POI: Michael Pak

[deedee21]

A girl calls 911 and begs for help because someone is trying to kill her, the girl runs away, one of the guys drives off after her, the girl ends up dead, the guy leaves really quickly before the police can get there. Hmmm.

How difficult is this case to solve?

That might be the sentiment of some from the windy city and some from the streets of Long Island. Im sure theres more to it than that. Ask CPH on the QT

 

[Seajay]

If you live in a gated community, do you think the security cameras offer any security?

MOO

Only when you need it. If you are breaking the law, you don't need it so it mysteriously disappears. Gated communities are like that........

 

[Seajay]

That might be the sentiment of some from the windy city and some from the streets of Long Island. Im sure theres more to it than that. Ask CPH on the QT

Especially when screaming girl, who calls 911, stating someone is trying to kill her, being followed by a guy, is found dead behind one of the houses of a door she knocked on, then retired LE says she wasn't upset in the 911 call, she was calm. But she still ends up dead. Go figure.....

 

[deedee21]

A girl calls 911 and begs for help because someone is trying to kill her, the girl runs away, one of the guys drives off after her, the girl ends up dead, the guy leaves really quickly before the police can get there. Hmmm.

How difficult is this case to solve?

This version sounds like pages ripped out of a book.

 

[Tugela]

Especially when screaming girl, who calls 911, stating someone is trying to kill her, being followed by a guy, is found dead behind one of the houses of a door she knocked on, then retired LE says she wasn't upset in the 911 call, she was calm. But she still ends up dead. Go figure.....

Who said she was screaming?

That, I think is an extrapolation here based on her 911 call being called irrational. No one said she was screaming. She was on the phone for over 20 minutes, her life was not in danger. If it was, she would not have been on the phone for that long. If she had been on the phone screaming that someone was trying to kill her, LE would have arrived in force long before the phone call was up.

Then she runs to a neighbor, who offers to help, but she runs away again for no apparent reason. Once more, irrational paranoid behaviour.

She didn't die behind his house either.

She wasn't being "followed by a guy", the person who was her driver/security was doing what he was supposed to be doing and looking for her. He left after he couldn't find her. What was he supposed to do? He didn't know where she was, she was doing something that was likely illegal, police were going to show up (with explanations being required), and he was just an employee, not family or a friend. Of course he left. So would you. But he did come back later with the boyfriend trying to find her when she failed to show up at home.

The LE who commented on hearing the tape says she was "calm" (or whatever). He didn't say she was rational. So, nothing odd there, except that it it didn't agree with our extrapolation of the description "irrational". Ya, so, there must be something wrong because we assumed that irrational meant screaming. Well, maybe it didn't. Maybe it meant she was being incomprehensible and rambling. We didn't hear these tapes but this LE person apparently did. So it was probably the latter.

If someone is experiencing a paranoid delusional episode, perhaps high or in the process of ODing or whatever, and runs into a swamp in the dark, winding up dead is not an unreasonable outcome.

 

[Samantha Spade]

With all due respect Tugela, you state your theory as if each of your statements are facts. Do you know for certain that Shannan didn't die behind his house? Has it been determined where she died and not just where her remains were found?

You stated her life was not in danger. And we know this because she wasn't murdered while talking on the phone to a 911 Officer? Have you heard this recording? Could it be her killer or person who wanted to kill her knew she was on the phone with 911 and decided to wait, but then killed her because he would rather take the chance of LE ever finding her body than the certainty of shannan exposing his secrets. Maybe she witnessed something that scared her half to Death!? Maybe he makes his big money selling drugs. Maybe she was drugged?

maybe there were several neighbors at "the Party". knowing this, and under the effect of some drug, when she ran to GC's begging for help she could have been so terrified thinking there was another neighbor involved who wouldn't rat on his neighbors.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I know. But my scenario is no more absurd then some Nyc cop who
Likes to stalk, bake and eat women.

I am not being snarky, my intent is more aimed at challenging assumptions.

 

[WINDSOR]

IIRC - Didn't LE take the hard drive? Does anyone know what info can be taken off of it? I don't remember hearing anything more about it.:waitasec:

Yes they did, but they could not get any info off the hard drive. IIRC

 

[WINDSOR]

A girl calls 911 and begs for help because someone is trying to kill her, the girl runs away, one of the guys drives off after her, the girl ends up dead, the guy leaves really quickly before the police can get there. Hmmm.

How difficult is this case to solve?

I have been saying that for a year. If you read all the posts on this thread you will see that even more than CPH, I believe MP is the key to solving this case.

MOO

 

[Samantha Spade]

PS.

This is not easy for me to question police statements. I come from a family of three generations of men who knew since childhood that they wanted to protect and serve, who all served in the military, World war one, world war 2, and the war on the streets of Liberty City in Miami. They were at the top of their class in criminal justice and respected by their supervisors as well as their peers. All were good shots. It took me along time to come to the realization that not all cops are as professional and committed. So, now I question. Even the police.

 

[WINDSOR]

The problem was that the body was found some distance from were her belongings were. It doesn't seem very likely that someone would kill her there, then retrieve the body and go all the way around to dump it on the other side of the swamp where it is still in the same general location.

If someone local killed her, there would be a big incentive to dump the body far from where they lived.

If MP did it, again, he would have a big incentive to dump the body far away. And in any case, why would he leave stuff behind at point different from where the body was if he didn't have a chance to move everything right away?

It does not seem reasonable.

The only reasonable explanation is that she entered the swamp, got stuck or snagged at one point, dropped her belongings there and continued trying to find a way out until eventually succumbing. I don't know about LI, but where I come from being bitten by a snake and succumbing to that would be a pretty dam good possibility in a swamp.

Maybe she drowned, maybe she was high and ODed. There is no reported evidence to support foul play however.

Simple question to you Tugela since you appear to have this case solved.

Where did SG enter the marsh, which direction was she going, and what was her destination? Realize the drugs' impact would be wearing off by 5:30AM when she entered the marsh, so she likely not under the influence.

BTW I do not believe there are poisonous water snakes in that marsh.

 

[Justiceforever]

If someone slipped her a tab of acid (lsd), without her knowledge or consent, she certainly might think "they" were trying to kill her! Also the effects of lsd don't stop for @ 8-12 hours. Do they test for lsd normally? If she had been given some, would it still have been in her system?

 

[OnTheCase27]

Simple question to you Tugela since you appear to have this case solved.

Where did SG enter the marsh, which direction was she going, and what was her destination? Realize the drugs' impact would be wearing off by 5:30AM when she entered the marsh, so she likely not under the influence.

BTW I do not believe there are poisonous water snakes in that marsh.

Since no one here knows if she was on any drugs, or if she was under the influence of drugs what drug it was than how can you say it would be wearing off? Not all drugs are on a strict time frame and many have lasting effects even after the main symptoms wear off. The impact of the drug also depends on how you ingest the drug.

 

[PreciousDust]

BTW I do not believe there are poisonous water snakes in that marsh.

You're right. There's three venomous snakes that inhabit New York state - the Northern Copperhead, the Eastern Massasauga, and the Timber Rattlesnake; if you click on the link for each below, you'll see that none of them are on Long Island:
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7483.html

Do they test for lsd normally? If she had been given some, would it still have been in her system?

No, and no. People can also experience hallucinations and display psychotic behavior from (among other things) eating mushrooms, ingesting angel dust, or not adhering to their prescribed medication dosage. SG could have been unknowingly drugged, but as a confirmed drug user she could also have been doing any of those things voluntarily.

 

[NoviceSleuth]

A girl calls 911 and begs for help because someone is trying to kill her, the girl runs away, one of the guys drives off after her, the girl ends up dead, the guy leaves really quickly before the police can get there. Hmmm.

How difficult is this case to solve?

What happened after "one (?) of the guys drives off after her" and "the girl ends up dead" is an important missing puzzle part in solving this case. Barbara Brennen is key and her residence is located in the perfect location to have witnessed if anyone was following SG, (car, van or on foot), any other traffic, what direction SG went after ringing her doorbell, did SG enter the marsh, what was SG wearing, was anyone else seen outside around that time, etc. Also it might be important to know if Barbara Brennen received any phone calls, visitors or spoke to anyone before and after she called 911. Very little is reported about BB that morning and what she witnessed. Also, did LE receive any 911 calls other than from BB and GC? In addition, did anyone try to contact her in person, by mail, over the phone or internet in the hours, days or months following May 2, 2010?

This case is proving very difficult to solve and obtaining info or getting any answers. IMOO

 

[WINDSOR]

The point I was making regarding the drugs wearing off, it is my understanding that most popular recreational drugs in use today are relatively fast acting (again given the dose level), and their effects clear relatively quickly. Now I am not a pharmacologist, so I do not know exact details as such. As to LSD I understand that drug is out of style today, and very rare.

What I am trying to say if SG was lucid enough to run away from GC's house and down Anchor Way past BB's house, she must have some idea where she was trying go. She was not walking aimlessly and haphazardly in a drug/alcohol stupor. She was following the road. If she is not walking under the influence of drugs, she must have a goal or purpose, based on her actions at GC's it was to avoid MP.

To then say someplace past BB's house, she stopped, turned left and entered the marsh, and then traveled about 1000 feet to her final resting place, and on this journey she removed considerable clothing (at a place unknown because the water and wind moved them) is a real stretch.

Now if you were to consider, that SG's journey ended at a house or in a vehicle past BB's home. Now consider at some time in no particular sequence she was incapacitated, clothing removed, clothing dumped and body dumped. Remember the body was found quite close to the Parkway, a vehicle stops, the body is dropped and the vehicle goes on.


Now remember what MP has said, he was following SG and she disappeared.

If I were MP that night and wanted to catch SG, but I did not want anybody to know I caught here what would I say?

1) I was following her but she disappeared.
2) I caught her and put her in my car.
3) I had no problem following her from JB's house all the way to GC's, short stretch of road, but on the longer straight stretch of Anchor Way, all the way past BB's house but I could not see her, or catch SG.

I do not think SG got away from MP, he either caught her, or she made it to some house past BB's.

If you disregard what MP said and look at the likely what happened, you can come to your own conclusion

Oh for those of you who believe just past BB's house, SG jumped int the marsh to avoid being seen by MP, yes that could have happened, but once she saw MP turn around and leave again, she would have got back on the road and continued to her destination, just like you or I.

CPH has stated he was interviewed by LE several times. I am curious why after first visit to CPH when, no doubt CPH said, 'he never met SG, 'never treated her', why they would come back one or more times to interview him.

It sure would be interesting to know why the detectives were not satisfied after the first interview?

Would it not be bizarre if the CVS had a prescription record for SG, from Dr.CPH. NOTE, this last sentence is not based on fact, and is a speculation based on other sleuthers theory that when SG was with JB they went to CVS to buy some items.

Who has checked CVS's records?


MOO

 

[Tugela]

With all due respect Tugela, you state your theory as if each of your statements are facts. Do you know for certain that Shannan didn't die behind his house? Has it been determined where she died and not just where her remains were found?

You stated her life was not in danger. And we know this because she wasn't murdered while talking on the phone to a 911 Officer? Have you heard this recording? Could it be her killer or person who wanted to kill her knew she was on the phone with 911 and decided to wait, but then killed her because he would rather take the chance of LE ever finding her body than the certainty of shannan exposing his secrets. Maybe she witnessed something that scared her half to Death!? Maybe he makes his big money selling drugs. Maybe she was drugged?

maybe there were several neighbors at "the Party". knowing this, and under the effect of some drug, when she ran to GC's begging for help she could have been so terrified thinking there was another neighbor involved who wouldn't rat on his neighbors.

Maybe, maybe, maybe. I know. But my scenario is no more absurd then some Nyc cop who
Likes to stalk, bake and eat women.

I am not being snarky, my intent is more aimed at challenging assumptions.

I don't need to hear the recording to know her life was not in danger. She was on the phone with 911 for over 20 minutes, in the presence of the people who were there. It is common sense that her life was not in danger. Anyone threatening her would have taken the phone from her or terminated the call.

As to where she died, she obviously did not die at the clients house, or anywhere along the way, because there were at least 3 reports to the police as she made her way to the swamp. That leaves the swamp. IMO she either died where her stuff was and the body subsequently floated to the final location, or she dropped the stuff after getting mired to free herself, and died where the body was found. There is a time line which is clearly established which points directly to the place her belongings were found, and by inference on to where her body was found. There is no mystery here, just the exact details are uncertain.

It seems to me to be highly improbable that someone in the neighborhood would kill her allmost in their backyard when they knew police were likely on the way, then move the body to another point close by while leaving the belongings somewhere else. That simply does not add up. Given the choice between a probable scenario and an improbable sceanrio, I am going to lean to the former.

Why would she run to a neighbors house for help, then run away because a neighbor lived there? That argument doesn't make sense.

 

[PreciousDust]

Would it not be bizarre if the CVS had a prescription record for SG, from Dr.CPH. NOTE, this last sentence is not based on fact, and is a speculation based on other sleuthers theory that when SG was with JB they went to CVS to buy some items.

I don't think you need to point out that it's not based on fact - everyone knows there's nothing at all to suggest that SG and JB actually went to CVS. As far as I know, the only mention of CVS came from MP, who said that he turned down SG's request to go there. Any sleuther who has a theory that the trip happened would have to take MP at his word that SG and JB went somewhere unspecified for 15 minutes, and leave aside the fact that it would take longer than that to get to CVS and back, even if burning rubber the whole way. Considering that JB was high on coke, and SG was a coke user, and no sex allegedly occurred during their lengthy meeting, I'm going to guess that, if any trip happened at all, it was to buy some coke from someone in Oak Beach.

 

[Tugela]

The point I was making regarding the drugs wearing off, it is my understanding that most popular recreational drugs in use today are relatively fast acting (again given the dose level), and their effects clear relatively quickly. Now I am not a pharmacologist, so I do not know exact details as such. As to LSD I understand that drug is out of style today, and very rare.

If she was taking opiates in tablet form the effect would take some time to kick in and would peak quite a bit later than initial ingestion. Tablets are designed to act that way, so they release drug slowly rather than as a big spike.

So, if she had taken multiple drugs and/or alcohol, and got an adverse reaction, the opiates kicking in over time could have caused an OD situation when she was stuck in the swamp.

 

[Tugela]

What I am trying to say if SG was lucid enough to run away from GC's house and down Anchor Way past BB's house, she must have some idea where she was trying go. She was not walking aimlessly and haphazardly in a drug/alcohol stupor. She was following the road. If she is not walking under the influence of drugs, she must have a goal or purpose, based on her actions at GC's it was to avoid MP.

If someone is acting on a natural or drug induced psychotic break, they are entirely capable of acting with purpose, even if it is totally irrational.

The purpose of using a drug is not to put yourself to sleep, it is to distort reality, and when that happens the person using them is capable of doing crazy, irrational acts.

For instance, all these "bath-salt" cases we hear about, such as a while back when that naked guy attacked a homeless person and started eating him before the cops shot him.

 

[Redbird]

If someone is acting on a natural or drug induced psychotic break, they are entirely capable of acting with purpose, even if it is totally irrational.

The purpose of using a drug is not to put yourself to sleep, it is to distort reality, and when that happens the person using them is capable of doing crazy, irrational acts.

For instance, all these "bath-salt" cases we hear about, such as a while back when that naked guy attacked a homeless person and started eating him before the cops shot him.

IMO this is all wild speculation.