Post Conviction Brief

[Karinna]

I've always had trouble understanding why TH was murdered. It was difficult, but not impossible, to believe it was done by LE just to frame SA. I think most would have trouble. RH was on my radar and is more believable. I think he started framing SA and LE was ready to jump in and help, alleviating their own issues with him. Two different frame jobs were going on simultaneously, creating the perfect storm. I feel bad for JB and DS. They didn't have the power, money or balls that KZ has. I think they tried their best, but we're up against a brick wall. Luckily, KZ has a bulldozer.
I enjoy reading this thread
JMO MOO etc

Good post & i agree. When reading all the things that went on in the case the old saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when practicing to deceive" comes to mind.
I certainly think KZ has unravelled a lot of the web of deception in the Steven Avery case, all IMO.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

ok, here is something interesting... I have been watching KK's gf's twitter (who many believe is being KK's voice without it being KK), she has been tweeting about this and replying to tweets. This is from earlier tonight....

He was talking to Mark Weigert. Villegas was heading up a search party with Weigerts help. There you go. Nothing dirty. Nothing suspicious.

it was in reply to this tweet: #MakingAMurderer On Nov 4, from 4: 15-7:25 p.m., Mr.Hillegas received 21 calls from an unidentified, hidden phone number #WhoWasUtalkin2

I'm assuming Villegas is a typo LOL So is this a roundabout way to acknowledge that yes, he was talking to LE?? Knowing that KZ probably has proof of it anyway? hmmmm Isn't there some pretrial motions about this and whether RH was an agent of the state or something like that, acting under the direction of LE... I think it may have had something to do with the search warrant... "fruit of the poisonous tree" seems to be what I recall. If he found the RAV4 under the direction of LE on Nov. 4th it would not be allowed ... but if he then directed someone else while organizing the search party and sending those searchers with a camera and the direct line to Pagel.. it wouldn't be so bad. Godly Pam, my a$$.

Yes Missy~~you are absolutely right. We did talk about that and it being "fruit of the poisonous tree".

So here is my question...

Why be so sneaky about it? Why not just be transparent? Why use a number that could not be traced? Why not have everything above board? Like the Avery's were going to find out RH and Weigert were talking? Why not use your own cell phone and not hide it? Why not do it thru "his direct line" in the office? Why all the secrecy?

In my opinion~~KZ was baiting and she had no idea WHO RH was talking to? That is until KK opened his big fat wide mouth.

 

[htiff]

I think the brilliance of Kathleen Zellner's brief will become even more apparent as time progresses on this. It would have been nice if EDTA had been discovered in the planted blood, but actually the fact that the blood found in the Rava came from Avery's wound, is almost more incriminating.

The DA asserted that this is where the blood came from, but HOW the blood got into Halbach's vehicle is at the heart of the issue. So it's just another way in which Zellner is upending Kratz's total performance as a DA.

 

[dexter75]

Ok, for those that are doubting the "sink blood" (myself included lol)

Mr. Avery consistently expressed his belief to his attorneys and the media that the blood
of his found in Ms. Halbach's vehicle was planted and that it came from his trailer. In one
interview, he said he dripped blood from his finger into his bathroom sink. (Video Clips
from 11/9/05 NBC-26 WFRV interview and 11/18/05 WBAY interview, attached and
incorporated herein as P-C Group Exhibit 8).

If we see evidence or find out that SA had told Strang and Buting about this right away, or his other lawyers, does that change your mind at all?

When I'm reading some of this and I think "as if" LOL but as I've had time to think, I'm thinking, maybe this is how it all happened, and maybe SA has been saying this, but maybe, just maybe his other lawyers couldn't put it all together. I did notice in the brief that the Menard surveillance video is attached, I would like to see if SA's finger is taped up.

Ya know what I've been thinking for so long though, missy?
The frickin LUCK of this guy!!!!
I mean seriously...what are the gosh darn ODDS that STEVEN " I'VE GOT A TARGET ON MY HEAD " AVERY would cut his finger & DRIP BLOOD at this PRECISE TIME when the cops or RH needed it?????
I mean...ugh...
WHO has LUCK like S.A. has ALL of these YEARS????
Am I the ONLY one who has had this thought???
No need to answer as I don't dare get us going o/t
Just thinking out loud a minute.

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[dexter75]

Ok so... Although KZ's brief didn't deliver the results, that her build up lead us to believe it would contain, complete exoneration is unlikely, lets be real. She also made made the claim, more than once, that she would deliver the real killer. Suggesting a possible alternative suspect, (yes I know...Denny...), is not quite the same thing. The carbon testing, and so much more, just weren't in there.

So yeah, after all this time, I was a bit disappointed. But...

At least we do have REAL PROOF of so many things that we have all known! How many times have "the others" kicked and screamed, "There is NO proof of any planting!" :tantrum: ( the PLANTING was real GUILTERS! HA! ). It will be awful quiet on the "For those who don't think evidence was planted" thread, I'll bet! :great:

( Not that it was all that active anyhow, do to the inability to consider perspectives other than their own. heh).

And at long last, we do have some forward movement! Some of the pieces are there, and although we are, sadly, no closer to learning what really did happen to TH, we have learned more, about the crooked, shady players in this case, with more to come I'm thinking.

Absolutely!
And I DO expect more to come, my friend. Zellner I do believe is just getting started😉

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[dexter75]

The who-dun-it story that KZ presented... it's actually quite surprising at how well she was able to get things to fit, including RH's calls or lack of calls/activity vs the times that lights were seen by SA/CA. SA/CA have been saying that from day 1 too, it's not like it's new info. KZ implies that SA told his attorney's about the blood in the bathroom being cleaned up. He said early on something about smelling cigarette smoke in his trailer too. I would LOVE to see KZ question Ryan ;-)

KZ questioning Ryan?
I'd pay big bucks to see that!

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[Karinna]

I find it astounding that over 40 witnesses stated the relationship between RH & TH was abusive/violent, but he was never investigated properly as a potential suspect after having been in a long term relationship with Theresa previously, as her now ex boyfriend.
I have no doubt either that the Avery's were not a very well liked family in the small town mentality of a place like Manitowoc county.

 

[dexter75]

RH was working too closely with officials...(and MH I might add.), for there not to be more to this than we are getting. I would love to have a "crime scene" but we don't. I still think TH is dead, (for a reason we don't understand.), but she was not murdered at at her home. imo.

Cadaver dogs hit on the shallow grave ect... so yes. I believe she is dead, but I have no idea HOW she died. ( But someone does, a lot of "someones" imo. I think SA was under "unofficial surveillance" this whole time period, and everyone involved knows he didn't kill TH.

That interview RH and MH gave to the press was one of the shadiest things I've ever seen....They both looked like cats that just ate the canary... Rh's scratched up hands, never questioned at all, no alibi given or asked for, from the victims ex...

Something huge is seriously being covered up...

I'm not a " natural " when it comes to much.
One thing I'm GREAT at is reading people and I agree the RH/MH interview was shady shady shady
IMO of course.

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[dexter75]

rsbbm

That's right, she lived in a farmhouse, I remember that now... I just can't see RH, ( who has always seemed like a bit of a wimp to me), driving around with a body, and breaking into SA's trailer and hitting the blood jackpot, has the genius idea of putting it in the rav, ( without knowing for sure,who's blood it even is?), somehow he collects enough, and... Its a reach to me. Very hard to buy. The key might go over a little better, but what does it matter if the key had a ton of DNA they could just argue that SA salivated all over it, or something, He was a creepy guy right... so who knows what nefarious things he might have done, with the key...
The argument that it fell out of the book case and then somehow migrated to land under SA's shoe is better lol!

The, (unconstitutionally obtained), groin swabs, used on the hood latch is the best piece of evidence so far imo. Definite proof of planting there.



She seemed confident all this time that she would get him a complete exoneration. Not a "new trial". I feel like she was not able to deliver all that she had people believing she would.

I was hoping for something huge and definitive. But there is a lot that the state can argue here. Not to mention, nothing solid to tie RH to the crime...



Krunts need to just stop. Now. He is a useless, confirmed habitual liar. Go away you sweaty necrophiliac, no one cares what your "biased unprofessional" opinion might be!
imo

Yes!
This.
Stop!

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[dexter75]

ohhh in regards to the damage to the RAV4...

Northwest of Mr. Avery' s trailer, between the
Avery property and the cul-de-sac at Kuss Road, there was a metal post protruding
approximately 2 ½ feet from the ground.

ETA: looks like they subpoenaed her insurance info too...

Current post-conviction counsel, through its
investigator, has confirmed that Ms. Halbach never filed an insurance claim for this
damage to her vehicle, and further contends that the damage to Ms. Halbach's vehicle
occurred after she left the Avery property on October 31 , 2005. (Response to Subpoena to
Erie Insurance, attached and incorporated herein as P-C Exhibit 59)

Doh!!
All of those months of reading, ( in your case ) linking & looking up page numbers...
Nice to feel like we knew a little bit about what we were talking about & not completely off our rockers😀

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[dexter75]

Suspiciously, Mr. Kratz never played the recording of the 2: 12 p.m. voicemail for the jury. It is reasonable to conclude that Mr. Kratz concealed the 2:12 p.m. voicemail because it confirmed that the Zipperers' residence was Ms. Halbach's last stop. Corroboration of this assertion is found in a recorded conversation between Inv. Wiegert and Det. Remiker on November 5, 2005, about the sequence of Ms. Halbach's appointments on October 31 , 2005. In that conversation, which occurred after interviews with Mr. Schmitz, Mr. Avery, and Mr. Zipperer, they concluded that Ms. Halbach's first appointment was with Mr. Schmitz, her second appointment was with the Averys, and her third appointment was with the Zipperers. (11/5/05 Wiegert/Remiker recording, P-C Exhibit 71). Obviously, Inv. Wiegert and Det. Remiker based their conclusion on the Zipperer voicemail left by Ms. Halbach, which was listened to by investigators on November 3, 2005, at the Zipperer residence and recorded to a CD on November 6, 2005 (11/3/05 CCSD Report, P-C Exhibit 73, STATE 2497), and having interviewed both Mr. Avery and Mr. Zipperer. Clearly, the destruction and/or concealment of Ms. Halbach's voicemail to the Zipperers' leads to the reasonable conclusion that her voicemail refuted Mr. Kratz's timeline and so it was concealed from trial defense counsel.

Do you realize if this is indeed the case...and everyone here KNEW that Zipperers WAS her last stop for the day.. do you realize how absolutely SICK these people are???
JMO

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[dexter75]

OMG~~~there is so much here that we've discussed over and over and over again..

Of the seven messages recorded on October 31, 2005, only two were not deleted. Before October 31, 2005, 15
minutes and 21 seconds of Ms. Halbach's voicemail was occupied by voice messages.

Yes ma'am😉
We were onto something😊

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[dexter75]

OMG~~~~

Realizing such a call would be recorded, Sgt. Colborn removed the license plates from Ms. Halbach's vehicle to conceal that he had actually located the vehicle at the point in time when he made the call about the license plate.

Oh boy Oh Boy~~Colborn's in BIG BIG TROUBLE!!!!

Then again
We all knew this..nice to have confirmation though😊
KZ is brilliant!
We need more like her in this world where so many feel they're above the law & don't care who they step on because well, money talks.

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[htiff]

This may be old news to everyone here, but expert affidavits are posted on Zellner's site:

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/steven-avery

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7022220242/048+-+Affidavit+of+Dr.+Palenik.pdf

I don't see exhibits posted, but there are additional details given as to findings and credentials.

 

[missy1974]

This may be old news to everyone here, but expert affidavits are posted on Zellner's site:

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/steven-avery

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7022220242/048+-+Affidavit+of+Dr.+Palenik.pdf

I don't see exhibits posted, but there are additional details given as to findings and credentials.

Awesome thanks!!!! NOT old news!

Just want to say thanks to everyone... I have been so busy the last few days and I'm dying to read everything and everyone's thoughts and opinions, I am not hitting thanks on every post (I'm reading from my phone sometimes and it's a pain lol), but just know that I am thankful for everyone's posts


:tyou:

 

[missy1974]

This may be old news to everyone here, but expert affidavits are posted on Zellner's site:

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/steven-avery

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...7022220242/048+-+Affidavit+of+Dr.+Palenik.pdf

I don't see exhibits posted, but there are additional details given as to findings and credentials.

SkippTopp has compiled a complete list with direct links to the Exhibit's available.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6g9xmn/list_of_exhibits_from_zellnami/

 

[htiff]

SkippTopp has compiled a complete list with direct links to the Exhibit's available.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TickTockManitowoc/comments/6g9xmn/list_of_exhibits_from_zellnami/

Thank you. That's excellent. Are the posted exhibits from the first Zellner appeal?

 

[missy1974]

Thank you. That's excellent. Are the posted exhibits from the first Zellner appeal?

sorry, I'm going back and forth and reading tidbits here and there lol I think he has listed the Exhibits in order from the brief filed on Wednesday, my guess is that he will update as things are added. I am sure he's doing it so he knows which one's he might have to request and get from the Court himself, he did post yesterday that he didn't want to pay for them if KZ was going to post them or a news station, no one wants to give Manitowoc County more money then they deserve lol

On another note... I have glanced at some of the affidavits from the experts... their credentials are impressive!

Bennett Gershman - affidavit about KK and his unethical behaviour. It's nice to see we were not all crazy. How anyone can stand behind this behaviour is beyond me. JMO

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...85471/096+-+Affidavit+of+Bennett+Gershman.pdf

 

[Jaiddie]

Someone from the family fb group apparently has access to some of the exhibit photos and she has posted screenshots. I do believe the mystery of #checkaduhid is solved as one of the photos shows an ad for TH photography business. I also think that this was probably the start of counsel's Gentleman Agreement too.

https://imgur.com/gallery/4jJmu

https://imgur.com/gallery/EjEpm

Btw....the ad in question is located around the middle of the first page I posted.

Edited for: corrected wording.

 

[LaneGirl]

Ok I have to say reading some of the affidavits is helping me feel much much better about the brief