Poll - If you were on the Jury today

[CarrieSis]

It's easy to hate KC. She's a [insert horrible name here]. She lies. She's disrespectful to her parents. She appears to have been a crappy mom. She appears to be vain and shallow. She's screwed over every person she's come into contact with in one way or another. Do I hate her? Sure, she's a [insert horrible name here].

We don't kill people for that.

It really scares me to see how many people want to kill her - the death penalty - when we have so little to go on between "Caylee was alive" and "Caylee's body was in the trunk". We know the former, and they can prove the latter and everything following it IMO, I have no questions regarding that. But very little, if anything, can even be guessed at regarding how she died. It just kills me that we may NEVER know.

I keep coming back to the duct tape reports. "Before decomposition occured". That's what's in the report. That's what they "know" or hope to prove. I haven't seen anything else and to put someone to death should require more than that.

Chloroform? It's possible I missed it, but I haven't seen evidence that Caylee was exposed to it. We have evidence that the trunk was exposed to it. We have evidence that Caylee was in the trunk. We don't have evidence of when the former occured or if they happened in conjunction or not.

When I'm asked "hey, if you were on the jury, how would you vote?" - I think it's important, no matter how distasteful the defendant or their lawyer, to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. I can FEEL like they are guilty and I'd be glad to see them suffer for it, but if I don't think it's proven, I can't vote that way even if it's how I feel.

Yes, I'm an idealist. And yes, I can compartmentalize that much. And yes, I'm scared that if I am ever accused of any crime that I won't be afforded those same ideals.

/not on the defense team
//I'm sure WS admin can prove that, if they would like. I have nothing to hide.

 

[Whome?]

It's easy to hate KC. She's a [insert horrible name here]. She lies. She's disrespectful to her parents. She appears to have been a crappy mom. She appears to be vain and shallow. She's screwed over every person she's come into contact with in one way or another. Do I hate her? Sure, she's a [insert horrible name here].

We don't kill people for that.

It really scares me to see how many people want to kill her - the death penalty - when we have so little to go on between "Caylee was alive" and "Caylee's body was in the trunk". We know the former, and they can prove the latter and everything following it IMO, I have no questions regarding that. But very little, if anything, can even be guessed at regarding how she died. It just kills me that we may NEVER know.

I keep coming back to the duct tape reports. "Before decomposition occured". That's what's in the report. That's what they "know" or hope to prove. I haven't seen anything else and to put someone to death should require more than that.

Chloroform? It's possible I missed it, but I haven't seen evidence that Caylee was exposed to it. We have evidence that the trunk was exposed to it. We have evidence that Caylee was in the trunk. We don't have evidence of when the former occured or if they happened in conjunction or not.

When I'm asked "hey, if you were on the jury, how would you vote?" - I think it's important, no matter how distasteful the defendant or their lawyer, to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. I can FEEL like they are guilty and I'd be glad to see them suffer for it, but if I don't think it's proven, I can't vote that way even if it's how I feel.

Yes, I'm an idealist. And yes, I can compartmentalize that much. And yes, I'm scared that if I am ever accused of any crime that I won't be afforded those same ideals.

/not on the defense team
//I'm sure WS admin can prove that, if they would like. I have nothing to hide.

Thank you for your honesty, As one of the people who voted for the D/P I respect your opinion. However, I feel as strongly about this,as you do about your opinion. One thing I do know for sure, ICA was the last person to be seen with Caylee. Another thing is certain, Caylee did not walk down the street put herself in double bags and lay in an open field,with duct tape over her face. IMHO to take the life of an innocent child is deplorable. If ICA had confessed initially "It was an accident" in the pool or whatever,I would have more sympathy for her,thinking that accidents do/and can occur with children,but to continually lie about the death of your child,to party and have a good time, I'm sorry,the same concern and regard she gave her daughter,is the same concern and regard I have chose to give to her,via my vote for the D/P. I hope we have occasion to agree on another matter on W/S,and I look forward to posting with you again.:twocents: :innocent:

 

[Softail]

It's easy to hate KC. She's a [insert horrible name here]. She lies. She's disrespectful to her parents. She appears to have been a crappy mom. She appears to be vain and shallow. She's screwed over every person she's come into contact with in one way or another. Do I hate her? Sure, she's a [insert horrible name here].

We don't kill people for that.

snipped for space....

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Just as you have your opinions, I feel pretty confident in mine. Based on everything that has been released that I have read or seen, I do vote for DP. I wouldn't even care much if she got Life. Either or works for me.

The thing about murder cases, is that there usually are no witnesses and most cases are "circumstantial". It is putting all of the evidence together, that determines the verdict.

You mentioned that "we have so little to go on". I disagree. To me there is overwhelming evidence to prove without a shadow of a doubt that Casey Anthony murdered Caylee Anthony. IMO of course.

The great thing about posting here is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. So, thank you for sharing yours. I will also add, that IMO - nobody here came to whatever decision they did lightly. If you read through some of this thread, there are alot of people that really had to dig deep, and really THINK about their decision. :twocents:

At the end of the day, it really doesn't even matter what anyone here thinks. It will only matter to the 12 people sitting on that jury.

 

[Solace]

It's easy to hate KC. She's a [insert horrible name here]. She lies. She's disrespectful to her parents. She appears to have been a crappy mom. She appears to be vain and shallow. She's screwed over every person she's come into contact with in one way or another. Do I hate her? Sure, she's a [insert horrible name here].

We don't kill people for that.

It really scares me to see how many people want to kill her - the death penalty - when we have so little to go on between "Caylee was alive" and "Caylee's body was in the trunk". We know the former, and they can prove the latter and everything following it IMO, I have no questions regarding that. But very little, if anything, can even be guessed at regarding how she died. It just kills me that we may NEVER know.

I keep coming back to the duct tape reports. "Before decomposition occured". That's what's in the report. That's what they "know" or hope to prove. I haven't seen anything else and to put someone to death should require more than that.

Chloroform? It's possible I missed it, but I haven't seen evidence that Caylee was exposed to it. We have evidence that the trunk was exposed to it. We have evidence that Caylee was in the trunk. We don't have evidence of when the former occured or if they happened in conjunction or not.

When I'm asked "hey, if you were on the jury, how would you vote?" - I think it's important, no matter how distasteful the defendant or their lawyer, to remember that everyone is presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. I can FEEL like they are guilty and I'd be glad to see them suffer for it, but if I don't think it's proven, I can't vote that way even if it's how I feel.

Yes, I'm an idealist. And yes, I can compartmentalize that much. And yes, I'm scared that if I am ever accused of any crime that I won't be afforded those same ideals.

/not on the defense team
//I'm sure WS admin can prove that, if they would like. I have nothing to hide.

Carrie,

Who said you were on the defense team or even thought that.

The child, per KC, went missing June 16th.

The child was in the trunk and removed by June 19th (they know this because of the type of fly they found on the paper towels in the trunk - the one with the coffin fly leg and pupae and eggs - this fly comes ONLY in Stage 1 of decomposition.

The only person driving the car at that time is KC. If what the state has in its arsenal is 'so little to go on" then I can't imagine what you would consider evidence, but anyway.

If you need more than that, check wftv AND any time now Judge Perry will rule on whether the state's expert Dr. Vass will be allowed to testify - he says there were fatty acids in the trunk consistent with stage 1 of decomposition. He says he found chlorofom on the rug that amounted to 10,000 times what he would expect from decompositon (which is 8 times the norm).

I am not even giving you the 31 days and all the other bs that comes with KC.

I don't believe she will get the DP. I think she will get LWOP - and she does deserve that.

 

[CarrieSis]

I consider everything you listed to be evidence. It can and does prove her guilty of a few things that I listed, and maybe more that I don't know exists under Florida law. Nail her for everything they legally can, yes. Definitely.

I would need some evidence that Caylee was exposed to chloroform if the state is going to argue that is what she died of. Also, in order for it to be murder, I would need to see some evidence that KC got or made the chloroform for the intent of killing Caylee. I would like the state to show no existing cleaning products that the Anthony's had access to (professional or otherwise) could not reasonably be expected to form any chloroform within the trunk. Given what happens to chloroform when it is exposed to sunlight, I am also curious as to the absence of a particular chemical within the trunk.

If chloroform was in the trunk previous to the decompositional chemical signatures, secondary and tertiary chemical reactions and new chemical signatures would have formed from them being exposed to each other. That is one way that the time period of when the chloroform was introduced to the trunk could be narrowed down. Although I have not yet seen this, I hope it will be part of the state's evidence. The reverse is also true, if the defense can show that the chloroform remaining so pure after 2.6 days of decompositional signatures being present, 27 days of being driven around, cleaned out, and stored in a junk yard might argue against the same thing.

Likewise, if the state is going to say that she died from the duct tape and that it was not applied after death to simulate a kidnapping, I need to see more than that the tape was applied before decomposition. It does not say it was applied before death, it says before decomp. I'm not even sure what I would want to see to convict of murder 1 on this possibility because there is so much that there will be no evidence from (soft tissues, etc) due to the remains being skeletal once found. But the burden of proof is on the state, not on the defense.

The state has to prove not only that KC drove around with Caylee's body or that she was in possession of the car, they need to prove that she actually killed her, intentionally.

Circ. Ev. is all fine and good, so long as the chain of events is as complete as possible and that it is not equally explained by other events. At this point, the defense could argue that Caylee died accidentally and every single thing listed could be explained down to the One Tree Hill/ Nanny stole my baby crap/KC is a four letter word sociopath.

I do hope there is more we haven't seen, or testimony from the experts during trial that will reveal something I've missed -with 17000+ pages, I'm sure there's something! I look forward to trial to see what, out of the documents we've seen, is admitted and which angle the state pursues. Too bad for KC she chose what appears to be ineffective counsel - or they really are smarter than they appear and are playing stupid for now. I kinda doubt that.

 

[LinasK]

I consider everything you listed to be evidence. It can and does prove her guilty of a few things that I listed, and maybe more that I don't know exists under Florida law. Nail her for everything they legally can, yes. Definitely.

I would need some evidence that Caylee was exposed to chloroform if the state is going to argue that is what she died of. Also, in order for it to be murder, I would need to see some evidence that KC got or made the chloroform for the intent of killing Caylee. I would like the state to show no existing cleaning products that the Anthony's had access to (professional or otherwise) could not reasonably be expected to form any chloroform within the trunk. Given what happens to chloroform when it is exposed to sunlight, I am also curious as to the absence of a particular chemical within the trunk.

If chloroform was in the trunk previous to the decompositional chemical signatures, secondary and tertiary chemical reactions and new chemical signatures would have formed from them being exposed to each other. That is one way that the time period of when the chloroform was introduced to the trunk could be narrowed down. Although I have not yet seen this, I hope it will be part of the state's evidence. The reverse is also true, if the defense can show that the chloroform remaining so pure after 2.6 days of decompositional signatures being present, 27 days of being driven around, cleaned out, and stored in a junk yard might argue against the same thing.

Likewise, if the state is going to say that she died from the duct tape and that it was not applied after death to simulate a kidnapping, I need to see more than that the tape was applied before decomposition. It does not say it was applied before death, it says before decomp. I'm not even sure what I would want to see to convict of murder 1 on this possibility because there is so much that there will be no evidence from (soft tissues, etc) due to the remains being skeletal once found. But the burden of proof is on the state, not on the defense.

The state has to prove not only that KC drove around with Caylee's body or that she was in possession of the car, they need to prove that she actually killed her, intentionally.

Circ. Ev. is all fine and good, so long as the chain of events is as complete as possible and that it is not equally explained by other events. At this point, the defense could argue that Caylee died accidentally and every single thing listed could be explained down to the One Tree Hill/ Nanny stole my baby crap/KC is a four letter word sociopath.

I do hope there is more we haven't seen, or testimony from the experts during trial that will reveal something I've missed -with 17000+ pages, I'm sure there's something! I look forward to trial to see what, out of the documents we've seen, is admitted and which angle the state pursues. Too bad for KC she chose what appears to be ineffective counsel - or they really are smarter than they appear and are playing stupid for now. I kinda doubt that.

Caylee's death was ruled a homocide, not a suicide. Casey was the last person to see her. She had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill her daughter. She never reported her missing, and certaintly displayed consciousness of guilt behavior, not grieving or panic after Caylee was reported missing. Casey could not be excluded as a suspect because of her lies. The SA does not need to prove manner of death, nor beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction for 1st degree murder. Scott Peterson got the death sentence with much less evidence- we don't know exactly how he killed Laci, only that common sense dictates that he did. Most cases are circumstantial. Rarely do you have a confession or eye witness. Proctor & Gamble has already issued written statements to people that neither Febreze nor Bounce nor any of their products produce Chloroform!
P.S. I don't want the Death Penalty for Casey because I'm a "hater". I want it for her because she's a murderer as well as a liar. I used to be anti-DP, I've since changed my stance!!!

 

[JenniferTx]

I voted guilty of 1st degree murder- death! I believe she is guilty and I think she planned the entire thing. Her own daughter was holding her back from what seemed to matter the most in her life and that was PARTYING!!!! She is guilty as sin!

 

[elementary]

Death. She is an irredeemable psychopath and a baby killer. I remember watching the final interviews with Ted Bundy who was still trying to bargain for more time by promising to tell LE where bodies were. It was too late. I remember the utter panic and terror on his face, him, the invincible and untouchable. Finally. Justice was served. I want the same for the baby killer.

 

[iluvmua]

Caylee's death was ruled a homocide, not a suicide. Casey was the last person to see her. She had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill her daughter. She never reported her missing, and certaintly displayed consciousness of guilt behavior, not grieving or panic after Caylee was reported missing. Casey could not be excluded as a suspect because of her lies. The SA does not need to prove manner of death, nor beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction for 1st degree murder. Scott Peterson got the death sentence with much less evidence- we don't know exactly how he killed Laci, only that common sense dictates that he did. Most cases are circumstantial. Rarely do you have a confession or eye witness. Proctor & Gamble has already issued written statements to people that neither Febreze nor Bounce nor any of their products produce Chloroform!
P.S. I don't want the Death Penalty for Casey because I'm a "hater". I want it for her because she's a murderer as well as a liar. I used to be anti-DP, I've since changed my stance!!!

I'd say, IMO 90% are circumstantial.

 

[iluvmua]

I voted "guilty of 1st degree murder w/ death penalty.

I used to be against the DP until this case came along. I think the more educated you are about a case the more time you have to really think about what the repercussions should be for the POI. Caylee did not deserve to die, why should Casey deserve to live?

Tax payers will be paying for her to be in prison for life for what? Spend that money keeping Sex Offenders in jail since they are not put to death..even though they should be IMO. Sorry if I sound heartless, but I just can't find any reason at all to keep Casey around..none. :cow:

AMEN X 1 Thousand; Casey lost her right to live once she killed Caylee.

I will be Shocked if JP sentences her to Life w/o Parole.

 

[elfie]

Caylee's death was ruled a homocide, not a suicide. Casey was the last person to see her. She had the means, motive, and opportunity to kill her daughter. She never reported her missing, and certaintly displayed consciousness of guilt behavior, not grieving or panic after Caylee was reported missing. Casey could not be excluded as a suspect because of her lies. The SA does not need to prove manner of death, nor beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction for 1st degree murder. Scott Peterson got the death sentence with much less evidence- we don't know exactly how he killed Laci, only that common sense dictates that he did. Most cases are circumstantial. Rarely do you have a confession or eye witness. Proctor & Gamble has already issued written statements to people that neither Febreze nor Bounce nor any of their products produce Chloroform!
P.S. I don't want the Death Penalty for Casey because I'm a "hater". I want it for her because she's a murderer as well as a liar. I used to be anti-DP, I've since changed my stance!!!

I'm sure this question should go on the legal thread as well, but what is the standard for a conviction on 1st degree if not Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?

Thanks IA~

 

[luvmygarden]

I say guilty LWOP
Only because I want her out of society FOREVER. If she appeals the DP she will waste more of FL taxpayer money with her indigent status, Death is different. She can appeal all she wants with LWOP and she will be an old lady before she is considered. I want to see the girl who thinks she is a star grow old and scrub floors in jail and take the disdain from whoever chooses to see her as a child abuser and killer. She deserves to be treated with no respect. I am afraid if it is the DP she will not be charged like she should be. I see her eating her heart out after the trial and shows being done on her in the future and no one in her family or KC collecting a dime. We will get to see her get fat and gray in no time.
I have a grandson I babysit for everyday Caylees age and I squeeze him so hard and smother him with hugs 10 times more. The thought that a little girl who deserved a beautiful childhood and grow into a wonderful person is not getting all that love she soo deserved just upsets me to no end.
Poor Caylee it is so sad.

 

[iluvmua]

So the Statements Casey made during her first jail house call wanting TonyE's number and telling everybody what a huge waste it was to call and talk to them will be let in????

The Jury will be allowed to hear that during trial????

:great: :woohoo:

 

[shgrbkr]

I waffle between LWOP and the DP, though leaning more towards LWOP. As bad as I hate to say this, I think I'm looking for some kind of additional retribution which is unsettling for me because I'm not normally that kind of person. Imagine KC amongst hundreds of other women, many of them much more manipulative and dangerous than the social butterfly KC fancies herself as.

 

[Softail]

So the Statements Casey made during her first jail house call wanting TonyE's number and telling everybody what a huge waste it was to call and talk to them will be let in????

The Jury will be allowed to hear that during trial????

:great: :woohoo:

:yes: :yes:

 

[Aedrys]

Death. She is an irredeemable psychopath and a baby killer. I remember watching the final interviews with Ted Bundy who was still trying to bargain for more time by promising to tell LE where bodies were. It was too late. I remember the utter panic and terror on his face, him, the invincible and untouchable. Finally. Justice was served. I want the same for the baby killer.

Exactly. Casey at first liked her freedom from her mother in solitary confinement away from everyone else at first. She ate a lot and got fat - who does that with murder charges over their head? Then she started suffering because she was alone. No more bff's to betray her. No one talk to or visit her. And what's going to happen after the trial? No one will visit her. I don't want her getting into genpop and making a life for herself. Let her sit alone. Let her rot. Let her not be able to do anything or have any kind of life whatsover. No getting married behind bars, conjugal visits, using cigarettes as money, studying anything and getting any kind of degrees, making more bff's, loving not having to work or pay for anything, none of that. I think what really eats at her is being alone. And I want her alone, in a cell, doing nothing, being nothing, basically becoming nothing until that needle hits her arm and she dies. I am not usually rabid about the death penalty, but I think it would be perfect for her. The only thing Casey fears is losing her life. LWOP would not make her do that, but the DP would.

 

[CarrieSis]

Caylee's death was ruled a homocide, not a suicide.

homicide, actually. And no matter what it was ruled as, that is then further broken down into murder or manslaughter, and manslaughter covers an unintentional one while murder covers an intentional one - to my understanding. Not sitting the jury and not living in FL, I'm not familiar with exactly what the jury will be told about that or what's applicable here.

The SA does not need to prove manner of death, nor beyond a reasonable doubt to obtain a conviction for 1st degree murder.

Reasonable doubt exists, IMO, as to whether or not the death was intentional or unintentional. I'd argue it's pretty reasonable to think that since KC was a pretty craptastic mom dragging Caylee around, that Caylee may have accidentally - or rather, negligently - died.

Proctor & Gamble has already issued written statements to people that neither Febreze nor Bounce nor any of their products produce Chloroform!

I never asked about P&G nor those products specifically. I posted in another thread about chlorine bleach and some other chemicals that a consumer has easy access to - not sure if I ever got a response. I'm not saying that a bounce sheet made chloroform. Sigh.

 

[joypath]

homicide, actually. And no matter what it was ruled as, that is then further broken down into murder or manslaughter, and manslaughter covers an unintentional one while murder covers an intentional one - to my understanding. Not sitting the jury and not living in FL, I'm not familiar with exactly what the jury will be told about that or what's applicable here.



Reasonable doubt exists, IMO, as to whether or not the death was intentional or unintentional. I'd argue it's pretty reasonable to think that since KC was a pretty craptastic mom dragging Caylee around, that Caylee may have accidentally - or rather, negligently - died.



I never asked about P&G nor those products specifically. I posted in another thread about chlorine bleach and some other chemicals that a consumer has easy access to - not sure if I ever got a response. I'm not saying that a bounce sheet made chloroform. Sigh.

Just a fine point of reference here: the ruling of the MANNER of death as a homicide is from the office of the medical examiner, the CHARGE of murder in the first degree against CMA is by the SAO. The OME does not make a LEGAL decision to charge an individual with a crime.

 

[CarrieSis]

TY Joy, I was trying to point out that homicide doesn't automatically equal murder and it covers manslaughter as well. I didn't say the ME made the determination between the two though, yes that would be done by the SAO. I can see where I might have worded it better though. Unsure how to fix, so will leave as is with your following.

 

[gamom]

homicide, actually. And no matter what it was ruled as, that is then further broken down into murder or manslaughter, and manslaughter covers an unintentional one while murder covers an intentional one - to my understanding. Not sitting the jury and not living in FL, I'm not familiar with exactly what the jury will be told about that or what's applicable here.



Reasonable doubt exists, IMO, as to whether or not the death was intentional or unintentional. I'd argue it's pretty reasonable to think that since KC was a pretty craptastic mom dragging Caylee around, that Caylee may have accidentally - or rather, negligently - died.



I never asked about P&G nor those products specifically. I posted in another thread about chlorine bleach and some other chemicals that a consumer has easy access to - not sure if I ever got a response. I'm not saying that a bounce sheet made chloroform. Sigh.

Thanks for posting your views. It is not easy to go against the majority. I personally appreciate everyone's views even if they differ from mine since sometimes we can become jadded and miss certain facts.

I agree with you in that I don't believe that KC killed Caylee intentionally. I go back and forth on that one. I still kind of think she put her to sleep in the trunk and got distracted and forgot about her, the tape being placed there just in case she woke up OR I think she drowned in the pool at the A's home while KC was either sleeping, on the computer or texting away ignoring her.

That being said, I DO think the way she covered up the crime and acted after the fact proves she is at the very least CRIMINALY negligent. I think she did not intentionally kill her, but she may have put her in harms way hoping or not caring if something were to happen to her. Perhaps out of spite. The way she covered up the crime is very inhumane in my opinion. No matter if the charge is Manslaughter - involuntary or Murder in the first, I believe KC will spend the majority, if not the rest of her natural life in prision. Rightfully so.

In your mothers care should be a safe place. If we can't hold a parent responsbile for the care of their child, who can we? Caylee did not deserve to die and she especially did not deserve to be discarded the way she was. I have no doubt in my mind that her last few moments alive were torture. :twocents: