Post sentencing discussion

[KarenUK]

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/10/26/june-steenkamp-says-reeva-wasn-t-having-sex-with-oscar

"I think he may have shot once and then he had to go on and kill her because she would have been able to tell the world what really happened, what he's really like.

"He said pulling the trigger was 'an accident'. What? Four times an accident?" June writes in her book. "He said Reeva did not scream, but she would definitely have screamed. I know my daughter and she was very vocal."

Both June and 71-year-old Barry said they believed their daughter was gradually being ground down by Pistorius's constant demands and moody temperament.

Reeva was unhappy when she arrived at Pistorius's house for the last time. CCTV footage, according to her mother, shows her looking miserable as she approaches the gated estate. Something was brewing. The couple were fighting.

The Steenkamps said they believed the testimony of a neighbour who heard two people arguing from 1.56am, which Judge Thokozile Masipa discounted in her verdict.

"There is no doubt in our minds that something went horribly wrong, something upset her so terribly that she hid behind a locked door with two mobile phones," June writes.

Other facts did not add up, said the Steenkamps. Reeva was shot wearing a sleeveless black top and grey tracksuit shorts, "clothes for a summer's day, not her night clothes".

She was facing the door when the first bullet struck her hip, "probably pleading".

Her mother told The Times she was also troubled by police photographs that showed Reeva's jeans strewn across the bedroom floor, because Reeva was a "neat freak". "She would never leave them on the floor. She was tidy to the extreme."

In the book, Reeva's mother dissects every text, tweet and e-mail in the brief relationship, looking for hidden meaning.

She concludes that it was volatile and unpredictable.

Reeva said Pistorius scared her, and that he picked on her "incessantly".

"Either of them could have received a Valentine's Day message from another admirer that might have sparked a row," says June.

June told Hello! magazine this week that Pistorius's jail term was "the best sentence we could have expected".
(This article has been updated.)

It's so sad that they can say they feel that she was shot in a DV case, but have to be happy with that short sentence because he could have just ended up with house arrest and a few hours community service - or am I reading too much into her comment?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/

Should an appeal go ahead, Pistorius will need his lawyers and it remains to be seen whether Roux will continue with the case.

A source close to the Pistorius family said his lawyers spent a considerable amount of time preparing the athlete for a prison sentence.

And a source close to the legal team said Pistorius received the sentence Roux expected, and that Roux told Pistorius the public would never forgive him if he did not serve some time behind bars.
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-
But Pistorius – who was estimated to earn about R20 million a year before the 2012 London Olympics – has no more money, so the bill has been sent to his uncle.

City Press understands there was tension between Roux and Arnold Pistorius, who tried to influence the direction of the case but was told to butt out. A source close to the legal team said his opinion was not welcome, given his refusal to settle outstanding fees.

However, the dispute over the bill may not end up in a fight.

 

[AW2B]

But that was days ago when she made that comment. June said she and Barry were going home as they left the court. I was wondering if the Steenkamps have just been informed by their advisors that an appeal is going to be made and perhaps they aren't coping with the news very well because they're emotionally drained and feel they can't face any more. Something is obviously happening and if things are going awry, that doesn't sound too good to me.

There's only so much anyone take. First the death of their daughter, then this ridiculously long trial and all the accompanying media attention. They wouldn't be able to get away from it even if they stayed at home. You couldn't turn on the TV or radio, buy a newspaper or even a magazine without it staring you in the face. They're getting on in age and Barry's health is poor. I feel desperately sorry for them. I imagine they just want to live out the rest of their lives in peace.

I too feel deeply sorry for her parents. However, Masipa's verdict is not only about Reeva and Pistorius..it is about domestic violence..it is sending the wrong message. It is also setting a dangerous precedent. I do hope her parents would give their support to the state to appeal this outrageous verdict..

 

[jay-jay]

I too feel deeply sorry for her parents. However, Masipa's verdict is not only about Reeva and Pistorius..it is about domestic violence..it is sending the wrong message. It is also setting a dangerous precedent. I do hope her parents would give their support to the state to appeal this outrageous verdict..

BBM .. I completely agree, and I understood that the ANC women were going to support an appeal/retrial (so hopefully that would take some of the strain off Reeva's parents and attend on their behalf <<-- I don't think anyone would blame them for not being there, they've suffered enough). But if June wants to set up a refuge in Reeva's name, for victims of domestic violence, then it follows that the correct justice needs to be served for the perpetrators of such a crime, otherwise it will never be addressed and the large numbers of women requiring such help will never decrease .. and surely, that is one of the things that Reeva most wanted was for something to be done to start reducing those numbers?

 

[soozieqtips]

Maybe Reeva hadn't yet slept with OP when she confided in her mother. I don't know when June last spoke to Reeva, but we know Reeva spent an additional two nights (prior to the killing) with OP, so I would imagine they were sleeping together at that point? Funny how OP didn't shoot her before that night, seeing as Reeva probably made the usual night-time noises, and OP would have been familiar with them.

 

[pandax81]

.. didn't someone upthread say it was calendar days? I still don't know which one is right!

Hi jay-jay, I didn't quite say that

It is 14 calendar days for the state to appeal the sentence (and for OP to appeal the verdict or sentence)

For the state to appeal the verdict though, there doesn't appear to be a time restriction that I can see (though if this is so, I guess it would be sensible to do it within 14 calendar days)

(My reference for calendar days? It is explicitly defined as such in the Criminal Procedure Act which specifies these rights of appeal. Most of these experts have proved unreliable in their firm declaration of basic facts, including Prof Grant, and have had to make big retractions, I have not been shy in expressing my disappointment with it to date and now check everything in black and white)

Maybe someone can ask David Dadic his reference for 14 court days for the state to make a request under s319?
I don't say he is wrong, I just can't find it anywhere, he must know where.

 

[jay-jay]

OK, that's what I meant .. 'calendar days' as opposed to 'working days' (which is what Jj's 'bed chart' shows) .. I didn't realise there was (or may be) a difference between appealing the sentence and appealing the verdict though, so thanks for that :thumb:

 

[Cherwell]

Barry Bateman on twitter today:

12.1.2013 19:03:43 UTC
Whatsapp Oscar to Reeva

"I felt so close to you last night, when we made love and sometimes I just feel venerable ...
................... I don't want a mediocre relationship, I feel like we have a beautiful connection .............."

Venerable? :floorlaugh:

Venerable, adj. - accorded a great deal of respect, especially because of age, wisdom, or character.

I think not.

 

[soozieqtips]

Venerable? :floorlaugh:

Venerable, adj. - accorded a great deal of respect, especially because of age, wisdom, or character.

I think not.

Venerable. He wishes!

 

[Cherwell]

I did a list once before but this has far more to it. Have I missed anything?

There's the party he gatecrashed about eight weeks after the murder, when he tried to get off with a Reeva look-alike.

 

[Cherwell]

I too feel deeply sorry for her parents. However, Masipa's verdict is not only about Reeva and Pistorius..it is about domestic violence..it is sending the wrong message. It is also setting a dangerous precedent. I do hope her parents would give their support to the state to appeal this outrageous verdict..

Absolutely. In a case like this, where the law seems to have been dangerously misapplied, it shouldn't be up to the family of the victim to decide.

 

[pandax81]

OK, that's what I meant .. 'calendar days' as opposed to 'working days' (which is what Jj's 'bed chart' shows) .. I didn't realise there was (or may be) a difference between appealing the sentence and appealing the verdict though, so thanks for that :thumb:

There is no universal definition in law. Each Act, and each specific Section of an act, can define it differently.

There is one section for the state to appeal the sentence: it says '14 days' and the Act defines a 'day' as a calendar day.

There is a (very!) different section for the state to 'appeal the verdict', where it doesn't mention any number of days.

In other sections, it says "X days except Sat, Sun and public holidays", or that section defines a 'court day' and says "X court days".

(Apologies if this is all superfluous jibber jabber, I read into your post a possible premise that there might be a universal definition. I try my best to research and post my findings for my own benefit and for the help of websleuthers, I hope at least some ppl find it useful and that it has proved to be reliable/diligent)

 

[Cherwell]

Maybe Reeva hadn't yet slept with OP when she confided in her mother. I don't know when June last spoke to Reeva, but we know Reeva spent an additional two nights (prior to the killing) with OP, so I would imagine they were sleeping together at that point? Funny how OP didn't shoot her before that night, seeing as Reeva probably made the usual night-time noises, and OP would have been familiar with them.

I suspect that she had by the time she sent that message on 26 January, because of a couple of references:

"I am the girl who let go with you even when I was scared out of my mind to" and "When I feel you think you have me so why try any more"

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Originally Posted by Judgejudi View Post
I did a list once before but this has far more to it. Have I missed anything?

There's the party he gatecrashed about eight weeks after the murder, when he tried to get off with a Reeva look-alike.

There is the accident with the dog, which he shot dead to spare his pain.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Originally Posted by ncl1968

Also he had damage to his false legs that looked to me he was hit with a cricket bat?

Yes, I thought the EXACT same thing! Would a multi-millionaire (an image-conscious, self-admitted perfectionist) be running around with ugly, gouged legs that look like they were used for target practice?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

&#8220;He is a little bit tired and tense but the chaplain went to talk to him,&#8221; said Monama today. &#8220;He is deurmekaar, as they say in Afrikaans. After he saw the chaplain our psychologist went to see him, just to try talk to him.&#8221;
Oscar Pistorius is &#8216;Deurmekaar&#8217; &#8211; Prison Boss
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-pistorius-deurmekaar-prison-boss/

OP brutally murdered an innocent, terrified, defenseless woman.
He&#8217;s a convicted killer.
He&#8217;s sitting in the &#8220;VIP&#8221; section of prison.
What is he &#8216;CONFUSED&#8217; about?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Oscar-judge cooing over first little one
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://huisgenoot.com/?s=oscar+pistorius

(original Afrikaans)
Oscar-regter koer eers oor pienkvoet
http://huisgenoot.com/page/5/?s=oscar+pistorius

Ah ... maybe this explains assessor Henzen-du Toit&#8217;s illness/absence for one week early in the trial?

 

[soozieqtips]

Ah ... maybe this explains assessor Henzen-du Toit&#8217;s illness/absence for one week early in the trial?

Wasn't it the guy who was off sick?

 

[KarenUK]

But that was days ago when she made that comment. June said she and Barry were going home as they left the court. I was wondering if the Steenkamps have just been informed by their advisors that an appeal is going to be made and perhaps they aren't coping with the news very well because they're emotionally drained and feel they can't face any more. Something is obviously happening and if things are going awry, that doesn't sound too good to me.

There's only so much anyone take. First the death of their daughter, then this ridiculously long trial and all the accompanying media attention. They wouldn't be able to get away from it even if they stayed at home. You couldn't turn on the TV or radio, buy a newspaper or even a magazine without it staring you in the face. They're getting on in age and Barry's health is poor. I feel desperately sorry for them. I imagine they just want to live out the rest of their lives in peace.

I too feel deeply sorry for her parents. However, Masipa's verdict is not only about Reeva and Pistorius..it is about domestic violence..it is sending the wrong message. It is also setting a dangerous precedent. I do hope her parents would give their support to the state to appeal this outrageous verdict..

Absolutely. In a case like this, where the law seems to have been dangerously misapplied, it shouldn't be up to the family of the victim to decide.

I'm relieved it's not their choice, its too much responsibility for a grieving family.

 

[foxbluff]

BIB IMO could be reasonably possibly true. Hypothetically, has Team OP hidden this fact to ensure his sporting career and their money making potential remain intact? Could Team OP be negligent for not having OP medically examined for anger/impulse changes post head injury?

It was clear to those around him that, in his daily life, he was getting more out of control with anger and his use a gun before he shot RS to death and 'blew her brains out' that night.

In OP's recovery from the boating accident, did Team OP influence and gain medical cooperation, to ensure that a diagnosis of brain injury remain hidden from the public so as not to impact OP's sporting career? Team OP PR machine ensured that OP was seen publicly as having made a 'miracle' recovery, again an 'outstanding' achiever, etc, to positively influence his public profile and ensure their income earning capacity.

However, it is well known in medical circles that brain injury can leave humans prone to anger/impulse problems and sleep difficulties. [Michael Hutchence, high public profile as Inxs front singer, is one example: his colleagues noticed he had problems with anger and impulse control after sustaining a head injury, but the public was not aware of this until after his death].

Has the politically influential SA Team OP PR machine overlooked in its quest to maintain OP's Olympic glory/fame/money for South Africa, the fact that the man, OP, was struggling with anger/impulse issues which threatened the the safety and well-being of other people?

The information about OP's anger/impulse issues has come into the public domain despite the substantial effort of Team OP PR machine to squash this information, maintain damage control, influence charges to be dropped, cases dismissed, etc. Has Team OP been negligent?

Do we hold the people around celebrities/sports stars, etc accountable?

All in my opinion only.

Fuskier, I'm not doing a BBM on this post, because I would have to bold every paragraph... it's that good... so well thought out, insightful and thought provoking. I read it five times and wish I could hire you to write my posts.