Post sentencing discussion

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/Oscar_Pistorius/Schultz-steals-some-of-Oscars-spotlight-20141017

Johannesburg - Self-confessed killer Mikey Schultz stole 30% of Paralympian Oscar Pistorius's usual media and social network coverage over the last 24 hours, a media monitoring organisation said on Friday.

"Schultz stormed onto the chart yesterday [Thursday] with a whopping 30% of the Oscar coverage," said Return on Innovation Africa (ROI) managing director Tonya Khoury in a statement.

"This was because of the alleged threat he made... in court... and his subsequent swearing on a radio interview yesterday."

ROI is a media intelligence organisation that monitors over 206 platforms, including news and social media, across 100 countries.

Schultz went to the North Gauteng High Court on Thursday and sat in the same row as the Pistorius family, despite it being reserved for them.



I like that stealing some of OP's spotlight!

 

[akp]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...face-stiffer-jail-term-1.1771473#.VE_KzcnVTUk

Oscar may face stiffer jail term
October 28 2014 at 07:42am
By Zelda Venter

Johann Engelbrecht SC, one of the country’s top criminal advocates, is doubtful if the prosecution’s appeal would be successful.

“According to me, the judge did not err – both regarding conviction and sentence.”

Engelbrecht said the judge correctly arrived at her verdict by analysing all the evidence.

In his opinion she also meted out a fair sentence. “He is not a danger to society and should thus not serve a long jail sentence.”

Engelbrecht is of the opinion that the appeal, if granted by Judge Masipa, will be heard by the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein, as it involves matters in law.

City lawyer Ferdinand Hartzenberg is also sceptical over whether the State will succeed on appeal.

“You have to look at the facts in this case. The facts led the judge to a culpable homicide conviction.

“I don’t think she erred in law in coming to this conclusion. There was a lot of character assassination in this case, which had nothing to do with the facts.”

He feels Pistorius received a just sentence. “There are many people convicted of culpable homicide, who do not spend a day in jail. Taking into account that Pistorius is a first offender, I don’t think his sentence is shockingly inappropriate.”

All I can say is, let us hope these law experts do not go on to become judges some day. For the sake of their own country.

 

[soozieqtips]

All I can say is, let us hope these law experts do not go on to become judges some day. For the sake of their own country.

Especially as OP was not strictly a first-time offender. He just happened to have weaseled his way out of being punished for the other crimes. Reeva's killing was the first time he was held to account, but it most certainly was not his first offence.

 

[foxbluff]

It has also emerged that the athlete sported a mysterious black eye in a video filmed a month ago for a charity campaign.
The Paralympian lent his support to a South African *campaign for gay and lesbian youth. But charity bosses were surprised when he turned up for filming with a black eye.

In the video message recorded to raise awareness for the It Gets Better campaign in South Africa, Oscar instructed young people who were being bullied about their sexuality to 'not retaliate'.

An It Gets Better charity source told the Sunday Mirror: 'Oscar turned up on the day of filming with a very angry *looking black eye.

'Oscar was keen for the filming to still go ahead and didn’t seem to mind too much. Although eyebrows were raised, Oscar wasn’t forthcoming on how he managed to get the injury.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-arrives-Pistoriuss-home.html#ixzz3HPYUbNbQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.mambaonline.com/article.asp?artid=7888

PISTORIUS DROPPED FROM GAY YOUTH CAMPAIGN
Mon, 18 February 2013

Maybe, this is another "accident/incident" which is still missing on the long list, JJ?

1st Sentence BBM - I had seen the first link before which let us know that the black-eye-vid took place around Jan. 24, 2013, but I was never able to find out where the vid shoot took place.

I had never seen the below link (Ty) before. Does anybody know if vid was shot in Cape Town? If so, then the vid was most likely taken while OP and buddies were on their extended road trip to Cape Town... the road trip which imo caused RS to say in that long WhatsApp mgs complaining about OP's behavior towards her on Jan. 26 & 27: "you have picked on me incessantly since you got back from CT."

http://www.mambaonline.com/article.asp?artid=7888
<snipped>The South African videos will be launched as part of the Cape Town Holocaust Centre’s In Whom Can I Still Trust? exhibition, which looks at homophobia in Nazi Germany and the gay rights movement in South Africa, on February 20 at 7:00 pm. <snipped>

 

[foxbluff]

I guess that Reeva would have noticed his black eye. Were there any SMS messages in January that might refer to this type of thing in a not obvious way?

Would make up have worked to cover it up?[/QUOTE]

BBM - I had wondered why he didn't have Gina (I believe she's the one that's a make-up artist) apply make-up to it. Now, however, I don't think she would have been available as I now believe video shoot took place while OP and buddies were enjoying an extended road trip to Cape Town.

Be that as it may, I don't know why he wouldn't have gotten somebody in Cape Town (or wherever) to apply makeup.

 

[AW2B]

I'm sorry to have to tell you that this is totally incorrect. If the two assessors overrule her on the facts, she cannot find him guilty of anything. It's a majority who decide the facts, i.e. judge and one assessor, or the two assessors. The judge alone decides the sentence but she can discuss this with the assessors if she chooses to do so.

Judges' decisions are overruled all the time. Why do you think there are Courts of Appeal?

Here's a link you might care to look at. Scroll down to The Assessors' Role at the foot of the page.

http://www.mediaclubsouthafrica.com/democracy/3759-assessors-can-decide-pistorius-s-fate

I'm sorry that I have to tell you this..you took my comment/reply completely out of context. I was replying to a post about someone theorizing that Masipa found him not guilty of murder ON PURPOSE..giving the PT a chance to appeal it and win a murder conviction ...she supposedly did that to guarantee that he will be convicted of murder...so I replied that no judge would want their verdict reversed..in other words, no judge would do that on purpose.
Everything else you said about the assessors's role..etc..etc..I already know long ago when I followed the case..I believe I even posted about it..
Your question "Why do you think there are Courts of Appeal?" is condescending..

 

[patCee]

I don't know about the 'It's Better Campaign' video but.....it seems that OP got the black eye at a party shortly after returning from the Olympics. He had found out S Taylor had been seeing Van de Burgh and got into an altercation with Shultz and co. about it. In Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman, Shultz is quoted re the meeting he and OP had with the Hawks. "Oscar couldn't look at me, he was shaking. He had a black eye and he had stitches in his head from the party. He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...lved in previous aggressive incidents&f=false

Scroll down to chapter 'A Lioness' Legacy' then to the 6th page.

 

[ckra1000]

There is always an advocate for the defendant and both advocates will present Heads of Argument. The appeal process is costly. A full transcript of the entire proceedings has to be provided to each member of the full bench, and this consists of 3 or 5 judges. I don't know what other costs are involved. From what I've seen, the appeal itself usually only takes a couple of days and a decision is made within a matter of days. OP will not be required to attend. Obviously it's going to take quite a long time for all the judges to read the full transcript, and they must read it in its entirety.

As this is such an important case for SA, I'm hoping it will be a 5 judge bench. Each judge is required to provide a judgment with reasons as to how he/she reached their decision. The decision will be that reached by the majority. When the judgment is delivered, it will be available for everyone to read it as before, however only one judgment will be published and at the end will be a summary of what the other judges said.

Masipa will not be one of the judges hearing the appeal.

I think it will probably take 12-18 months before it's heard in the Supreme Court of Appeal.

@JudgeJudi - do you know if Masipa has ANY input to the process ? Does she have to explain why she came to her conclusion ?

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know about the 'It's Better Campaign' video but.....it seems that OP got the black eye at a party shortly after returning from the Olympics. He had found out S Taylor had been seeing Van de Burgh and got into an altercation with Shultz and co. about it. In Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman, Shultz is quoted re the meeting he and OP had with the Hawks. "Oscar couldn't look at me, he was shaking. He had a black eye and he had stitches in his head from the party. He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...lved in previous aggressive incidents&f=false

Scroll down to chapter 'A Lioness' Legacy' then to the 6th page.

Maybe so, but these are two different occasions. The video for the gay charity was apparently filmed in January 2013.

He's probably been given numerous black eyes, such a charmer as he is.

 

[AW2B]

Thank you so much, AW2B. That did indeed work for me though it took about (20) mins. for my slow dial-up to open. lol

After coming back to WS, I saw @Mr.Fossil's post of data links just below your reply. I clicked on "phone usage" link and within (3) mins it OPENED!!! Hooray!

I'm glad it worked..as you said Mr Fossil posted a different link that goes directly to his page..:toast:

 

[jay-jay]

I don't know about the 'It's Better Campaign' video but.....it seems that OP got the black eye at a party shortly after returning from the Olympics. He had found out S Taylor had been seeing Van de Burgh and got into an altercation with Shultz and co. about it. In Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman, Shultz is quoted re the meeting he and OP had with the Hawks. "Oscar couldn't look at me, he was shaking. He had a black eye and he had stitches in his head from the party. He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...lved in previous aggressive incidents&f=false

Scroll down to chapter 'A Lioness' Legacy' then to the 6th page.

Dear god .. he really was an accident waiting to happen. Poor Reeva :-(

 

[Sherbert]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-afr...face-stiffer-jail-term-1.1771473#.VE_KzcnVTUk

Oscar may face stiffer jail term
October 28 2014 at 07:42am
By Zelda Venter

Johann Engelbrecht SC, one of the country&#8217;s top criminal advocates, is doubtful if the prosecution&#8217;s appeal would be successful.

&#8220;According to me, the judge did not err &#8211; both regarding conviction and sentence.&#8221;

Engelbrecht said the judge correctly arrived at her verdict by analysing all the evidence.

In his opinion she also meted out a fair sentence. &#8220;He is not a danger to society and should thus not serve a long jail sentence.&#8221;

Engelbrecht is of the opinion that the appeal, if granted by Judge Masipa, will be heard by the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein, as it involves matters in law.

City lawyer Ferdinand Hartzenberg is also sceptical over whether the State will succeed on appeal.

&#8220;You have to look at the facts in this case. The facts led the judge to a culpable homicide conviction.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t think she erred in law in coming to this conclusion. There was a lot of character assassination in this case, which had nothing to do with the facts.&#8221;

He feels Pistorius received a just sentence. &#8220;There are many people convicted of culpable homicide, who do not spend a day in jail. Taking into account that Pistorius is a first offender, I don&#8217;t think his sentence is shockingly inappropriate.&#8221;

BBM

Hello FromGermany! I'm surprised to read this, as I thought Engelbrecht previously opined that OP was guilty of murder. Maybe, I'm misinterpreting the article, but here it is:

http://citizen.co.za/129328/reasonable-reaction/

I suppose Engelbrecht could conceivably be saying that he's changed his mind, now that he's heard the evidence; or that, given the findings of fact that were made by Masipa, CH is the correct verdict. In any event, it seems that the caselaw is all over the place.

 

[Sherbert]

I don't know about the 'It's Better Campaign' video but.....it seems that OP got the black eye at a party shortly after returning from the Olympics. He had found out S Taylor had been seeing Van de Burgh and got into an altercation with Shultz and co. about it. In Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman, Shultz is quoted re the meeting he and OP had with the Hawks. "Oscar couldn't look at me, he was shaking. He had a black eye and he had stitches in his head from the party. He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...lved in previous aggressive incidents&f=false

Scroll down to chapter 'A Lioness' Legacy' then to the 6th page.

Oh my goodness! Dancing with a black eye and a gun? Lol! What a complete and utter tool...

 

[foxbluff]

Thank you. Would I have to buy a deerstalker and a pipe?!

umm... you might want to confer with Mrs. Fossil before going there.

 

[Mr Fossil]

umm... you might want to confer with Mrs. Fossil before going there.

I won't tell you what she said when she heard there was to be an appeal ....

 

[Cherwell]

I don't know about the 'It's Better Campaign' video but.....it seems that OP got the black eye at a party shortly after returning from the Olympics. He had found out S Taylor had been seeing Van de Burgh and got into an altercation with Shultz and co. about it. In Behind the Door: The Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp Story
By Mandy Wiener, Barry Bateman, Shultz is quoted re the meeting he and OP had with the Hawks. "Oscar couldn't look at me, he was shaking. He had a black eye and he had stitches in his head from the party. He was so pissed he fell and cut his head. He was dancing with his gun."

Was this before or after he told Batchelor he'd break his legs, I wonder.

 

[jilly]

That was an article in the Wall Street Journal IIRC whereas this is an interview with the NPA spokesman Nathi Mncube, so hopefully more reliable.

Yes, it was the Wall Street Journal (World) section:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/sout...eal-pistorius-verdict-and-sentence-1414417054

Yesterday, I read the whole article. Today you have to sign up or log in.
You can see the first couple of lines faintly, however, in the first para.

 

[Cherwell]

I'm surprised to read this, as I thought Engelbrecht previously opined that OP was guilty of murder. Maybe, I'm misinterpreting the article, but here it is:

http://citizen.co.za/129328/reasonable-reaction/

I suppose Engelbrecht could conceivably be saying that he's changed his mind, now that he's heard the evidence; or that, given the findings of fact that were made by Masipa, CH is the correct verdict. In any event, it seems that the caselaw is all over the place.

But it's hard to see why he could have changed his mind, given that he stated:

&#8220;The law is quite clear. If you can escape the imminent danger without putting your life in danger you have to do it. If you kill a person it must be in such severe circumstances that there&#8217;s virtually no other way open to protect your life.&#8221;

I mean, that's where his defence falls down for me, even if one accepts that he thought there was a burglar. He went out of his way to confront danger, when he could have left the bedroom with Reeva, locking the door behind them.

 

[AW2B]

Yes, it was the Wall Street Journal (World) section:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/sout...eal-pistorius-verdict-and-sentence-1414417054

Yesterday, I read the whole article. Today you have to sign up or log in.
You can see the first couple of lines faintly, however, in the first para.

Same here..maybe non-subscribers are only allowed one time to access articles on their website.

 

[foxbluff]

I won't tell you what she said when she heard there was to be an appeal ....

That is too funny !! :floorlaugh: