arrogant) is that their lawyers went straight to the Fernies and Whites to find out what they know/heard,etc.....taking control immediately....it's not like the Ramseys thought their friends to be suspects...it was about control.....to know exactly how to prepare the Ramseys....NOT to investigate/find out who did it

 

[Bayareamom]

Madeleine,

The Ramseys were, in effect, treated as 'Defendants' from the very beginning by their attorneys. So from that perspective this is how/why their ship was steered in the direction that it was.

I'm NOT condoning this and I certainly disagreed with the manner in which the Ramseys were given SO many 'passes' when it came to treatment (such as being allowed to see prior statements and given other pieces of evidence by the DA's office), other than what the average American citizen would have been given under similar circumstances.

You are correct; the Ramseys were BEING PREPARED (emotionally and otherwise) - as Defendants - by their own attorneys.

Obviously, this strategy worked...for the Ramseys, that is.

 

[Bayareamom]

...should note they were treated as 'Defendants,' NOT as 'suspects,' by their attorneys. BIG difference...

 

[Nom de plume]

and he wasn't too grief stricken to lawyer up and hire lawyers for each of his family members. Now, that was calculating, IMO. What grief stricken parent thinks of such things? Lawyer up and then blame the lawyer's advice for not cooperating. How convenient. If a parent does Not lawyer up, but refuses to cooperate, that doesn't look too good, does it? But if he hires a lawyer, it's acceptable, because he's following 'sound advice'. Same parent, same outcome, but what a difference having the money to lawyer up can do. And JR went above and beyond, when it came to lawyering up. moo

BBM Isn't that interesting. He lawyered up all of HIS family, even his ex wife, but not Patsy's family. That tells me that he was far more worried about himself, and what ugly truths might possibly come out about him, than he was about Patsy.

And yes, you're right about how differently it's viewed. I noticed in the CBN interview that he says how they WANTED to cooperate but the big, bad, mean lawyers wouldn't let them. Poor John & Patsy....first the victim of a horrible, pedophile, FF, babbling, kidnapper (not), killer. Then the victim of the evil BPD that were out to get them. Later the victim of the biased media. And finally, the victim of their own attorneys. Kid...what kid? Oh yeah....her. Really terrible that we've been victimized so much cause of her. :banghead:

 

[Nom de plume]

Madeleine,

The Ramseys were, in effect, treated as 'Defendants' from the very beginning by their attorneys. So from that perspective this is how/why their ship was steered in the direction that it was.

I'm NOT condoning this and I certainly disagreed with the manner in which the Ramseys were given SO many 'passes' when it came to treatment (such as being allowed to see prior statements and given other pieces of evidence by the DA's office), other than what the average American citizen would have been given under similar circumstances.

You are correct; the Ramseys were BEING PREPARED (emotionally and otherwise) - as Defendants - by their own attorneys.

Obviously, this strategy worked...for the Ramseys, that is.

ITA that their attorneys were treating them as defendants. Are you saying that you think their own attorneys thought they were guilty or that they thought BPD was going to railroad them? Says a lot when your own attorneys think you are so obviously guilty that you will eventually go from being a suspect to a defendant. Just :moo:

 

[Bayareamom]

Nom,

It's stated the R's attorneys were treating their own clients as potential 'Defendants' in various written literature on this case, including the book PMPT. I am assuming these attorneys realized that finding a dead body in their clients' home was potentially NOT indicative of an intruder having committed the crime, given the nature of the ransom note and all the other evidence leading away from an intruder theory. I say this tongue-in-cheek, as any professional within the legal/police system know all too well that in homicide cases such as this, it is generally recognized that crimes of this sort are 'usually' committed by those of whom the victim knew on a personal basis.

It's called strategy; the lawyers hired by potential criminal defendants in a case will employ whatever strategy they feel will best help to DEFEND their clients.

GUILTY parties are represented by lawyers all the time and don't think for one darn moment that those various attorneys defending these same parties, DON'T REALIZE THAT. Of course they do...

The strategy employed by the Ramsey Team was to treat them essentially as Defendants. It was this very strategy which then led the attorneys for the R's to insist that their clients be given certain evidentiary materials PRIOR to allowing them to be interviewed by the police department. Police department personnel and personnel within the DA's office recognized this strategy for what it was and played their various hands accordingly.

Please understand, like it or not, that trials in our courts of law have absolutely nothing whatsoever TO DO WITH THE TRUTH. Trials are a game of strategy; one upmanship, if you will.

And yes, financial consideration does play a part as to how well you are represented in a court of law.

As I've stated, this is decidedly NOT a perfect system; it is what it is.

 

[Nom de plume]

Nom,

It's stated the R's attorneys were treating their own clients as potential 'Defendants' in various written literature on this case, including the book PMPT. I am assuming these attorneys realized that finding a dead body in their clients' home was potentially NOT indicative of an intruder having committed the crime, given the nature of the ransom note and all the other evidence leading away from an intruder theory. I say this tongue-in-cheek, as any professional within the legal/police system know all too well that in homicide cases such as this, it is generally recognized that crimes of this sort are 'usually' committed by those of whom the victim knew on a personal basis.

It's called strategy; the lawyers hired by potential criminal defendants in a case will employ whatever strategy they feel will best help to DEFEND their clients.

GUILTY parties are represented by lawyers all the time and don't think for one darn moment that those various attorneys defending these same parties, DON'T REALIZE THAT. Of course they do...

The strategy employed by the Ramsey Team was to treat them essentially as Defendants. It was this very strategy which then led the attorneys for the R's to insist that their clients be given certain evidentiary materials PRIOR to allowing them to be interviewed by the police department. Police department personnel and personnel within the DA's office recognized this strategy for what it was and played their various hands accordingly.

Please understand, like it or not, that trials in our courts of law have absolutely nothing whatsoever TO DO WITH THE TRUTH. Trials are a game of strategy; one upmanship, if you will.

And yes, financial consideration does play a part as to how well you are represented in a court of law.

As I've stated, this is decidedly NOT a perfect system; it is what it is.

I most certainly understand and agee that trials have nothing to do with the truth. Sad isn't it? It's even sadder that money can be the deciding factor in a guilty person going free or an innocent person going to prison. I know it wasn't always this way, and I'm very sorry that it has been manipulated into the poor excuse for justice that it is now. It surely is not a perfect system, but it is probably still the best out there.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I most certainly understand and agee that trials have nothing to do with the truth. Sad isn't it? It's even sadder that money can be the deciding factor in a guilty person going free or an innocent person going to prison. I know it wasn't always this way, and I'm very sorry that it has been manipulated into the poor excuse for justice that it is now. It surely is not a perfect system, but it is probably still the best out there.

I don't see how you can say it hasn't always been that way. I doubt a Rockefeller was going to jail in the 1800's for murder. Or an influential/rich person in 1400's Europe. And I'm sure there are plenty of examples from centuries ago where poor people went to jail for crimes they didn't commit.

 

[DeeDee249]

The thing I don't understand is that if JonBenet's death was not premeditated, that means that they didn't intend for her to die that day, but why did they act so strange? They still lost a child. But it seems like they distanced themselves from her.

They distanced themselves from the CRIME. You have to look at it that way.

 

[midwest mama]

They distanced themselves from the CRIME. You have to look at it that way.

Yes. And the reason they were able to distance themselves from the CRIME so effectively and easily is because they had been distancing themselves from JB as the type of responsible, loving, and nurturing parents they should have been. They were experienced at DISTANCING, :moo:!

Their children helped create the picture of what they thought their family should look like. How tragic that they ended up with a picture of exactly what a family with children should never look like.