Post sentencing discussion

[Cherwell]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/

This news report link has already been posted by FromGermany, but worth mentioning again as there are some interesting revelations. Well worth reading in full.

A source close to the family said there was “definitely great unhappiness” about the legal fees which were “much higher” than the family expected.

Pistorius’ uncle, Arnold Pistorius, has told family members he is considering having the bill “taxed and assessed”. Any client unhappy with their legal costs can approach the Taxing Master of the court for a “taxation of costs”. The legal team would need to justify the reasonableness of the costs being claimed, and the issue is then decided by the Taxing Master.

A source close to the legal team says Arnold Pistorius has refused to cover the outstanding amount, believing his nephew should be responsible for the bill.

Pistorius, the family source said, has also accepted that his athletics career is over and that he will never participate again. He hasn’t trained for 18 months.

City Press understands that the R17.5 million legal bill consists not only of Roux’s legal fees and that of his team, but also some of the experts who testified in Pistorius’ defence during the trial.

Wonder if Dixon and Wollie have been paid yet?

 

[ApplesInMyBra]

I've added a second tab to my new interpretation of the witness testimony to test the time events take, their logical dependencies and constraints, and to confirm whether the suggested sequence is plausible. So far, so good, but it's still a work in progress. Views on event times or concerns are welcome.

Dear Mr Fossil, what thorough and excellent analysis! Thank you for sharing this with us all! I wonder if you plan on sharing with with David Dadic and Nel as well?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I've added a second tab to my new interpretation of the witness testimony to test the time events take, their logical dependencies and constraints, and to confirm whether the suggested sequence is plausible. So far, so good, but it's still a work in progress. Views on event times or concerns are welcome.

Great work Mr Fossil

 

[soozieqtips]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/

This news report link has already been posted by FromGermany, but worth mentioning again as there are some interesting revelations. Well worth reading in full.


Wonder if Dixon and Wollie have been paid yet?

If he paid the 'sound' expert, he should definitely get a refund!! I thought OP had several racehorses, and sold just one to help with his fees? And what about the financial information that was stored on the USB drive? Were the details of these accounts ever made public? I think OP wants everyone to think he's broke, but his definition of broke is probably my definition of filthy stinking rich. I bet he has money stored somewhere that he doesn't want anyone to know about (outside his "circle of trust").

 

[Cherwell]

If he paid the 'sound' expert, he should definitely get a refund!! I thought OP had several racehorses, and sold just one to help with his fees? And what about the financial information that was stored on the USB drive? Were the details of these accounts ever made public? I think OP wants everyone to think he's broke, but his definition of broke is probably my definition of filthy stinking rich. I bet he has money stored somewhere that he doesn't want anyone to know about (outside his "circle of trust").

If he does, does Arnold know about it? I bet he's just about had enough of all this. I should think he's glad to have OP out of his house at last. :giggle:

 

[Interested Bystander]

If he paid the 'sound' expert, he should definitely get a refund!! I thought OP had several racehorses, and sold just one to help with his fees? And what about the financial information that was stored on the USB drive? Were the details of these accounts ever made public? I think OP wants everyone to think he's broke, but his definition of broke is probably my definition of filthy stinking rich. I bet he has money stored somewhere that he doesn't want anyone to know about (outside his "circle of trust").

I did read somewhere how much OP owed on most of his houses. In some cases it was almost the total amount of the bond. So I guess he looked rich, and might well have been after a number of years, but didn't actually own these properties outright. He was obviously banking on making a large sum during the next few years to enable him to pay off his loans. Instead he has had to use a his properties, racehorse interest, it seems his car, to pay off his debts. Good thing too. Perhaps he will learn the real value of an income and how to live within it when he next gets a chance to work. However, it would not suprise me if he does have some monies stashed away in an offshore account but perhaps not as much as we think.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Dear Mr Fossil, what thorough and excellent analysis! Thank you for sharing this with us all! I wonder if you plan on sharing with with David Dadic and Nel as well?

Thank you. I sent a link to it, along with a series of questions (and my views) to Captain Möller on Friday afternoon and can confirm that he has looked at it.

 

[jay-jay]

Barry Bateman on twitter today:

12.1.2013 19:03:43 UTC
Whatsapp Oscar to Reeva

"I felt so close to you last night, when we made love and sometimes I just feel venerable ...
................... I don't want a mediocre relationship, I feel like we have a beautiful connection .............."

BBM .. that really is a most peculiar thing to say to someone you made love with

Yes, it does suggest June is wrong.

The next bit is interesting too:

"It makes me smile so much cause I know you putting me first. I just want that cause I know I need that for it to work."

... me, me, me .. :notgood:

 

[Sherbert]

BBM .. that really is a most peculiar thing to say to someone you made love with



... me, me, me .. :notgood:

I presume he meant 'vulnerable'. Maybe, he should spend some of his time inside brushing up on his vocabulary...

I'm sure dating him would have been very work indeed. No wonder Reeva sometimes looked really cheesed off.

 

[BritsKate]

It's so sad that they can say they feel that she was shot in a DV case, but have to be happy with that short sentence because he could have just ended up with house arrest and a few hours community service - or am I reading too much into her comment?

I think we need to put it into context. South Africa has a depressingly low conviction rate for homicide. For the Steenkamps, it may well be a relief he was convicted at all, considering his race, fame, fortune and statistics. I think we may, having followed quite a few of these cases all across the globe, expect a great deal more from any criminal justice system.

I know I certainly did.

 

[Interested Bystander]

BBM .. that really is a most peculiar thing to say to someone you made love with



... me, me, me .. :notgood:

Maybe he will become a clergyman sometime and be called the Venerable Oscar Pistorius. He did, after all, in front of Mr Stipp, offer his services to God if Reeva lived (all the time no doubt thinking I hope she really is dead). I am not sure he would get many parishioners unless they all carried guns to ensure their safety. Perhaps a prison chaplain, no guns allowed? Somehow I cannot see him giving up the high life to wear a cassock and tend to the poor. Am I being uncharitable? ..... YES

:floorlaugh:

 

[Cherwell]

I presume he meant 'vulnerable'. Maybe, he should spend some of his time inside brushing up on his vocabulary...

'Venomous' might be nearer the mark.

Of course he would blame predictive text, it wouldn't be his fault, oh no.

 

[AW2B]

The Making and Unmaking of Oscar Pistorius

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26628573

 

[soozieqtips]

I find it very hard to believe he was only worth £1m!!! Didn't he get more than that just from sponsors? How could a £1m legal bill have completely broken him financially?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...storius-spent-1m-defending-murder-charge.html

 

[cottonweaver]

Pistorius broke?

Telegraph article tonight- Pistorius's legal team, which included two senior barristers and three additional lawyers attending court throughout, was rumoured to have cost £1 million. "Sources close to the athlete's legal team said of R17m (£995,000) run up in the course of his seven-month trial, R10m remained unpaid at the end of his trial"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...storius-spent-1m-defending-murder-charge.html


From 2013 article - "Pistorius’s family is super-rich
in his statement applying for bail, Pistorius said that he owned properties worth R8,3 million and earned R5,6 million a year. Along with his brother, Carl, he is co-director of four companies — Epic Exposure Advertising & Branding, Epic Exposure Gauteng Advertising and Branding, Epic Expression and Solutions and Vula Media."
http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=96515

I still find it hard to believe he is broke too.

 

[Sherbert]

I don't think we have any reliable evidence as to the speed of these first bangs. In support of the door, I have OP on his stumps, strong enough to pull it but unable to maintain his balance, hence she pulls it away from him twice with force (the first slam is Reeva rushing into the toilet). That could be very loud (I tried it and think it could even be louder than a cricket bat). I liken it to the bang you hear when the wind catches a door and slams it shut.

But the first sounds could be anything. The theory is basically the sequence, not necessarily the cause for the first set of sounds that the Stipps hear.

An alternative

I did have OP firing three warning shots out of the window to scare Reeva as an alternative. The picture of the gun magazine doesn't confirm or otherwise how many bullets have been used (I know it's not proof they were fired that night but having too many bullets might suggest they weren't) but I wondered if that would have woken more people (given nearly everyone hears the actual gunshots). And guess how the spent bullet casings are removed? Reeva's bag ... which OP is at pains to point out (for no apparent reason) that he didn't go into.

View attachment 62147

The magazine holds 17 bullets (plus the gun can be one up, making a total capacity of 18). You can see the numbers 5, 10 and 17 marked on the magazine just under the holes. There are at least 10 bullets left in the magazine (plus the one from the gun I assume) but that's as much as I can work out.

I have revised the Witness testimony analysis 2 to reflect the above (see the comment on 'Toilet door slams or warning shots' in the OP column).

Views on this or any other alternatives welcome!

In answer to your last point, if we're talking WhatsApps then it doesn't naturally run on an iPad (although it can be made to). We don't know how his Messages (SMS and iMessages) were set up (e.g. whether they show on both devices - I doubt it, he's too guarded IMO) or whether his messages (including WhatsApps) appear as a Notification on the front screen (again, too guarded, so I think not).

Thanks for your reply, Mr Fossil.

I'm afraid I've been thinking about the iPads again - I'm really keen to know when the browsing history on the two iPads found at the scene was deleted. Did OP delete the histories before or after he shot Reeva? I would think before, given that the history relating to his *advertiser censored* surfing still remained. If before, does this mean that Reeva had access to the iPads and he didn't want her to be able to check up on him? I'm sure that a deleted history would have made her very suspicious. Had both iPads been synced with each other, I wonder?

And what about Reeva's own iPad? Do we know if this was ever examined by Moller? Initially, there were rumours that Reeva had received messages from Francois Hougaard, but I suspect that these rumours have not been substantiated and I'm pretty sure that Hougaard denied any involvement.

I realise that our primary theory is that Reeva saw something on OP's iPhone, but I was also wondering if he may have picked up her iPad when she went downstairs for a snack. If he did, he could easily have read her iMessages.

Also, I think there's a way to do the syncing via iTunes. If they'd shared stuff via iTunes, a suspicious Reeva may have been able to sync OP's iPhone with his iPad herself. Is this possible?

Samantha Taylor's evidence regarding Jenna Edkin's whatsapps popping up is really useful - I can see that happening with Reeva, too. However, I posted before that I thought Reeva slept in the spare room that night, for the following reasons:

1. I thought OP's peculiar tooth-brushing scenario was intended to reinforce the picture that they slept in the same bed that night.
2. His evidence that, if she'd gone downstairs for a snack, he'd have known about it, suggested to me that they'd slept apart.

So, if they did retire to bed that night, on balance, I think they went separately; alternatively, they rowed on and off all evening and didn't go to bed at all. This would also explain his evidence at 1. and 2. above.

 

[soozieqtips]

The Making and Unmaking of Oscar Pistorius

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26628573

From that link:

"He didn't like to be reminded that he was different because mentally he wasn't different," says Gianni Merlo, who co-authored Pistorius's book. "This was because of the way his mother brought him up as a kid. He has a spirit that is completely different because he was born that way.
Without knowing what it feels like to be normal, you feel normal."

Funny then how his entire character appeared to change during testimony, when he wanted everyone to believe he was utterly vulnerable, terrified, in fear for his life, after having been the victim of 'several' crimes (none of which were reported, and one in which he had no idea of who he called after his near-death experience on the highway!)

Without knowing what it feels like to be normal, you feel normal.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Reeva’s parents clearly love each other very much.
I’m so glad they have each other and their loving, supportive family and friends.
June and Barry raised a wonderful daughter.

The Pistorius clan must live with what they raised.

 

[G.bng]

Before the pic was taken he was allowed to wash his "hands" yep literarly

And iirc he was allowed to remove his T-shirt and wash his chest and face etc.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

An untold story: all about Reeva Steenkamp

During the seven-month trial of Oscar Pistorius one story was barely told: that of his victim.
Jane Flanagan in Pretoria reports on the too-short life of Reeva Steenkamp

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle...-steenkamp-9813188.html?origin=internalSearch