Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[Lux et Veritas]

How is it that rhino poachers get 40 years for killing a rhino but OP gets 10 months for killing a woman?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Wow, I feel like I’ve just been hit by a lightning bolt. Duh. LOL

Cops found OP’s gun cocked and ready to fire.

Until right this second, I really never gave that fact much scrutiny.

Just stop and think what that means - he was ready to shoot AGAIN.
(Is such hard evidence not the very definition of intent?)

What stopped him from shooting a 5th time?

I can think of only one scenario.

After breaking down the door, he was fully prepared to shoot Reeva again if she was still alive.

Dead women tell no tales ... or the true story.

His “beloved” Reeva “died in his arms” at the bottom of the stairs.

NO.

He used a dead woman as a prop to play out his tragic-hero story in front of witnesses.

The man is a vile psychopath.

 

[jay-jay]

I heard that bit about Sam Taylor getting locked in for hours.

~rsbm~

.. actually, that makes me wonder even more now if OP didn't just lock Reeva in the toilet himself, seeing as he has 'form' (and then make up a *advertiser censored* and bull story about retrieving the key from the inside of the toilet cubicle). I think she was going to leave, and he didn't want her to leave because it was such a blow to his ego, so he locked her in there from the outside. I'm not sure he ever said 'Get the **** out of my house .. get the **** out of my house', not even to her .. who knows .. he made just have made this up because he had to have said something in his intruder version, and it couldn't be 'Who's in there?' (because that would mean Reeva would have to have answered) or 'Come out with your hands in the air' (because again, Reeva would have to have answered plus it wouldn't match with him blasting someone to bits before they had even had the opportunity to do so).

I can't help feeling this is the reason why she was standing directly behind the door like that, and that she was pleading with him to let her out.

 

[Cherwell]

If he CAN get bail I absolutely believe the Masipa would GRANT OP bail.

Why?

1. She can
2. She feels he's being unfairly picked on by the state in appealing
3. PERHAPS, to "put it to" the state for appealing (her verdict).

I don't understand your point 3.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's 4am here so excuse me if I've recalled incorrectly, but didn't OP claim to have said he had advised his cousin to not drive out to OP's place in his new vehicle? Was it on the calls from the 13th when that was supposed to have happened?

Why would a young man spend time(20+-? mins) talking to a male cousin instead of trying to sex up his hot new gf the night before Valentine's Day, unless it was all just a publicity stunt for both of them? The usual reason you would think, given his "******" morning news, would probably be money woes, but perhaps it had something to do with OP's feud with ST's millionaire and Batchelor?

He had had stitches previously due to his inability to let his previous ex go without a fight, even though he was already in a new public relationship, perhaps there had been some ongoing tit for tat going on that OP was scared might be coming "home" to roost that he was having his cousin help him with(weren't his cousins acting as bodyguards during the trial too?)? Heck, the whole JE thing could easily have stirred up some bad blood and not just between OP and RS, wasn't JE engaged to someone else at the time that OP may have been concerned about?

So looking at possible reasons for an argument, if OP was feeling guilty for whatever was going on between him and JE, then add to that RS's coffee with her ex, then the possible news that his lawsuit over the assault charges was still a problem and maybe even getting word that he might be getting dropped as a sponsor for whatever reason(poor loser, etc) and then to have RS with her new contract and a new tv show about to kick off(even if they weren't in a "real" relationship, the brand trumps all it seems and that wouldn't be good for his).... let's just say that A type personalities don't often do well in second place, it's black and white to them, win or lose.

Yes, he had and it struck me immediately as a rather strange. Binge's car would have been at risk?? Despite security etc.?? - What did he plan, why not meet his cousin? Did he know already, that the evening would be "special"????

 

[Lux et Veritas]

How can a killing “border” on dolus eventualis?

The law is not ambiguous on this point (especially in light of SA’s strict gun laws and OP’s gun certification).

Either it’s murder or it’s not.

What weasel words! Was Masipa trying to taunt and placate the State at the same time?

No, my very favorite murder-accused is not going down for murder but I thought I’d mention the “border” thing as your consolation prize, Nel. Yes, I know the sorry, lying SOB murdered her, but well, I just feel so dang sorry for him. All that puking, heaving, wailing and faux-remorse-stuff must be exhausting, poor dear!

She’s like the kindly old grandmother, who just can’t bring herself to deliver a well-deserved, badly-needed azz-warming. Her idea of punishment is a couple sharp thwacks on the knuckles with a wooden ruler. “Kids! But what are you going to do? LOL Now go outside and play, Ozzie and BEHAVE ... or I’ll have to call your Uncle Arnie to put you in a time out!”

I swear, she should be brought up on sanctions for overt bias, incompetency and extreme dereliction of judicial duty.

 

[4MrsB]

Maybe the inside of the toilet has seen some "wood movement" after all...

I did a total "belly laugh" reading that one. Too funny Pandax!!! :daisy:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m8m9R3D31M

His PR machine made him untouchable - only one sentence in this interesting video.

 

[foxbluff]

No, I don't think this was about Greyvenstein and Divaris. They are, or were, not married, and Reeva said 'husband'.
I think it was clarified somewhere that she was talking about another friend of hers.

Thinking about it some more, if it was Divaris, she wouldn't have said "hitting on my friend Sam's husband". She would have said ""hitting on Justin".

Additionally, IIRC, OP didn't know who the man was and became further miffed that RS failed to introduce him. Justin Divaris was one of OP's best friends so no introduction would have been needed.

 

[4MrsB]

At least he is allowed visitors with bags, just imagine those guys who spent years on the island. Some weren't even allowed visitors. The Steenkamps must visit ashes how sad!
- Djembe Ndebele, comments

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Oscars-father-arrives-first-to-visit-20141026

Based on some of the descriptions of the bags being carried in and what his Dad was holding it appears a possibility that OP has: TV, DVD Player, and an XBox, PlayStation or similar device in his cell. Is that the norm I wonder? (Additionally: if Aimee addressing tweet to both he and Carl, maybe he has a computer or cell phone. Not such a big stretch after seeing photo in court when OP being led down stairs and Uncle slips phone into OP's hand - exchange caught in photo. But hopefully that was taken away at the jail, before heading to prison.)

Also appears, based on article LUX linked to, that he has met his "monthly visitor max" during one single Sat. (Although, perhaps since it states 4 visitors per month, and it being the end of the month in October....he received a clean slate starting Nov. 1st.)

 

[foxbluff]

Based on some of the descriptions of the bags being carried in and what his Dad was holding it appears a possibility that OP has: TV, DVD Player, and an XBox, PlayStation or similar device in his cell. Is that the norm I wonder? (Additionally: if Aimee addressing tweet to both he and Carl, maybe he has a computer or cell phone. Not such a big stretch after seeing photo in court when OP being led down stairs and Uncle slips phone into OP's hand - exchange caught in photo. But hopefully that was taken away at the jail, before heading to prison.)

Also appears, based on article LUX linked to, that he has met his "monthly visitor max" during one single Sat. (Although, perhaps since it states 4 visitors per month, and it being the end of the month in October....he received a clean slate starting Nov. 1st.)

I think OP probably already had his cell phone in Court that day. I read somewhere that before he was led away that he handed his wristwatch to one of his relatives. So, perhaps he was handing his phone to his uncle rather than the other way round.

 

[Val1]

Ok, only because there is a lull in Pistorius news and I had a spare 10 mins.

And yes I have been known to read the occasional Cosmo.

It's Rihanna on the cover, June 2008

View attachment 62915

http://www.atclinic.co.za/publications

Thanks, now why in the world would OP have an almost 5 year old copy of that, anywhere in his house? Was he in that list of 101 and liked to reassure himself, or flaunt it?

Edit: I just read the article in your second link, quite interesting given OP's defence re Derman. So did he seek help in 2008 or since(but before he killed RS) as per the article and how did he get the magazine... did someone conveniently leave it at his place hoping he'd read it and seek help?

Also, going back to my observation re the books in his kitchen, I noted that in this video there were no books but there were pics that appeared to be the same though I haven't actually compared them properly, yet. In fact, what it did show of his place it looked pretty stark, no couch or fans visible in the bedroom either...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIme8MrOpwU

 

[LemonMousse]

Thanks, now why in the world would OP have an almost 5 year old copy of that, anywhere in his house? Was he in that list of 101 and liked to reassure himself, or flaunt it?

Reminds me of that episode of Extras with Orlando Bloom....who was "accidentally" reading an article that said he was the world's sexiest man. "Just sooooooooo embarrassing" *fake eye roll*.

Hee hee

Pistorius strikes me as someone with very low self-esteem, (the root of narcissism, btw), especially when it comes to women...so yes, I bet he did hang on to it to pathetically show off with or reassure his little (huge) ego.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

THEORY: No big secrets were at play the night of Feb 14. Reeva was simply at the wrong place, wrong time when OP snapped; he took out his anger on her - the nearest available target.

This is a guy who was already dangerously irate with TWO women when he suddenly dived headlong into a relationship with RS.

Explosive, unresolved relationship issues with Sam Taylor (assault to ego).
Explosive, unresolved legal issues with Cassidy Taylor-Memmory (assault to career/image/money).

(I suspect his “financial meeting” that very morning was regarding the lawsuit.)

OP felt himself drowning in impotent anger and 100% loss of control with these two massive losses.

To complicate matters ... the seemingly ever-present 'Babyshoes' seemed to be a (semi)permanent fixture in that volatile mix.

That night, a small, “offensive” spark by Reeva (whether verbal and/or action) may have innocently triggered OP’s pent-up hostilities into full-blown berserker mode (doesn’t seem to take much to set him off).

During that lethal rage, he subconsciously projected Sam, Cassidy and Reeva (and certain other past/present females?) as “one”* ... the “perfect storm” of nasty, hateful, hurtful women who all wanted to screw him over, one-up him and control him.

OP has a pathological need to totally dominate, to “win”.

Violence is the ultimate control, the ultimate revenge ... at least for 10 seconds until you come out of the red mist ether and reality kicks you in the cojones.

Romantic rebounds + anger / career / PR / financial issues + narcissism + guns never ends well.

Given OP’s character, aggressive personality and history, this disaster was all but guaranteed.

Had it not been Reeva it would have eventually been some other unfortunate woman.

She was simply the nearest, easiest scapegoat in his desperate bid to reclaim power, control and dominance.

Is this scenario plausible?


* It certainly doesn’t help that all the ladies in OP’s life seem to be more or less interchangeable clones in certain crucial aspects - long blonde-hair + model-type beauty. Whether all their personalities are similar is anyone’s guess, but I’m guessing OP strongly gravitates to the sweet, innocent, kind, generous, warm, compassionate type. Perhaps after a while, all these “clones” start to blur together, he confuses one with the other ... especially if all those relationships were “fiery”, turbulent and full of endless conflict and drama (see Oscar Pistorius, common denominator).

 

[Val1]

Reminds me of that episode of Extras with Orlando Bloom....who was "accidentally" reading an article that said he was the world's sexiest man. "Just sooooooooo embarrassing" *fake eye roll*.

Hee hee

Pistorius strikes me as someone with very low self-esteem, (the root of narcissism, btw), especially when it comes to women...so yes, I bet he did hang on to it to pathetically show off with or reassure his little (huge) ego.

Lol well that was certainly my first thoughts on it but re my edit, perhaps the magazine was a "gift" from someone...

 

[44ALLAN]

Maybe the inside of the toilet has seen some "wood movement" after all...

Only he was makings stools and not magazine racks....................I'll get my coat:deadhorse:

 

[G.bng]

Who says they did? Isn't this hearsay reported by newspapers? I think it's enough for me to stick with speculation around the evidence presented in court otherwise I'll be into conspiracy theories which can lead anywhere, as anything becomes possible.

BIB:
Wise idea.

There were many rumours about the case at the beginning. Rumours discussed extensively in past threads and debunked, yet every now and then they turn up thrown into the mix as if they were breaking news, sometimes by those who've been here all along. I wouldn't have the time or patience to find them all even if I wanted to but the three below were all reported to have been leaked by a "police source":

• RUMOUR: Reeva's head had been crushed with the cricket bat. DEBUNKED by: A) Saymaan whose report concluded there were no injuries whatsoever to indicate she had been beaten with the cricket bat, B) The photo of Reeva's head, C) The State who not once during the bail hearing or the trial referred to OP beating Reeva with the cricket bat less still crushing her head with it.

• RUMOUR: Reeva was first shot in the hip in the bedroom from where she fled and locked herself in the toilet and there, doubled over in pain, she was shot three more times which was reported extensively by the press as per the linked example. DEBUNKED by: A) Saayman who testified that the hip wound would have caused immediate instability and she would have found it difficult to get back up without gripping on to something, B) Van der Nest who confirmed that Oscar Pistorious's version of events was consistent with the blood spatter evidence, C) Two ballistic expert's who testified that Reeva was shot in the toilet with the first bullet hitting her in the hip.

• RUMOUR: The police arrived to find OP's trophies strewn all around: DEBUNKED by: A) Botha in an interview for Vanity Fair who described OP's house when he arrived at the scene as, "... a big house and very neat and tidy... ...There were shelves stacked with trophies..."; B) Van Rensburg who in testimony confirmed that,"the photos reflected accurately how he found the scene when he arrived just before 4 a.m. on Feb. 14, 2013 while the Huffington Post reporter present in court reporting Rensburg's testimony described one photo Nel was showing on screen as, "Blood stains from the severe wounds he inflicted on his girlfriend were splattered on a white wall close to a group of glittering trophies..." ; C) The photo used for the Daily Star report about OP's trophies being strewed around neither shows trophies strewn around nor is of the scene since it is captioned, "Blade runner's silverware was tidy in magazine pic but not on night of Steenkamp killing"; and last but not least, D) The State never once mentioned either during the bail hearing or the trial that the police found trophies strewn around nor did they show a single photo to that effect even though they did show photos of signs of what they believed evidence of an argument, e.g., the dented bath panel and the hole in the bedroom door, presumably hoping the judge may draw inferences from them. Clearly if the police had found trophies strewn around it would have been the single most important, in-contradictable, damning and determinative evidence of a fight that ended in murder that the State would have had so it is unfathomable they would neither mention nor show photographs of this had it been true.

PS: Perhaps somewhat tardy, you really have done some stupendous and thorough work on the case, and even if there are many things I don't agree with you on you have certainly given me more than a few ideas to consider and think about. Thank you. : - )

 

[G.bng]

Why? Why would you grant him bail?

Maybe because by remaining in prison he is occupying jail space and costing the State money when an appeal has even the potential to acquit him (as Nair suggested the court might at the bail hearing) or reduce his sentence to suspended.

 

[mister happy]

Only he was makings stools and not magazine racks....................I'll get my coat:deadhorse:

I'd hate to be one of his stoolies.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes Mr Fossil, it is allowed for by s 321 of the Criminal Procedure Act:

321 When execution of sentence may be suspended
(1) The execution of the sentence of a superior court shall not be suspended by reason of any appeal against a conviction or by reason of any question of law having been reserved for consideration by the court of appeal, unless-
(a) ......
[Para. (a) deleted by s. 2 of Act 33 of 1997.]
(b) the superior court from which the appeal is made or by which the question is reserved thinks fit to order that the accused be released on bail or that he be treated as an unconvicted prisoner until the appeal or the question reserved has been heard and decided

I don't think would apply as the CH conviction is not being appealed.

In theory I guess Masipa's sentence could be reduced on appeal but it seems unlikely unless the defence actually cross appeal.