POLL ADDED Connect The Dots-Working theories thread #2

[mmmagique]

I wanted to vote it was planned, Terri planned it alone, but called Dede for help with something after. But that's not an option.

ETA: My other theory is that Mike Cook was involved. The way he jumped into sexting with his friend's wife, how quickly he set up a website for Kyron, and began talking about selling bracelettes. (I think Kaine put a stop to the website, and MC gave or sold the bracelettes to Kaine.)

 

[tragco]

Wonder if anyone in the Horman / Moulton / Young family is diabetic? Or a close friend? Or perhaps a pet? Or a horse? (lol, just had to swing back 'round to the horse farm)

Can you expand on this if you get the time? I am not sure what you are saying... unless you mean some kind of insulin overdose could have been used? Would that be able to put a child out of commission?

Thank you!

 

[SmoothOperator]

I wanted to vote it was planned, Terri planned it alone, but called Dede for help with something after. But that's not an option.

ETA: My other theory is that Mike Cook was involved. The way he jumped into sexting with his friend's wife, how quickly he set up a website for Kyron, and began talking about selling bracelettes. (I think Kaine put a stop to the website, and MC gave or sold the bracelettes to Kaine.)

This too is what would have been my exact vote if it had been an option[I opted for the closest IMO which had Dede involved from the planning stage] But my strong intuition is that Dede did NOT play a "key"/"main" player role but rather a more after-the-fact role.

I have attempted to play around with different scenarios attempting to put Dede in a much bigger role but thus far going on instincts and the very little that IS KNOWN I just cannot make it work[for me]with her being in the pre-planning and executing phases of ANY scenario thus far...

Of course given the fact that we somehow, someway are offered a few other tiny morsels of the events that occurred in/and around June 4th that very well could change because one thing that is NOT adding up for me where Dede Spicher is concerned is the fact that she is not testifying to what she knows happened[and before anyone "corrects" me this is as far as what we know, as in she went before the GJ and was in and out in10mins flat w/ the notion of being called back in at some point]

So, if not involved why not going before the GJ just as everyone else has and state all that you know about the day of June 4th or anything involving what happened on June 4th[this IMPO makes Kaine/Desiree's claims that she is not cooperating and telling anything about the details of that specific info{and I do not take what they say as the"absolute truth" of the matter, due to the high level of emotion involved, but what little we know of Dede's coop IMO it does seem to lean toward exactly what they are stating to be the case with Dede}]

So, why? Why would she not be open, honest and forthcoming having herself marked quickly off of the list as the other "batphone" girlfriends were, yet not only does she NOT get marked off the list but she ENDS UP on the new flier with friend Terri and the infamous Horman white truck? This is what makes me think her role COULD BE POSSIBLY larger than what my intuition is feeling that it is.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

ETA: My other theory is that Mike Cook was involved. The way he jumped into sexting with his friend's wife, how quickly he set up a website for Kyron, and began talking about selling bracelettes. (I think Kaine put a stop to the website, and MC gave or sold the bracelettes to Kaine.)

I'm not sure about Mike Cook. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt because some people are like that: They are eager to help even people they haven't had contact with when there is Big Trouble. I can't fault him for that because the family did need help. I think he overreached when he set up the website, but with good intentions.

OTOH, sexting KH's wife is not eagerly helping. The only way that could be an innocent action, under the guise of helpfulness, is if MC fancied himself to be one of the Hardy Boys, acting undercover (so to speak, LOL) to try to get close to TH to get information about Kyron.

There are people who just don't get social cues and so forth, and have no clue that their innocent actions will be misinterpreted by others. I've met a few; that's why I'm not sure MC is a Bad Actor in this drama.

 

[RoughlyCollie]

Lately, I've been wondering if TH absconded with Kyron because she hates DY. That hate could have been festering all these years. She could hate DY for a lot of things that we know nothing about, simply because DY is KH's former wife and Kyron's mother.

Hate (not merely dislike) is a strong emotion, and it does fester and get stronger the more someone resents the target. I know, because I used to feel hate from time to time towards my ex-husband's first wife. She is the only person I have ever hated, and I didn't like feeling like that. I hated her because: (1) We paid a lot of child support and the kids didn't show it -- but she always had new clothes and wore them when she dropped off the kids, and was free to spend money on herself. If we'd had more money we'd have spent it on the kids freely, but we were always strapped for cash. (2) She didn't respond the way I thought she should when her young daughter (5th grader) tried to kill herself. (3) She didn't respond the way I thought she should when her daughters started acting very oddly aside from the suicide attempt (it turned out their mother's live-in boyfriend was molesting one of them). (4) My MIL, for the first few years, used to tell me she wished my ex would remarry the girls' mother so the girls wouldn't grow up in a broken home. (5) The girls' mother asked my ex to remarry her after I was already engaged to my ex. (6) The girls' mother always asked my ex to help her when she was between boyfriends and needed a man's help (not pertaining directly to the kids). (7) We couldn't afford to have a child because of paying her so much child support, money which she wasted by being a spendthrift.

Oddly, when I called the girls' mother to tell her I was divorcing our ex-husband, we had a long talk and my feelings of hate for her went away, thank God. For me, it turned out that I was projecting my feelings about my ex-husband onto her. I mean, he could have manned up and solved all of these problems, but I couldn't blame him (for whatever reason; this is not logical, it's emotional). He was the Golden Boy and She was To Blame.

Meanwhile, during our courtship and marriage, all of the adults got along just fine. We tried hard to make it work for the benefit of the kids, and I was always conscious that she had the harder job -- being a single, custodial parent is a lot harder than paying child support & taking the kids every other weekend.

That meant I had to swallow my objections, for years, to anything I thought was harmful to the kids -- because I was *only* the stepmother.

So, that made my hate and frustration fester.

Of course, I did nothing to harm my stepdaughters. If I had retaliated by doing something to get back at the girls' mother for her sins (real and projected by me), I figure I would have had to have something wrong upstairs: a personality disorder, for instance.

So I think TH, if she did this heinous act, did it to hurt DY, or both KH and DY (especially if the MFH plot is true). Kyron's parents can appear before the cameras and accuse her and cry and she will not bend because this gives her satisfaction, or she thought it would. Of course, the overriding reason she isn't saying what happened to Kyron, if she knows anything, is to prevent herself from having to move to a prison.

If TH did this, only.

 

[Morag]

...SNIP... one thing that is NOT adding up for me where Dede Spicher is concerned is the fact that she is not testifying to what she knows happened[and before anyone "corrects" me this is as far as what we know, as in she went before the GJ and was in and out in10mins flat w/ the notion of being called back in at some point]

So, if not involved why not going before the GJ just as everyone else has and state all that you know about the day of June 4th or anything involving what happened on June 4th[this IMPO makes Kaine/Desiree's claims that she is not cooperating and telling anything about the details of that specific info{and I do not take what they say as the"absolute truth" of the matter, due to the high level of emotion involved, but what little we know of Dede's coop IMO it does seem to lean toward exactly what they are stating to be the case with Dede}]

So, why? Why would she not be open, honest and forthcoming having herself marked quickly off of the list as the other "batphone" girlfriends were, yet not only does she NOT get marked off the list but she ENDS UP on the new flier with friend Terri and the infamous Horman white truck? This is what makes me think her role COULD BE POSSIBLY larger than what my intuition is feeling that it is.

Whether DeDe has testified before the GJ or not, we do not know. But apparently she has spent a good many hours talking with LE.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413527,00.html?xid=rss-topheadlines

Spicher says she's told police the same thing. "They wanted me to tell them that Terri did it or that Terri knew something," she says. "I told them everything that I knew, over and over again. But I didn't tell them what they wanted to hear."

 

[Aedrys]

I've been doing some thinking about this case last night and this morning about motivation on Terri's part. I used to think that if Terri did this, it was specifically to hurt Kaine or get back at Kaine. And I still think that to a certain extent. But as I was thinking, a few things occurred to me.

One thing that has come out is that Terri may have thought Kaine was having an affair. What if this "affair" wasn't a real affair? What if this affair was an exaggeration of the relationship Kaine was having with Desiree? I know we're not allowed to sleuth them. But it's always struck me as odd how well they get along, and how much they seem to agree about Terri. I still admire that they get along, don't get me wrong on that. I don't suspect them.

I just wonder if Kaine was getting along well with Desiree, but giving Terri the cold shoulder as their marriage was falling apart. Would that anger Terri enough to want to get back at him? I know if my husband was getting along swimmingly with his ex, but was treating me like crap, I would definitely think something was up, maybe even an affair between them.

I wonder if that was part of her motivation, and then something else. Maybe Kyron did find out something, like a plot against his dad, or something else that would make Terri look bad and any future divorce end badly for her, or any future chances at a job look bad for her.

And the biggest thing I wonder is if she was more worried about what Kyron might say to Desiree and Tony than Kaine. Maybe she felt that she had control of him at their house, and that he wouldn't tell Kaine anything. But maybe she worried more what he might say to Desiree and Tony, and if Kaine was getting along better with Desiree than Terri, if they chose to tell him what Kyron told them and he believed it, that would only make things worse for Terri in the end. After all, the DAY Kyron was supposed to go to Desiree and Tony's, he disappeared. That can't just be a coincidence.

And the day he was supposed to go them, there was the science fair. What perfect way to get rid of him, blame the school and win a lawsuit, and keep whatever secret it was that he found out away from Kaine, Desiree, and Tony, AND get back at Kaine and Desiree for having such a better relationship than Terri and Kaine were having.

So in sum, Terri couldn't stand how well Kaine and Desiree were getting along, exaggerates that into an affair in her mind and maybe to other people when she talks about it, and then Kyron finds out something he shouldn't, and she decides he has to die to protect her secret from his bio parents, and at the same time, she'd get back at those bio parents and the school that won't give her a job because of her DUI.

I do think family dynamics will play into this. I think a lot of what we don't know is family stuff that just hasn't been talked about yet. I think it's going to play largely into what happened to Kyron.

 

[cf0319]

Is it possible for someone to post links to the pictures of Kyron's vigil? I can only find a small group on photobucket and the Oregonian site, and I wanted to use one to illustrate my theory. It won't make sense without the picture.

 

[cf0319]

Is it possible for someone to post links to the pictures of Kyron's vigil? I can only find a small group on photobucket and the Oregonian site, and I wanted to use one to illustrate my theory. It won't make sense without the picture.

Also, is there any chance that Kyron has been found and police aren't telling? I only ask because Desiree did not seem as distressed in the latest conferences as she was early on, and she also seemed very optimistic about Kyron being alive. Does anyone know if LE ever significantly delays releasing news of a recovery in order to put pressure on a suspect?

 

[debs]

Also, is there any chance that Kyron has been found and police aren't telling? I only ask because Desiree did not seem as distressed in the latest conferences as she was early on, and she also seemed very optimistic about Kyron being alive. Does anyone know if LE ever significantly delays releasing news of a recovery in order to put pressure on a suspect?

I don't know about LE keeping such information secret but if, as you theorize, that Desiree might have been told such a thing (which I don't believe), she and Kaine would be charged with fraud for holding fundraisers.

 

[mmmagique]

Also, is there any chance that Kyron has been found and police aren't telling? I only ask because Desiree did not seem as distressed in the latest conferences as she was early on, and she also seemed very optimistic about Kyron being alive. Does anyone know if LE ever significantly delays releasing news of a recovery in order to put pressure on a suspect?

BBM

I respectfully but strongly disagree. This is a woman on the edge. She is strong, because she has to be, for her missing son, her other son, her husband and herself, but that does not mean she is not as distressed. If anything, I'd say she's even more distressed.

They (Kaine and Desiree) may however, be more reconciled that the outcome may not be as they would like it to be.

 

[cluciano63]

I didn't think Desiree seemed at all more optimistic about Kyron being alive...just angry and determined to find out what happened. I think she is still clinging to the possibility that he is alive but I hope that both she and Kaine are being counseled professionally in a way to help prepare them for other outcomes.

Also I can't see any reason LE would hide the fact that Kyron had been found, if he was. And a good point about the fundraisers...

Sorry, all this is OT. I am possibly more and more alone in thinking this, but I still feel we have a one-person crime here...either Terri or an unknown predator. Trying to fit other people into the crime only seems to have come after LE had examined her timeline upside down and sideways and could not find enough room in it for her to have acted alone. She would have had to communicate with these "helpers" and at least one of them would now have to be "missing" in order to be caring for Kyron. Who and where is this missing adult associate of Terri's? He/she would be in her phone history-apparently the LS was and we know MC was. She was not careful with her phone.

 

[seeking truth]

I don't know about LE keeping such information secret but if, as you theorize, that Desiree might have been told such a thing (which I don't believe), she and Kaine would be charged with fraud for holding fundraisers.

The fundraisers are for the Multnomah County Sheriffs.

 

[seeking truth]

On a day when it is just Terri and Kyron and baby K, the suspicion would fall right on her. When people say things like "she didn't expect people to figure it out" etc, that's what they're talking about.

I may not be following correctly, but Terri, if she is responsible, and I beleive that she is, made sure (or thought she did) that she was NOT in charge of Kyron at the time she claims he was abducted, lost, or whatever mysterious tragedy befell him.

She went to great lengths to try and distance herself from him, and the school, that morning and ever since. Clearly her stories are not ringing true, they have not proved to be true, and that is why she is the focus of this investigation. It is clear (to me, anyway) that she intended for people to believe that he had been "lost" at school, or "kidnapped" from the school, and that it happened while Kyron was NOT under her care.

These are my OPINIONS.

 

[debs]

I may not be following correctly, but Terri, if she is responsible, and I beleive that she is, made sure (or thought she did) that she was NOT in charge of Kyron at the time she claims he was abducted, lost, or whatever mysterious tragedy befell him.

She went to great lengths to try and distance herself from him, and the school, that morning and ever since. Clearly her stories are not ringing true, they have not proved to be true, and that is why she is the focus of this investigation. It is clear (to me, anyway) that she intended for people to believe that he had been "lost" at school, or "kidnapped" from the school, and that it happened while Kyron was NOT under her care.

These are my OPINIONS.

Which was what was supposed and wondered about, and to which I replied.

 

[Beatrice]

I have wondered if Kyron started saying to Terri "your not my mother"
and possibly because of her own issues with being adopted, she snapped.

Didn't Kaine or Desiree say that right before Kyron went missing that he was having difficulty in obeying authority of adults....

 

[PDXMom]

Also, is there any chance that Kyron has been found and police aren't telling? I only ask because Desiree did not seem as distressed in the latest conferences as she was early on, and she also seemed very optimistic about Kyron being alive. Does anyone know if LE ever significantly delays releasing news of a recovery in order to put pressure on a suspect?

I wish that were the case. I've thought that off and on throughout, because Kaine and Desiree seems so confident. Of course they've had 3 months to get used to their "new normal" :-( Regarding your post, wouldn't finding Kyron and publicizing it far and wide be the pressure that breaks Terri's back? She'd have nowhere to go then but to jail (assuming she did it). And, if alive, he could tell all. If not, forensics would tell a lot.

 

[Billylee]

The sex offender's name is Ned Lyle Kelley, age 47, who is now missing and should have been still in jail (ridiculous given his offenses listed in the article posted above in this thread).

A neighbor of Skyline Elementary (not of the Horman's) named Jim Kelley, age 50 gave a small interview on June 6th to the Oregonian. What he said I have posted below.

This is from the Oregonian/Oregon Live dated June 6th (Kyron disappeared on June 4th):

"1:29 p.m. -- Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. "This kind of thing is unheard of," says Jim Kelley, 50.

Kelley, who lives about a mile and a half down hill, at the end of a winding, secluded country lane off Cornelius Pass, said police, federal agents, K-9 teams and helicopters scoured the area Saturday.

"We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday," Kelley said. Around 3 p.m., he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.

"A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn't know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing," said Kelley. "That's beyond rare."
Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot."
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/i...inues_hun.html

Wouldn't think they are related in any way?

ETA~
Also, from what I seem to be reading on various sex offender sites...Ned Lyle Kelley (the wanted sex offender) appears to be homeless and has no vehicle to speak of.

http://www.homefacts.com/offender-de...le-Kelley.html

Last known location according to the above link was: HOMELESS SE SIDE HAWTHORNE BRDG PORTLAND, OR 97209.

http://www.sunschools.org/Public/Ent...003bc614acRCRD

FYI here is Ned Kelley's flier from the MCSO RSO site:

http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/Public/EntryPoint?ct=4137ca0c4a281210VgnVCM1000003bc614acRCRD#summary


It says he's "WANTED" as in missing. I reviewed that site a lot when Kyron first disappeared. I don't recall this guy being listed as WANTED then, but I could be mistaken, does anyone remember? Also, it says he is 57 not 47. (or 58, cuz I can't see the month he was born for some reason it's cut off my computer) It also lists a license plate # for a vehicle, so I'm guessing he's not homeless and that he does drive.

Also, I'm guessing since it says page created Feb 2010, that is when he registered in MC, and because it says page updated August 2010, that's when he went missing? Wonder what he's running from now?

 

[wondering1]

FYI here is Ned Kelley's flier from the MCSO RSO site:

http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/Public/EntryPoint?ct=4137ca0c4a281210VgnVCM1000003bc614acRCRD#summary


It says he's "WANTED" as in missing. I reviewed that site a lot when Kyron first disappeared. I don't recall this guy being listed as WANTED then, but I could be mistaken, does anyone remember? Also, it says he is 57 not 47. (or 58, cuz I can't see the month he was born for some reason it's cut off my computer) It also lists a license plate # for a vehicle, so I'm guessing he's not homeless and that he does drive.

Also, I'm guessing since it says page created Feb 2010, that is when he registered in MC, and because it says page updated August 2010, that's when he went missing? Wonder what he's running from now?

If you google his name and the words ironoutlaw and auto body, you'll see a poster on the ironoutlaw website identifying himself in a way that is consistent with this person (i.e., as an ex-con in certain states, etc.). The poster claims to have been working at an auto body shop in Portland, at least as of 2/09. I guess he shares a name with a very famous Australian outlaw of yesteryear. Just fwiw...

 

[Jade2010]

FYI here is Ned Kelley's flier from the MCSO RSO site:

http://www2.co.multnomah.or.us/Public/EntryPoint?ct=4137ca0c4a281210VgnVCM1000003bc614acRCRD#summary


It says he's "WANTED" as in missing. I reviewed that site a lot when Kyron first disappeared. I don't recall this guy being listed as WANTED then, but I could be mistaken, does anyone remember? Also, it says he is 57 not 47. (or 58, cuz I can't see the month he was born for some reason it's cut off my computer) It also lists a license plate # for a vehicle, so I'm guessing he's not homeless and that he does drive.

Also, I'm guessing since it says page created Feb 2010, that is when he registered in MC, and because it says page updated August 2010, that's when he went missing? Wonder what he's running from now?

First, I didn't realize that they had CAUGHT Ned Kelley.

http://www.kptv.com/news/24844743/detail.html

Second, wow, one clean cut photo and one messy photo. I don't know if I would caught on immediately that they were the same man.