Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[WINDSOR]

According to Robert Kolker's "Lost Grils", Shannon and JB left for an errand about twenty minutes after she and her driver Michael arrived JB's home, I don't think she told Michael that they went to CVS, because after she and JB back, she called and asked Michael to "go to a pharmacy" to buy some baby oil, K-Y Jelly and playing cards, so I figured she would not ask Michael to buy these stuffs had she just back from a CVS, Michael guessed they went out to buy drugs. And CVS was far away, according to the book, all the way across Great South Bay
After that Shannon and JB stayed in his house until the third hour of their "date, that was about 5 am. After that both Michael and JB's account to what happened next was basically same. Michael did not get any money from this "date" , according to him, he was furious to the drama caused by Shannon at that time, this I personally think is creditable, Michael and JB did not know each other, and many of their account could also be verified by the many residents who witnessed Shannon got out of JB's home alive and ran into the darkness.

If I understand you correctly you are saying that JB and SG left Brewer's house twice that night. Once to buy drugs and once to go to CVS. Can you provide any information to support that statement?
Thanks

 

[WINDSOR]

What I mean is that, based on the account of MP, JB and other residents, we ought to agree that Shannon was physically unhurt when she ran out of JB's house. Most possible explanation for what happened was that Shanon had a psychosis episode, she was bipolar, and most likely she was consuming drug or alcohol or both that night, then JB may well say or do something to trigger her illness. we know JB DID NOT physically harm her, and when JB saw Shannon flipped out, he just wanted her to leave. this part was confirmed by Michael's account, Whatever JB said or did to cause this episode

I do not know how you are so sure JB did not physically harm her? What if he gave her toxic drugs? Could he also have emotionally harmed her?

 

[WINDSOR]

"I don't trust either JB or MP, but these two men were strangers to each other, and I don't think they were some kind of on the spot suddenly decided to be crime partner, and made up a story ? Come on !

And if you have read "Lost girls", then you would have known MP was not Shannon's pimp, he was a driver/security, and he was not a sex trafficker"
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Either you have inside information that we are not privy to, or how do you know MP and JB were strangers to each other? Are you saying MP randomly drove to Brewer's house in Oak Beach and brought a sex-worker?

How did the author of "Lost Girls" know MP was not a sex trafficker?

In my definition a sex-trafficker is one who derives income from a sex-worker. MP admitted that fact initially. He set up the date with JB and drove SG to Brewers house, and expected to get paid. That is sex trafficking in my book.

 

[marsyao]

If I understand you correctly you are saying that JB and SG left Brewer's house twice that night. Once to buy drugs and once to go to CVS. Can you provide any information to support that statement?
Thanks

No, JB and Shannon left JB's house only once, after they back, Shannon called Michael and asked him to do a CVS run, as I said, I got this information from "Lost Girls"

 

[marsyao]

"
In my definition a sex-trafficker is one who derives income from a sex-worker. MP admitted that fact initially. He set up the date with JB and drove SG to Brewers house, and expected to get paid. That is sex trafficking in my book.

There is a difference between a pimp and a driver, a girl works for her pimp, on the other hand, a driver is hired by the girl to drive her to her data, and provide certain degree of security

 

[eagleyeseymour]

There is a difference between a pimp and a driver, a girl works for her pimp, on the other hand, a driver is hired by the girl to drive her to her data, and provide certain degree of security

There is this:

But Michael Pak is also a convicted felon, having served time in federal prison for conspiracy to misuse a passport.

"Michael Pak has his own checkered history," Sax explained. "He was arrested...for bringing in a Chinese lady to the United States."
​

Source: CBS


Pak is a trafficker, no if's ands or buts. I can't accept that he was wrongfully convicted and doing the right thing in the aforementioned case. He was bringing a Chinese lady into the states and just also happened to be a driver for escorts.

Unless you believe Pak was going to house her, teach her English, sponsor an illegal immigrant. She was destined to be a massage parlor slave and it's not super difficult to connect the dots.

 

[marsyao]

There is this:

But Michael Pak is also a convicted felon, having served time in federal prison for conspiracy to misuse a passport.

"Michael Pak has his own checkered history," Sax explained. "He was arrested...for bringing in a Chinese lady to the United States."
​

Source: CBS


Pak is a trafficker, no if's ands or buts. I can't accept that he was wrongfully convicted and doing the right thing in the aforementioned case. He was bringing a Chinese lady into the states and just also happened to be a driver for escorts.

Unless you believe Pak was going to house her, teach her English, sponsor an illegal immigrant. She was destined to be a massage parlor slave and it's not super difficult to connect the dots.

Again, you should read "Lost girls", that young Chinese woman was a family member of a relative well to do Chinese illegal immigrant family, her family wanted to bring her to US by fake documentations, Michael was paid to accompany her, pretended to be her boyfriend, but he got busted in the airport, Michael was NOT a driver for escorts at that, he became a driver after he served his prison sentence

 

[eagleyeseymour]

Again, you should read "Lost girls", that young Chinese woman was a family member of a relative well to do Chinese illegal immigrant family, her family wanted to bring her to US by fake documentations, Michael was paid to accompany her, pretended to be her boyfriend, but he got busted in the airport, Michael was NOT a driver for escorts at that, he became a driver after he served his prison sentence

I've read lost girls and I also wasn't born yesterday.

 

[marsyao]

I've read lost girls and I also wasn't born yesterday.

affi
So you should know Michael's conviction was about conspiracy for misuse a passport, and his sentence was 6 months in a federal prison, it has nothing to do with sex trafficking

 

[eagleyeseymour]

affi
So you should know Michael's conviction was about conspiracy for misuse a passport, and his sentence was 6 months in a federal prison, it has nothing to do with sex trafficking

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. We both know the facts behind his incarceration, what the woman was going to do when she got here is anybodies guess, I've taken my guess.

Pak deserves all the scrutiny he gets. I don't believe he is connected to LISK as others do, however, I do believe he is culpable in Shannan's death to some degree.

He's done the best thing he could do for himself, which is to lay low. If I learned he left the country, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Sallyla]

We don't know Shannon's mental state when she went to that date, so why you so sure about it would not manifest like that ?



JB may say something or do something to trigger this episode, what was that we do not know



I don't trust either JB or MP, but these two men were strangers to each other, and I don't think they were some kind of on the spot suddenly decided to be crime partner, and made up a story ? Come on !

And if you have read "Lost girls", then you would have known MP was not Shannon's pimp, he was a driver/security, and he was not a sex trafficker

We do know about her mental state during the period before she disappeared. Her family, her boyfriend and even Pak have not claimed she was exhibiting any symptoms of a Bipolar episode. Her boyfriend’s account of their pleasant evening at a movie the day before she disappeared does not give any indication of an episode nor did he detail any other indications before that (although he is perhaps not 100% reliable and potentially had involvement).

More importantly, her own family have proven themselves totally reliable witnesses from day 1. We know none were involved, they had no reason to lie and almost all of their claims have been corroborated with hard evidence.They were in regular contact with Shannan, expecting a visit from her and they have said she was well and in good spirits. No indications of an episode.

I know it manifests like that through my profession and also to a limited extent through personal experience. It’s not a big secret though, you can fairly easily google the same info up for yourself if you want to confirm it.

Ditto go google the definition of a sex trafficker. It’s definition is a someone who moves people from one area to another for the purpose of sexual exploitation. That’s MP. His previous conviction also has very strong indications that it involved sex trafficking between countries, but that isn’t proven either. MP arranged the date and claims he gave her security. He can quibble all he want but that night at least, he was fulfilling the role of a pimp.

JB and MP’s previous knowledge of each other is a bit murky and contradictory. MP allegedly arranged the date but it’s unclear how or when. They claim now that they were strangers on the night, but that’s by no means confirmed. Neither has proven to be a particularly reliable witness, but MP in particular has proven to be an extremely unreliable witness and changed his story multiple times in fundamental ways.

The didn’t need to make a story up on the spot. If they were involved with Shannan’s disappearance they would have had at least a full day and probably more to both get their stories straight, hide evidence, speak to anyone else involved. It’s not unusual for two people (or more) people involved in committing crimes together to create successful cover stories which can last for years or decades, sometimes even after arrest. Eg Lloyd Lee Welch, Brady & Hindley, Fred & Rose West - just off the top of my head. And there are hundreds of thousands of cases where we know people have attempted to do it.

In addition to that, there are indications some involved made up a cover story and didn’t do a very good job. For example telephone records contradicting their original stories so the stories changed. And that’s despite the fact the stories they gave were simple and uncomplicated and only covered a short period of time.


<modsnip> Claims in Lost Girls are presented as just that - claims. Kolker makes no claim he has verified the veracity of those claims. Claims need to be backed up with evidence or they’re meaningless. That’s just how it is.

 

[Jen mcnamara]

There is this:

But Michael Pak is also a convicted felon, having served time in federal prison for conspiracy to misuse a passport.

"Michael Pak has his own checkered history," Sax explained. "He was arrested...for bringing in a Chinese lady to the United States."
​

Source: CBS


Pak is a trafficker, no if's ands or buts. I can't accept that he was wrongfully convicted and doing the right thing in the aforementioned case. He was bringing a Chinese lady into the states and just also happened to be a driver for escorts.

Unless you believe Pak was going to house her, teach her English, sponsor an illegal immigrant. She was destined to be a massage parlor slave and it's not super difficult to connect the dots.

Did he try to call SG during the hour he said he looked for her? His behavior is really odd...she was in the middle of nowhere. Didn't he want to stick around to find her at least get paid?

 

[marsyao]

Did he try to call SG during the hour he said he looked for her? His behavior is really odd...she was in the middle of nowhere. Didn't he want to stick around to find her at least get paid?

I think Michael left because he was told by residents that they had called the police, Michael did call Shannon later, since he could not reach her, he called Shannon's boyfriend Alex either next day or the day after that, then he and Alex went back to JB's house who told them he did not know where Shannon was, after that, they started knocking doors of the neighbors, that was how they met Dr. Peter Hackett, and how Hackett got Shannon's mother and sister's phone number

 

[Jen mcnamara]

I think Michael left because he was told by residents that they had called the police, Michael did call Shannon later, since he could not reach her, he called Shannon's boyfriend Alex either next day or the day after that, then he and Alex went back to JB's house who told them he did not know where Shannon was, after that, they started knocking doors of the neighbors, that was how they met Dr. Peter Hackett, and how Hackett got Shannon's mother and sister's phone number

thanks... Would think he would be afraid if the cops were coming but during the hour he said he was looking, did he call her 20 plus times? or more like 2?

 

[TristanP]

thanks... Would think he would be afraid if the cops were coming but during the hour he said he was looking, did he call her 20 plus times? or more like 2?

Maybe he did, but she was on the phone with 911 for over 20 minutes, so I doubt she was hanging up in them to answer his call.

 

[marsyao]

thanks... Would think he would be afraid if the cops were coming but during the hour he said he was looking, did he call her 20 plus times? or more like 2?

I checked "Lost girl" again, looks like Michael decided to leave immediately after Gus Coletti told him that he had called police, although Michael claimed he was still trying to look for Shannon on his way out, and he called Shannon over and over again. It was understandable why he left, what he and Shannon were doing was illegal, he already spend 6 months in a Federal prison, and did not want to get into trouble again, and even Cops found Shannon what worst would happen? She was a sex worker, and getting arrest was basically part of a sex worker's professional life.
I got one thing wrong, it was Shannon's boyfriend called Michael, Shannon went out for a "date" in Friday Evening and did not come home on Saturday, so Alex called Michael on Sunday.

 

[WINDSOR]

There is a difference between a pimp and a driver, a girl works for her pimp, on the other hand, a driver is hired by the girl to drive her to her data, and provide certain degree of security

Would there be a sex-trade without drivers, who are paid a percentage of the workers earnings?
In this case Pak arranged the date between Brewer and SG. Is that not what a Pimp does?

You might enjoy this article, where it addresses the role of drivers and the fact that drivers strive to become pimps.
Shining Light on the Role of Drivers in Prostitution

 

[WINDSOR]

I checked "Lost girl" again, looks like Michael decided to leave immediately after Gus Coletti told him that he had called police, although Michael claimed he was still trying to look for Shannon on his way out, and he called Shannon over and over again. It was understandable why he left, what he and Shannon were doing was illegal, he already spend 6 months in a Federal prison, and did not want to get into trouble again, and even Cops found Shannon what worst would happen? She was a sex worker, and getting arrest was basically part of a sex worker's professional life.
I got one thing wrong, it was Shannon's boyfriend called Michael, Shannon went out for a "date" in Friday Evening and did not come home on Saturday, so Alex called Michael on Sunday.

Driving a woman to a house is illegal? I do not think so.

The only reason Pak would avoid the police is if he felt he had committed a crime. Driving is not a crime as such. Now if had had assaulted someone, if he had kidnapped someone, or he had participated with someone in criminal activity, then Pak would be aware of his legal risk and would not want a meeting with police.

He would especially would not want to meet the police if his clothes and appearance showed signs of a struggle.

 

[marsyao]

Would there be a sex-trade without drivers, who are paid a percentage of the workers earnings?
In this case Pak arranged the date between Brewer and SG. Is that not what a Pimp does?

1) Many sex workers does NOT have a driver
2) There is no fix rate about how much a sex workers should pay her driver, in Shannon and Michael's case, Michael got a third of what Shannon got from her date
3) Michael did not arrange the date between Shannon and Brewer, as her boyfriend said, Shannon found her own date via Craigslist, Michael did no more than re-post her add (so call refresh) sometimes, so that her ad would be on the top of the list
4) Shannon quit the escort agency and went solo exactly for the reason that she did not want to work for anybody

 

[marsyao]

Driving a woman to a house is illegal? I do not think so.

The only reason Pak would avoid the police is if he felt he had committed a crime. Driving is not a crime as such. Now if had had assaulted someone, if he had kidnapped someone, or he had participated with someone in criminal activity, then Pak would be aware of his legal risk and would not want a meeting with police.

He would especially would not want to meet the police if his clothes and appearance showed signs of a struggle.

Driving a woman to a house is not illegal? But driving an escort to her date is illegal