Please Update George's Condition or New Developments Here

[Shaymus at The Rock]

Hi all,
Just wanted to give a little insight into how psyche units operate (at least the ones I have worked in as a nurse): generally there is a meeting with all professionals on a patients case to deem if that patient has met all their goals/if desired outcomes have been met. If they have not, then discharge is not recommended. Of course, after the Baker act expired GA could sign out AMA but it would not be in his best interest (of course).

Transfer between medical facilities is possible and is usually worked out by a case manager. He also may opt to stay in the same place and with his same treatment team if it is working for him.

My other thought (personal opinion only) on why he may continue in that same facility is because it is far away from the circus... If he chose to move closer to home it could also be detrimental to his mental state in terms of any triggers that led to his suicide attempt.

imhoo

Experience is the best teacher - thanks for the info. One little question - what is AMA ?

TIA

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

Experience is the best teacher - thanks for the info. One little question - what is AMA ?

TIA

AMA = Against Medical Advice

 

[Shaymus at The Rock]

AMA = Against Medical Advice

Thank you !

 

[ThoughtElf]

Hi all,
Just wanted to give a little insight into how psyche units operate (at least the ones I have worked in as a nurse): generally there is a meeting with all professionals on a patients case to deem if that patient has met all their goals/if desired outcomes have been met. If they have not, then discharge is not recommended. Of course, after the Baker act expired GA could sign out AMA but it would not be in his best interest (of course).

Transfer between medical facilities is possible and is usually worked out by a case manager. He also may opt to stay in the same place and with his same treatment team if it is working for him.

My other thought (personal opinion only) on why he may continue in that same facility is because it is far away from the circus... If he chose to move closer to home it could also be detrimental to his mental state in terms of any triggers that led to his suicide attempt.

imhoo

Great summation, Bee. Glad you added professional insight here on a topic that many are curios about.

 

[Never4GetCaylee]

It wouldn't surprise me either if George weren't still in the hospital. Maybe he went to stay with his parents for awhile. I can see a doctor recommending that he not go back to the circus just yet.

It's tough to stay in a mental facility unless it's really necessary, they have so few beds, it's hard to get one even when it really is necessary. If George is still in the hospital, when BC said because he choose too, it may just be that after the 72 hours expired, doctors still wanted to keep him and he agreed to that, rather than them having him declared incompetent or something.

 

[Friptzap]

Since George is not being held prisoner, I'm assuming that he was given a choice of remaining until a place can be found for him in another facility or of going home. If the docs felt he was emotionally ready to go home I don't think he'd have been given the option of staying. But really, I have no idea.

George was Baker acted, mandatory 7 days stay for observation.

Update just reported on news is that he may be transfered in a day or two to an Orange County facility. Apparently he needs a longer stay as I believe 7 days is up in a day or two.

When you are baker acted they hold you and you cannot leave of your own accord. If they deem you need a longer stay because of you being a danger to yourself they can and will hold you longer.

Insurance or not they just don't throw "crazy" people out in the streets.

 

[UCFAlumni2002]

My understanding with the BakerAct in the state of Florida is a mandatory 72 hour hold and then after that it is up to patient and doctor.

 

[ThoughtElf]

George was Baker acted, mandatory 7 days stay for observation.

Update just reported on news is that he may be transfered in a day or two to an Orange County facility. Apparently he needs a longer stay as I believe 7 days is up in a day or two.

When you are baker acted they hold you and you cannot leave of your own accord. If they deem you need a longer stay because of you being a danger to yourself they can and will hold you longer.

Insurance or not they just don't throw "crazy" people out in the streets.

For clarity, the Florida Baker Act does not include a mandatory 7 day observation period.

There is a mandatory 72 hour examination period, after which there are multiple possible outcomes, including options of petitioning for either further involuntary inpatient or out-patient treatment.

Here is an FAQ on the Florida Baker Act if you would like to learn more.

 

[Friptzap]

My understanding with the BakerAct in the state of Florida is a mandatory 72 hour hold and then after that it is up to patient and doctor.

Nope 7 days for involentary, 24 hours for volentary I believe. LONGER if the court remands a longer period. 7 Days is just the minimum period if no period is specified by the court.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/mentalhealth/laws/chapter394.pdf

Pulled from the above link:
2) INVOLUNTARY EXAMINATION.
An involuntary examination may be initiated by any one of the following means:
A court may enter an ex parte order stating that a person appears to meet the criteria for involuntary examination, giving the findings on which that conclusion is based. The ex parte order for involuntary examination must be based on sworn testimony, written or oral. If other less restrictive means are not available, such as voluntary appearance for outpatient evaluation, a law enforcement officer, or other designated agent of the court, shall take the person into custody and deliver him or her to the nearest receiving facility for involuntary examination. The order of the court shall be made a part of the patient’s clinical record. No fee shall be charged for the filing of an order under this subsection. Any receiving facility accepting the patient based on this order must send a copy of the order to the Agency for Health Care Administration on the next working day. The order shall be valid only until executed or, if not executed, for the period specified in the order itself. If no time limit is specified in the order, the order shall be valid for 7 days after the date that the order was signed.

 

[Friptzap]

this section does mention a 72 hour period though, not sure how this applies:

f) A patient shall be examined by a physician or clinical psychologist at a receiving facility without unnecessary delay and may, upon the order of a physician, be given emergency treatment if it is determined that such treatment is necessary for the safety of the patient or others. The patient may not be released by the receiving facility or its contractor without the documented approval of a psychiatrist, a clinical psychologist, or, if the receiving facility is a hospital, the release may also be approved by an attending emergency department physician with experience in the diagnosis and treatment of mental and nervous disorders and after completion of an involuntary examination pursuant to this subsection. However, a patient may not be held in a receiving facility for involuntary examination longer than 72 hours.


I guess the ORDER is valid for 7 days but the person is held for 72 hours, longer if deemed a risk I suppose.? I thought that is what I read earlier on in the above mentioned pdf document regarding the statutes and the baker act.


AHHH this part explains it more:

i) Within the 72-hour examination period or, if the 72 hours ends on a weekend or holiday, no later than the next working day thereafter, one of the following actions must be taken, based on the individual needs of the patient:
The patient shall be released, unless he or she is charged with a crime, in which case the patient shall be returned to the custody of a law enforcement officer;
The patient shall be released, subject to the provisions of subparagraph 1., for voluntary outpatient treatment;
The patient, unless he or she is charged with a crime, shall be asked to give express and informed consent to placement as a voluntary patient, and, if such consent is given, the patient shall be admitted as a voluntary patient; or
A petition for involuntary placement shall be filed in the circuit court when outpatient or inpatient treatment is deemed necessary. When inpatient treatment is deemed necessary, the least restrictive treatment consistent with the optimum improvement of the patient’s condition shall be made available. When a petition is to be filed for involuntary outpatient placement, it shall be filed by one of the petitioners specified in s. 394.4655(3)(a). A petition for involuntary inpatient placement shall be filed by the facility administrator.

 

[Friptzap]

Yeah I had it backwards but the above clears it all up. I always thought it was 7 days though for some reason.

Oh I know why, they force you to wait 7 days for a gun in case your crazy but only keep you in the hospital for 72 hours if they actually think your crazy.

I was thinking that because they will probably remove his firearm from the house again once he is released, if they ever gave it back. If he is not given a clean bill on the way out and place him on out patient status I believe it is also iillegal to have one in the house based on the baker act. There was something on that issue in the above link as well.

 

[ThoughtElf]

Yeah I had it backwards but the above clears it all up. I always thought it was 7 days though for some reason.

You were very close though, and it is a common misconception.

It is great that you posted the references so others can understand, as well, especially since we don't know for a fact that there isn't a further petition for George's further treatment.

 

[cajun]

I just wonder if George is not bipolar and the death of Caylee and Casey doing it has just not made it worse or brought it to the forefront. After my brother lost his son, then momma, and being married to his crazy wife, she's a lot like Cindy, it really brought on his manic depression. If he had it before all that happened, I don't know... but he never showed any of the tell tale signs before then

 

[ThoughtElf]

I just wonder if George is not bipolar and the death of Caylee and Casey doing it has just not made it worse or brought it to the forefront. After my brother lost his son, then momma, and being married to his crazy wife, she's a lot like Cindy, it really brought on his manic depression. If he had it before all that happened, I don't know... but he never showed any of the tell tale signs before then

It was reported earlier on in the case that George was bipolar. I believe a family member on George's side made that claim. It's probably here somewhere on this thread. Let me check for you.

ETA: Didn't find the reference here. I will go check the Family Psych page

 

[ThoughtElf]

I just wonder if George is not bipolar and the death of Caylee and Casey doing it has just not made it worse or brought it to the forefront. After my brother lost his son, then momma, and being married to his crazy wife, she's a lot like Cindy, it really brought on his manic depression. If he had it before all that happened, I don't know... but he never showed any of the tell tale signs before then

I can't recall who made the original reference, and I searched a few other threads without luck, so I asked another poster to drop in if they know.

The circumstances certainly would contribute towards a 'crash' especially for an unmedicated Bipolar.

ETA: The BP reference "was in Cindy's mothers emails to her sister.. I don't recall if she said George has it but I know she said George's sister has it."

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think with the circumstances surrounding this case, the docs are going to be particularly cautious with George being released. The Docs know they would be under a microscope if anything were to happen upon his release. They will err on the side of caution. It isn't only about George, but they could also lose their credibility if they do not successfully treat him and set up an adequate treatment plan for the future.

 

[CharlestonGal]

I think with the circumstances surrounding this case, the docs are going to be particularly cautious with George being released. The Docs know they would be under a microscope if anything were to happen upon his release. They will err on the side of caution. It isn't only about George, but they could also lose their credibility if they do not successfully treat him and set up an adequate treatment plan for the future.

Yes, I suspect that is exactly what's happening here. The facility doesn't want JCAHO, the AMA, and the press crawling up their behinds if George does something wonky shortly after his release. Too many eyes are watching and the hospital can't afford any slip-ups.

 

[Leila]

I can't recall who made the original reference, and I searched a few other threads without luck, so I asked another poster to drop in if they know.

The circumstances certainly would contribute towards a 'crash' especially for an unmedicated Bipolar.

ETA: The BP reference "was in Cindy's mothers emails to her sister.. I don't recall if she said George has it but I know she said George's sister has it."

I believe the bipolar reference was in regards to George's sister. It was in the emails between SP and her sister.

 

[zoey]

Yes, I suspect that is exactly what's happening here. The facility doesn't want JCAHO, the AMA, and the press crawling up their behinds if George does something wonky shortly after his release. Too many eyes are watching and the hospital can't afford any slip-ups.

he is only there until he isn't a risk to himself or others...after that it is bye-bye....unless the laws are even more flexable in Fl than here---it is hard to keep someone there without their permission....and how horrid as it sounds insurance does play a HUGE part in this whole thing....if he does have it...they want him to receive care BUT are also receiving updates & reviewing his stay....and I'm sure they are checking into discharge/outpatient/other facility programs that fit him the best

 

[LindaFaye]

What does bipolar mean