Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert #2

[WINDSOR]

Could somebody contact John Ray, and ask him what is happening in the case?

 

[Bose]

Could somebody contact John Ray, and ask him what is happening in the case?

I tried in the past @WINDSOR ,never got a call back. That's just my experience. If anyone else would like to try, I hope they get an answer.

As for the court case, I checked the ecourts again, looks like another compliance conference is set for 11/28/22 at 11:00 am. I would assume, since there is no other notation, that it's a continuation of the last conference to address any issues of outstanding discovery and/or certify the case is ready for trial. Either way, looks like a trial is on the horizon. How fast that moves, will probably be a continuation of a snail-like pace. It's going to be a while I would guess, months, maybe years, for the matter to be concluded.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

I tried in the past @WINDSOR ,never got a call back. That's just my experience. If anyone else would like to try, I hope they get an answer.

As for the court case, I checked the ecourts again, looks like another compliance conference is set for 11/28/22 at 11:00 am. I would assume, since there is no other notation, that it's a continuation of the last conference to address any issues of outstanding discovery and/or certify the case is ready for trial. Either way, looks like a trial is on the horizon. How fast that moves, will probably be a continuation of a snail-like pace. It's going to be a while I would guess, months, maybe years, for the matter to be concluded.

I don’t believe that a civil case can move forward if it is part of an active investigation. I don’t believe that SCPD ever went on record declaring that Shannan Gilbert death investigation was NOT part of the larger LISK investigation (the active case).

 

[WINDSOR]

I don’t believe that a civil case can move forward if it is part of an active investigation. I don’t believe that SCPD ever went on record declaring that Shannan Gilbert death investigation was NOT part of the larger LISK investigation (the active case).

In the USA, I understand a civil case can move forward even though a criminal investigation is underway. Whatever evidence is presented in the civil case, it would be already on the public record, or discovered by the litigants. The litigants would not have access to Law Enforcement confidential criminal evidence. IMO

 

[giagreen]

Just a random thought here.

The killer called MB sister and used the word "half-breed".
The killer may have called MW mother at work.
Then we got good old Peter Hackett calling SG mother saying he runs a home for "wayward girls".
Idk besides everything else that's obvious. Just seems pretty suspicious. Both those words are so outdated and not commonly used.
There's obviously lots of coincidences with SG and gb4. For me the choice of words and an impulse to make contact in someway with a family member of some victims is yet another strange coincidence for me I have a hard time over looking.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Just a random thought here.

The killer called MB sister and used the word "half-breed".
The killer may have called MW mother at work.
Then we got good old Peter Hackett calling SG mother saying he runs a home for "wayward girls".
Idk besides everything else that's obvious. Just seems pretty suspicious. Both those words are so outdated and not commonly used.
There's obviously lots of coincidences with SG and gb4. For me the choice of words and an impulse to make contact in someway with a family member of some victims is yet another strange coincidence for me I have a hard time over looking.

That’s a great point. This was referenced specifically on an episode from the podcast “Police Off the Cuff” by the former NYPD Chief of Staff of Medical Examiner’s Office (Barbara Butcher). I believe it’s episode no.7. She and the former NYPD sergeant who is the host of the show had a lot to say about the Gilgo Murders investigation.

 

[Bose]

Just a random thought here.

The killer called MB sister and used the word "half-breed".
The killer may have called MW mother at work.
Then we got good old Peter Hackett calling SG mother saying he runs a home for "wayward girls".
Idk besides everything else that's obvious. Just seems pretty suspicious. Both those words are so outdated and not commonly used.
There's obviously lots of coincidences with SG and gb4. For me the choice of words and an impulse to make contact in someway with a family member of some victims is yet another strange coincidence for me I have a hard time over looking.

I do agree, @giagreen . Just my opinion, but I agree that the words are outdated and not commonly used. It would fit someone like CPH, IMO. Having grown up in NYC, and lived in Suffolk Co., there are only particular age brackets and origins that make sense to me, using that slang.

In NYC, the older generations (born ca. 1900) and firmly middle class, and white, I had heard similar utterances growing up. But, that generation died out.

It's language one would expect to run across in "All in the Family" reruns. The only place I still ran across that type of class/race based language after the year 2000 was Suffolk Co., among middle class Caucasian males born sometime between 1950-1960, generally.

White, middle-class, generally male, generally socially involved with those of same background, who thought of themselves as separate from the lower classes, or other races, and used disparaging language. Sad, but true, in my experience. It was common enough that it took me off guard, and by surprise, that people still thought or talked that way. It was not like that in NYC, anymore, IMO.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

I do agree, @giagreen . Just my opinion, but I agree that the words are outdated and not commonly used. It would fit someone like CPH, IMO. Having grown up in NYC, and lived in Suffolk Co., there are only particular age brackets and origins that make sense to me, using that slang.

In NYC, the older generations (born ca. 1900) and firmly middle class, and white, I had heard similar utterances growing up. But, that generation died out.

It's language one would expect to run across in "All in the Family" reruns. The only place I still ran across that type of class/race based language after the year 2000 was Suffolk Co., among middle class Caucasian males born sometime between 1950-1960, generally.

White, middle-class, generally male, generally socially involved with those of same background, who thought of themselves as separate from the lower classes, or other races, and used disparaging language. Sad, but true, in my experience. It was common enough that it took me off guard, and by surprise, that people still thought or talked that way. It was not like that in NYC, anymore, IMO.

That is an excellent analysis. The “All in the Family” reference really nails it, when it comes to the use of disparaging, old-school, racially charged, derogatory slander…things only an Archie Bunker type of persona would say. The white elephant in the room, that is clearly part of this case, is the racial element involved. The killer called MB’s sister several times and made a ‘half-breed’ reference; allegedly also called MB’s pimp boyfriend and used phrases such as “I know where you be at…”, mocking stereotypical black american vernacular (that is also kind of outdated).

 

[giagreen]

It genuinely just bugs the crap out of me. Its so obviously right in front of our faces yet at the very same time Hackett actually being the serial killer makes zero sense.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Well if the ‘home for wayward girls’ that he mentioned in the call to SG’s mother is a reference to the Ocean Pkwy. strip along Gilgo Beach, then it makes perfect sense. Weren’t all of the victims ‘wayward girls?’, as he put it?

Maybe he is tied to SG’s death, and maybe he isn’t. But her body was found practically behind his property—like, in what would be considered an extension of his backyard. And he DID, in fact, call SG’s mother…who knows?

 

[clear sky]

I don't believe the Dr is the serial killer.
SG was found quarter of a mile away in the marsh. That's geography.
Not practically in his back yard.
She was found where the thickets start.
You can't walk through them.
It's what lines Ocean Pkwy.

Well if the ‘home for wayward girls’ that he mentioned in the call to SG’s mother is a reference to the Ocean Pkwy. strip along Gilgo Beach, then it makes perfect sense. Weren’t all of the victims ‘wayward girls?’, as he put it?

Maybe he is tied to SG’s death, and maybe he isn’t. But her body was found practically behind his property—like, in what would be considered an extension of his backyard. And he DID, in fact, call SG’s mother…who knows?

 

[clear sky]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't John Ray say he did not believe SG could get that far on her own?
JR wanted to demonstrate if it could be done. He did and he walked the same path as SG.
This according to him.
There is a video of him doing just that.
Why would he think SG could not travel that distance?
Makes no sense he would think a man with a prosthetic leg could drag or carry someone to the spot she was found.

 

[giagreen]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't John Ray say he did not believe SG could get that far on her own?
JR wanted to demonstrate if it could be done. He did and he walked the same path as SG.
This according to him.
There is a video of him doing just that.
Why would he think SG could not travel that distance?
Makes no sense he would think a man with a prosthetic leg could drag or carry someone to the spot she was found.

When Ray walked that wasn't it a different time of year so the water level was down?
I just don't see how Hackett ties in with JB or pak. And I always felt just one person was responsible for gb4. But I do have to say one time I was watching an episode of cops. And there was a cop on there with the prosthetic leg. And I kid you not he chased multiple fast moving criminals and tackle them all. Then would march them away to his squad car all with his prosthetic leg. So I mean I'm just saying you'd be surprised what people can do with a prosthetic leg. Lol

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
Didn't John Ray say he did not believe SG could get that far on her own?
JR wanted to demonstrate if it could be done. He did and he walked the same path as SG.
This according to him.
There is a video of him doing just that.
Why would he think SG could not travel that distance?
Makes no sense he would think a man with a prosthetic leg could drag or carry someone to the spot she was found.

To be fair, I’m not implying that he is responsible for all of the killings. He’s probably not. But its impossible to say for sure…every known POI in relation to the LISK killings have some really strange coincidences that are attached to them, like Hackett for example: he is a retired NYC medical examiner who would be familiar w. known police tactics, particularly in relationship to remains etc; he called SG’s mother while she was missing and unaccounted for (as did the killer contact family members of other victims while they were missing and unaccounted for), and specifically uses ambiguous language referencing other girls (i.e. other ‘wayward girls’); and then SG’s body is ultimately found LESS than a 1/4 mile behind his property.

 

[wcasewatch]

I don’t believe that a civil case can move forward if it is part of an active investigation. I don’t believe that SCPD ever went on record declaring that Shannan Gilbert death investigation was NOT part of the larger LISK investigation (the active case).

Considering they believe her death was accidental, I don't think that they need to state that.

Dormer remained adamant that she was not a LISK victim. Her death doesn't bear any of the hallmarks of LISK.

The odds, as I see them:

1. Shannan died of misadventure.
2. Shannan died as a result of a certain person giving her a sedative in an effort to calm her down (sedatives can bring on hypothermia).
3. Shannan was deliberately murdered.
4. Shannan was murdered by LISK.

 

[Bose]

But I do have to say one time I was watching an episode of cops. And there was a cop on there with the prosthetic leg. And I kid you not he chased multiple fast moving criminals and tackle them all. Then would march them away to his squad car all with his prosthetic leg. So I mean I'm just saying you'd be surprised what people can do with a prosthetic leg. Lol

I think that's a very good point. Unless we ourselves have had an injury like that, it is hard to say what we would be able to do/not do. I think it's far to easy to rule someone out on the basis of having prosthesis, maybe just thinking that the terrain would not be easy with a prosthetic limb, or someone might get stuck, etc. etc. There are quite a few people in this world with life-changing injuries, who manage to effectively compensate, learn new ways of doing things, and have some sort of prosthesis. This ability to adapt runs the gamut from activities of daily living, all the way to Paralympics, for some. IMO certain health issues should not rule someone out, by bias, unconscious or not. Same thing with heart, pacemaker, defib device. It always bothered me that CPH made a great show of pain/discomfort to avoid questions/deflect. My aunt had one. It didn't hurt. And I know someone with a prosthetic leg who could get around just fine. All MOO.

 

[Sleuth_EMJ]

If Hackett were LISK, I'm not sure why he would have placed Shannon relatively close to his own home. Quite a gutsy move. One could say that it worked, I guess, though.

 

[Sleuth_Noob]

Well I guess it would be because he had no other choice.

 

[clear sky]

Dr Hackett did not walk over a quarter of a mile with a body and a prosthetic leg.

 

[clear sky]

John Ray had a difficult time walking through the marsh with 2 good legs.