Possible Victim: Valerie Mack, 24, Manorville Jane Doe #6, missing 2000, found Nov 2000 & Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[LR1]

In March 2012 were the Manorville Hills County Park remains, which had been dead a week. (There does not appear to be a lot of information on that case.)

That was a overdose, her husband/BF was arrested, articles abound.

 

[Blueeyedbrowngirl]

I think LISK probably lives (or once lived) somewhere between Ocean Parkway and Manorville because there’s no way he’d make lengthy road trips to dump bodies. Plus, that’s a quiet, not super-populated area without immediate neighbors so it’s perfect for bringing victims home and making quick trips to dispose of them. Valerie was last seen in Jersey and I can’t imagine that even the cockiest and most narcissistic individual would risk being caught on a long drive back to LI with a body in the car. Yes, there are some who would, but LISK has considered the risk and is smarter than that.

 

[LR1]

Her last known location still needs to be pinned down, where she stayed and worked etc. and it seems likely that could happen in the coming days. I'm wondering where the mugshots were from, I take it they have no record for her in NYC. I'm thinking wherever she was transported from she was alive during the trip. She was probably talked into taking a couple hour's trip with an offer she couldn't refuse.

 

[Manwel]

That was a overdose, her husband/BF was arrested, articles abound.

Thanks for the clarity on that, LR1. My search terms were probably not pulling up the correct results given those details.

Then that definitely rules out any activity in the area—that we know of—after December 2010 when they were found. To me it seems like he got spooked and stopped, or got spooked and changed locations.

 

[madamx]

Thanks for the clarity on that, LR1. My search terms were probably not pulling up the correct results given those details.

Then that definitely rules out any activity in the area—that we know of—after December 2010 when they were found. To me it seems like he got spooked and stopped, or got spooked and changed locations.

I have thought about that also. Almost like his comfort zone had been tampered with.. I keep wondering if he changed locations. it got a bit too hot there. Or he could of been arrested.

 

[Manwel]

I have thought about that also. Almost like his comfort zone had been tampered with.. I keep wondering if he changed locations. it got a bit too hot there. Or he could of been arrested.

That's why I go back to Bittrolff as a good guess. In jail since 2014, lived in the area so knew from 2010 and onward how hot the area was. If it was him, he backed off and then got arrested almost as a fluke.

 

[LR1]

I didn't expect the possible AC connection, it would be quite interesting and not at all surprising if that is where she was picked up from. Long shot but it might be prudent to take another look back at the registry records for the golden key if still available. You know, just in case?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This identification made me really believe the theory that there are 2 different killer. Does it make others feel like me too?
Valerie seems just like Jessica Taylor most likely they both were street walkers also they way they were killed and dismembered ...
I hope other details from Valerie life will come to life,i hate that we know so little about Jessica i hope this won't be the case for Valeria.

I have always thought we were dealing with at least 2 serial killers here.

LISK: for the GB4 and possibly AC4 (4 victims in each, all laid out in a somewhat orderly fashion, all strangled, no dismemberment)

Manorville : I don't believe this is necessarily one individual. In my mind, Manorville reeks of gang related murders. Victims are both male and female, all dismembered to avoid identification of people known to them, apparent attempts to remove tattoo's, etc. And curiously enough, we also have reports of groups of dogs and chickens found dead and discarded in that area of Manorville. That, in my mind, screams illegal dog fighting and *advertiser censored* fighting. Also gang related stuff.

Bittrolff : Tangredi and McNamee (both beaten, strangled and posed, no dismemberment). I will say here that I do think it's possible that Bittrolff could be a candidate for the GB4 and possibly the AC4. I don't see any logical reason to discount him. But in my gut, Bittrolff just doesn't "feel" right for the GB4. I feel like LISK courts his victims, makes them feel secure, maybe lures them in with his "position" or money or something. Bittrolff, on the other hand, seems like someone who had interacted with his victims on some social level or knew them. Maybe picked them up in a bar, or something. In other words, he didn't shop for his victims online.

Whether there are 2 or 3 serial killers, I don't know. But I would absolutely bet my farm that Manorville and LISK are not the same person.

 

[Eliodoha]

I didn't expect the possible AC connection, it would be quite interesting and not at all surprising if that is where she was picked up from. Long shot but it might be prudent to take another look back at the registry records for the golden key if still available. You know, just in case?

Here is a source stating she was last seen in 2000 near Atlantic City.

“Suffolk County police said the woman previously known as “Jane Doe No. 6” was identified through genetic genealogy technology as Valerie Mack, who also went by Melissa Taylor and was last seen in 2000 near Atlantic City, New Jersey.”
Long Island serial killer victim last seen in Atlantic City IDed 2 decades later

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Also...am I the only person who has picked up on the fact that the names Valerie and " Malorie " are very similar ? I wonder if we are being too quick to dismiss the Malorie Fulton reports. Especially if Valerie's parents died when she was young and she was adopted.

Just a thought.

 

[Arz]

Seems like her dna matched her aunt dna when she was entered in genealogy database but her positive Identification came by comparing her son dna with Valerie's,also her mother is not alive anymore.

She has a son in his late 20s,how sad for him growing up without a mother :/
Seems like Valerie grow up in foster care so maybe that Malerie theory is true.

"Jane Doe #6" finally has a real name — Valerie Mack

 

[Arz]

I have always thought we were dealing with at least 2 serial killers here.

LISK: for the GB4 and possibly AC4 (4 victims in each, all laid out in a somewhat orderly fashion, all strangled, no dismemberment)

Manorville : I don't believe this is necessarily one individual. In my mind, Manorville reeks of gang related murders. Victims are both male and female, all dismembered to avoid identification of people known to them, apparent attempts to remove tattoo's, etc. And curiously enough, we also have reports of groups of dogs and chickens found dead and discarded in that area of Manorville. That, in my mind, screams illegal dog fighting and *advertiser censored* fighting. Also gang related stuff.

Bittrolff : Tangredi and McNamee (both beaten, strangled and posed, no dismemberment). I will say here that I do think it's possible that Bittrolff could be a candidate for the GB4 and possibly the AC4. I don't see any logical reason to discount him. But in my gut, Bittrolff just doesn't "feel" right for the GB4. I feel like LISK courts his victims, makes them feel secure, maybe lures them in with his "position" or money or something. Bittrolff, on the other hand, seems like someone who had interacted with his victims on some social level or knew them. Maybe picked them up in a bar, or something. In other words, he didn't shop for his victims online.

Whether there are 2 or 3 serial killers, I don't know. But I would absolutely bet my farm that Manorville and LISK are not the same person.

I actually feel same as you
Gilgo beach 4 were for sure killed by same person.
I think that Valerie and Jessica were killed by same person,maybe the Asian men too but idk how to feel about him his cause of death is way to diff and he was not dismembered might have been a hate crime too.
Peach and her daughter probably by someone familiar to them like a boyfriend and other like Cherry as you said just coincidence.
The Suffolk county was kinda like a dumping ground just like Texas killing field so i can totally see +2 killers

 

[SharD]

Yes Jess, I totally see it.. and I also feel they def are connected.. along with Fire Island Jane doe . They have the similar features especially the nose, thick lips and pout. And all of them their heads were separate from their bodies.

It is indeed strange how much the sketch of -Fire Island doe- looks like Valerie. Looking at the actual sketch of Valerie made me think they that they were looking for a blonde woman with a strong jawline.

 

[Tora Gahan]

@Danse_Macabre I took it to mean challenges related to the investigative aspect of geneology like smaller reference panels and a lack of paper trails. Don't know. But does anyone know if Nassau is doing this work with Peaches and Jane Doe #7's DNA? Also: Serial Murder: Pathways for Investigations | Federal Bureau of Investigation
nb. Body Disposal Pathways and

One thing to know about Long Island re: the Pine Barrens and Ocean Parkway (and even the other big parks like Hempstead re: Peaches). If you grew up here like I did and you were thinking about places where you'd go to hide a dead body or multiple bodies, your obvious first choice would be the Pine Barrens. It's a forest surrounded by farms and small, quiet towns. But you'd soon realize that it's actually a ****** spot for a long-term solution because the woods are busy with hunters of all sorts, hikers, bikers, scientists doing conservation work. Where Mack and Taylor's bodies were placed was essentually right off the LIE. Our major highway, which is busy any time of year, any time of day or night. i.e. increased chance of discovery of the body and witness sightings.

The thing about Ocean Parkway is that you could quickly hop on the Robert Moses Causeway from any town in the vicinity (even up to the north shore via the Sagtikos), turn onto Ocean Parkway, dump a body, and quickly hop back on the Wantagh Parkway to get home. It's a loop system.

Every single Long Islander knows that stretch of road along the beach because we all grew up going to those beaches when we were kids. And our kids go to those beaches each summer - and so will their kids. Actually, that drive over the bridge and along the parkway gives you nostalgia, HUGE nastolgia, if you grew up here. To an outsider, it may seem creepy and remote, but we on LI all know that road well - and we all know how remote it is at night.

My point is that it doesn't take a genius or someone with specialized knowledge to get to the conclusion LISK did: "Hmm I've just killed someone. Where can I put this person so that I don't get caught? I'll put half of her in the woods and half of her.... *Lightbulb!* down by the beach." And he's done. And in 10-40 minutes depending on his town, he's back home. If the Lattingtown/Gold Charm Jane Doe is part of LISK's victims, and I think she is, then you could assume LISK is familiar with the north shore and that's a horse of a different color. (Because not everyone on LI knows those small beaches and the small, private roads you take to get to them.)

@Danse_Macabre I took it to mean challenges related to the investigative aspect of geneology like smaller reference panels and a lack of paper trails. Don't know. But does anyone know if Nassau is doing this work with Peaches and Jane Doe #7's DNA? Also: Serial Murder: Pathways for Investigations | Federal Bureau of Investigation
nb. Body Disposal Pathways and Investigative Suggestions, crime scenes, trophies, and profiling an unknown serial offender who changed pathways.

One thing to know about Long Island re: the Pine Barrens and Ocean Parkway (and even the other big parks like Hempstead re: Peaches). If you grew up here like I did and you were thinking about places where you'd go to hide a dead body or multiple bodies, your obvious first choice would be the Pine Barrens. It's a forest surrounded by farms and small, quiet towns. But you'd soon realize that it's actually a ****** spot for a long-term solution because the woods are busy with hunters of all sorts, hikers, bikers, scientists doing conservation work. Where Mack and Taylor's bodies were placed was essentually right off the LIE. Our major highway, which is busy any time of year, any time of day or night. i.e. increased chance of discovery of the body and witness sightings.

The thing about Ocean Parkway is that you could quickly hop on the Robert Moses Causeway from any town in the vicinity (even up to the north shore via the Sagtikos), turn onto Ocean Parkway, dump a body, and quickly hop back on the Wantagh Parkway to get home. It's a loop system.

Every single Long Islander knows that stretch of road along the beach because we all grew up going to those beaches when we were kids. And our kids go to those beaches each summer - and so will their kids. Actually, that drive over the bridge and along the parkway gives you nostalgia, HUGE nastolgia, if you grew up here. To an outsider, it may seem creepy and remote, but we on LI all know that road well - and we all know how remote it is at night.

My point is that it doesn't take a genius or someone with specialized knowledge to get to the conclusion LISK did: "Hmm I've just killed someone. Where can I put this person so that I don't get caught? I'll put half of her in the woods and half of her.... *Lightbulb!* down by the beach." And he's done. And in 10-40 minutes depending on his town, he's back home. If the Lattingtown/Gold Charm Jane Doe is part of LISK's victims, and I think she is, then you could assume LISK is familiar with the north shore and that's a horse of a different color. (Because not everyone on LI knows those small beaches and the small, private roads you take to get to them.)

I was born and raised on LI too (here my whole life) and can attest to all you said about the PB and the loop design of the highways. Being able to switch from one major road to another very easily. I often drive "out east" and wonder how many more bodies are out there, but know they won't be hidden long.

 

[jessr927]

Kat, I'm going to tread very lightly to avoid possibly breaking any rules but you're on the right track. I did see a social media post from a family member but of course will not link here. I believe Fulton is the correct birth name.

Also...am I the only person who has picked up on the fact that the names Valerie and " Malorie " are very similar ? I wonder if we are being too quick to dismiss the Malorie Fulton reports. Especially if Valerie's parents died when she was young and she was adopted.

Just a thought.

 

[Blueeyedbrowngirl]

I read the same social media post. As a fellow adoptee, I wouldn’t be surprised if her name was changed or altered post-adoption. (I had three names before my adoption was final.)

Edited because I too want to tread lightly and comply with rules.

 

[jessr927]

I kept a screenshot also, and it does fit. Also found a legal case in NJ citing the birth parents' divorce. It references a child in foster care and a child adopted out.

Are we allowed to discuss SM posts if names are not mentioned and screenshots are not posted?

My comment about Malorie was removed by mods last week (cited as rumor before Valerie’s name was released) but pieces of the alleged relative’s conversation seem to fit. I did a screenshot so I wouldn’t forget the name Malorie if that was Jane Doe’s name. As an adoptee, I wouldn’t be surprised at all if her name was changed or altered. (I had three names before my adoption was final.)

 

[SharD]

"LISK: for the GB4 and possibly AC4 (4 victims in each, all laid out in a somewhat orderly fashion, all strangled, no dismemberment)"

The AC4 victims were almost artsy. Given all the little details that have gone into this scene makes me think that the perp considers himself an artist and some sort of cultured intellectual. As if he wanted to display the debauchery of society or something. A lot of thought has gone into this crime.

That sort of detail is lacking a little bit with the GB4 crimes. But we do not exactly know what else was found at the crime scene apart from that belt - which took them long enough to show us.

 

[eagleyeseymour]

Sure, but every family is different. The NY Daily News article says she was never reported as a missing person but her family and friends were "left searching for answers." I mean, it might also be that they assumed she was dead since she disappeared without a trace. Instead of filing a report, they just assumed the worst. Depending on education level and background, they may not have considered what value there would be in filing that report. Especially if they knew what work she was engaged in. They never would have imagined their relative would receive publicity as a victim of an unnamed serial killer 20 years later, or that a missing persons report would have made this process easier. It just depends on the family and what they think they'll get from it. Unfortunately they made that call for some reason.

If we go back to assuming she was close with the family and she visited the Port Republic area frequently, then yeah, I would definitely look at the hours and days after she left as an indication of her abduction. But given the profile on this killer—picks up women in the sex industry—he's not likely to have found her near her parents' house in Jersey. She probably returned to Philadelphia and then did a job in NYC. That adds to the theory that the killer works or even lives in NYC, at least part-time, given that she was found in Manorville/Gilgo. I find it hard to believe that a Philadelphia-based escort would travel to NYC and then even further out onto Long Island for a job. Coming into NYC from Philly is easy, but then traveling out to Long Island? Waste of train time.

Agree with you that for a lack of better terms, Mack was imported/transported to LI by someone who was very local to the area. This is also pretty consistent with Maureen and Melissa's disappearances. Theres also Jessica Taylor as well who disappeared from NYC, according to her bf/pimp he believed she actually disappeared from Queens Plaza.

I still believe that the guy responsible for this is not driving the ~5o miles out to the city to get them and bring them back, I believe he is already in the city and has a reason to be there (likely work or maybe even recreation) and it is very convenient for him to find prey and bring it back to his comfort zone. I'm not ruling out the possibility of her being picked up in AC either. AC is notorious for this kind of activity and as I mentioned, an extremely popular destination for people on Long Island.

Yeah, I've actually done a heckuva journey myself beginning in southern Brooklyn, up to Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, and out to Jones Beach for a concert at the amphitheater there and then back into the city. (Anecdotally, yes, the roads out there in the dark by the water are terrifying and utterly deserted. I thought about it while driving it without even knowing that was LISK area. I've only since learned more about LISK.) Anyway, the transit would be a nightmare for anyone depending on it to get around. I can't think of anybody who would agree to spend 90 minutes on a train to NYC, then another 90 minutes or more on a train and a bus to a coastal slip of land on Long Island all for a brief job, then turn around to come back. Maybe I could understand it if she were spending an entire weekend in NYC with a hotel. But even just waiting for the LIRR to show up and get back to the city was horrendous. So I totally agree, I think there is a NYC connection there for sure, definitely some of the hunting ground.

Now as far as Atlantic City, that would be more sensible for her to operate out of, so you make a good point that it could also be a hunting ground. Though, that's a three-hour drive back to Long Island, so if she was found in AC, the killer drove her three hours or more back up north. That's a risky move to have a body in a vehicle for that long on toll roads. So I'm still leaning NYC because of that.

And you also make a good point that the killer had to live in the area given that so many of the women were local to Suffolk County/Nassau County. If their main residence was LI, I would assume the primary motivation to visit the city is sports or events. Especially as that one mystery call came through with Madison Square Garden pings (which could also be Penn Station). "Honey, I'm going to the city tonight for a game" sounds like a good way to buy hours upon hours of free time with an alibi, especially if they're actually purchasing those tickets. Someone just buying up tickets like that would have money. And given the look of Oak Beach and Manorville, if the killer lives there, they have money.

Great points here. I also recall leaving Jones Beach from a concert circa 08' and accidentally missing the Bridge and driving down Ocean Parkway with a friend, we realized we missed it very quick but were intrigued with the drive so continued for a number of miles.

There could be so many reasons from someone to be in the city, the possibilities are endless. I also don't think any of these women we are discussing found on LI were killed elsewhere. My gut on these cases tells me that the killers in Suffolk whether Bittrolf or someone else have a very specific disposition and methodology. I feel they are emboldened when they are in their comfort zone....

And yes, Rifkin was caught because he was moving a body in his truck and was pulled over in a traffic stop. I think the LISK is way more organized than Rifkin, he is as depraved but cut from a different cloth. The profile of someone who is gainfully employed, perhaps in law enforcement or construction makes sense to me.

 

[Sallyla]

Sorry if this has been mentioned but who had her son when she went missing?

His Gran and her sister.