Post Your LISK Profile #2

[Aleph]

I'm eager to hear more when you're up to typing it.


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[Mountain_Kat]

I'm eager to hear more when you're up to typing it.


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There are commonalities to be found in almost all serial killers. I see no reason why LISK should be any different, so my psychological profile in based in part upon that. At the same time, serial killers are individuals just like every other human being, so we often have to look at what they do for clues about these unique traits. Therefore, some of my views on LISK are admittedly quess work, but I have tried to base that guess work on known patterns of other serial killers, and what I have observed of LISK as an individual. So....keep all that in mind as you read this.

Early Childhood

1. Dysfunction within the family unit. Failure to bond psychologically with mother...perhaps due to death, divorce, physical abandonment, substance abuse by the mother, or mother was emotionally/mentally unstable. Unhealthy bond with father. Father may have been overly critical, demeaning, demanding and emotionally unavailable...or he may have been physically unavailable, due to work/travel/divorce/ etc.

2. Traumatic Childhood Event. This is a highly personalized event, so there is no real way of knowing what the event might have been for LISK, but it is one of the most common markers we see in serial killers. The event itself may seem monumental to us, or it may seem somewhat trivial to us, but how it affects the child is what is truly relevant here. Dahmer's event was the stress of his parents fighting and eventual divorce, Bundy's event was learning his sister was actually his mother, Gacy had many traumatic events, chief among them was molestation by a family friend, Richard Ramirez's event was physical abuse at the hands of his father, and so on and so forth. Whatever LISK's event was, as with most serial killers, it lead to emotional withdrawl and isolation.

3. Possible head injury in childhood. Doesn't appear in every known serial killer, but is common enough within this group to consider that it MAY have been a factor in LISKs childhood.

4. Stunted social development. A child who doesn't fit in with his peers. Was probably teased, bullied, avoided, or came to avoid others within his age group.

5. Overwhelming feelings of being helpless or powerless. This is a powerful emotion for a child to deal with, and it triggers very unique and individual reactions. While I can't say for certain how LISK dealt with this emotion, my guess is that he began to exhibit control over anyone or anything he could control. He may have set fires, abused animals, represented himself as something other than what he was (if he was inwardly shy he may have acted the extrovert, if he was fearful he may have presented himself as fearless, etc. etc.).

6. Overwhelming feelings of rejection and abandonment. We see this in the histories of almost every serial killer we have studied, and it is almost ALWAYS the trigger point for their later immersion in fantasy.

Adolescence

1. Introduction to, and obsession with *advertiser censored*. This is not the case in all serial killers, but I do think it was the case with LISK.

2. Immersion in fantasy.
3. Substance abuse. Not a given, but I do think it's true of LISK.
4. Sexual confusion. By this, I don't necessarily mean confusion as to sexual orientation (although this is sometimes the case). What I am specifically referring to is how, in many serial killers, puberty and sexual development become entwined with peculiar obsessions. These become inseparable in the mind of the serial killer, and I don't think LISK is any different. My personal feelings about this, regarding LISK, is that control and mastery over women (at least the ones he kills), is part of his sexual makeup. He fantasized about strangling women. This was a fantasy that allowed him control. In this fantasy he can control his partner's fear, see their fear, end their fear or prolong their fear...he is in complete control.

Adulthood

1. Fantasy and *advertiser censored* no longer gives the sexual rush. I suspect it is at this point in his life where he begins to seek out prostitutes. And I do think he is (or was) a "hobbyist" who had a check list for every sexual experience he could think of. I think he burned through that list, and was then left with nowhere else to go in terms of achieving a sexual rush. This is where he first begins to fantasize about turning fantasy into reality. I would also bet that the first few times he actually made the leap to murder, he chickened out.

2. Leading two separate lives. I think LISK has become very adroit at this, and I would bet that in his day to day life, he is the exact opposite of the monster his victims encounter. I suspect he is soft spoken, meek, well thought of in his community, active in his community, a doting father, a kind and gentle husband, etc. etc.

3. Lack of empathy/ inappropriate responses. I think LISK tries very hard to be seen as normal. I think he knows what he is supposed to say, or do, in terms of empathizing with others, but this is a mask and his words/actions give his true feelings away if your are truly looking for it. I can't help but think of CPH's response upon hearing of the murders of the first 4 women. "What a mean thing to do." This is exactly the kind of inappropriate response I would expect from LISK. Not saying CPH is LISK, mind you, just that his response is a perfect example of how I think LISK would respond. He knows he should be feeling something, so attempts to play the role, only is comes off as not quite right.

4. Taunting. This is LISKS way of extending his control beyond just his victims. It makes him feel powerful, probably when his sense of power and control begins to wane and ebb. I think the calls were triggered by some event or situation in his real life where he felt powerless or emasculated. I also think he drunk dials.

5. Longs to be the center of attention. Not true of every serial killer, but I do think it's a marker for LISK. He needs to be seen as important, exceptional, brilliant, superior to others...and I think he needs to feel that because, inwardly, he feels just the opposite. I think that is why he took such care with the victims dumpsite. For him, it was a trophy case that highlighted and re-inforced how "exceptional" he truly is. He chose burlap because it blended into the terrain and enabled HIM to pick out the bodies where they lay, but blended so well it went un-noticed by others. I think he kept an eye on the dumpsite...rode by it, maybe fished or sunned himself nearby, feeling powerfully omnipotent because he knew something no one else knew.

(That's enough for one sitting. )

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just want to add...if it that profile seems like it is based on an individual we all know, it isn't. I didn't consider ANY known person on interest while working on it. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Puggle]

Just want to add...if it that profile seems like it is based on an individual we all know, it isn't. I didn't consider ANY known person on interest while working on it. Just wanted to make that clear.

Is there any known person of interest specifically nominated in the media?

ETA: I really like what you have come up with ...... What are your thoughts on Triggers....seems a lot of these murders have been committed around holiday periods...

Personally I have a feeling what triggers this guy to murder is an upcoming family get together type of situation centred around the holiday period.

He has such feelings of inadequacy that he has failed to meet his expected rung in life - the comparison to his siblings achievement's burns him.... his rages prior to these family occasions to vent his feelings ??

 

[Aleph]

MountainKat, I love what you wrote. It painted a clear and precise picture.

It sounds like you see LISK as higher-functioning. Like if LISK is someone like CPH (and I know you weren't saying that you think he is CPH), he managed to get an advanced degree, function in a stressful and demanding profession, own a home, stay married, put kids through college. That's as high-functioning as it gets. I see LISK as closer to a Joe B. type. Able to hold onto a white collar job most of the time, but largely supported by family money and connections. Not stable enough for much of a home and family life. I don't have anything to base these suppositions on; it's just a feeling I always had. What's your take on it? I'm interested to hear anyone else's feedback as well.


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[Mountain_Kat]

MountainKat, I love what you wrote. It painted a clear and precise picture.

It sounds like you see LISK as higher-functioning. Like if LISK is someone like CPH (and I know you weren't saying that you think he is CPH), he managed to get an advanced degree, function in a stressful and demanding profession, own a home, stay married, put kids through college. That's as high-functioning as it gets. I see LISK as closer to a Joe B. type. Able to hold onto a white collar job most of the time, but largely supported by family money and connections. Not stable enough for much of a home and family life. I don't have anything to base these suppositions on; it's just a feeling I always had. What's your take on it? I'm interested to hear anyone else's feedback as well.


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I do see him as high functioning, Aleph. But I also think it's possible that his complete immersion in fantasy, and acting out those fantasies, might have, eventually, had a detrimental effect. For example, if he was a successful CEO of a large company at one point, I could see him start coming in late, missing important meetings, making costly mistakes, etc. etc. I think if he was financially secure, he might well have opted for an early retirement. If he had to continue to work to support his family, I could see him changing jobs, trading one with high expectations and massive demands on his time, for one with lower expectations with less demands on his time.

I have a hard time seeing him as a Joe B type...mainly because LISK has all the hallmarks of an organized serial killer, and a Joe B. type doesn't fit that profile. But, as we all know, profiling is an imperfect science, so...who knows?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Is there any known person of interest specifically nominated in the media?

ETA: I really like what you have come up with ...... What are your thoughts on Triggers....seems a lot of these murders have been committed around holiday periods...

Personally I have a feeling what triggers this guy to murder is an upcoming family get together type of situation centred around the holiday period.

He has such feelings of inadequacy that he has failed to meet his expected rung in life - the comparison to his siblings achievement's burns him.... his rages prior to these family occasions to vent his feelings ??

I don't think he has triggers, not in terms of his killing. And I don't think he kills due to sudden rage. In my mind, he's a hunter. Part of what motivates him is the hunt. He takes his time, chooses his prey carefully, and knows exactly how and when and where the murder will take place, long before it ever happens. If there is any significance at all to the dates of the murders, imo, it is only because that is when it is most ideal for him.

JMO

ETA: I do think your theory is intriguing, though.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Just stopping by for a moment but I always found the two artists who did the artistic painting at one of the beaches (Gilgo?) to be very interesting. They were talked about a good while back. They also had a space in NY, IIRC. They are probably mid-thirties now. I'm probably so wrong, but they did seem rather creepy and their paintings were super creepy. Maybe there are two of them working together.

There are just so many from every walk of life who seem as if they could be Lisk.

MOO

 

[marble]

Just stopping by for a moment but I always found the two artists who did the artistic painting at one of the beaches (Gilgo?) to be very interesting. They were talked about a good while back. They also had a space in NY, IIRC. They are probably mid-thirties now. I'm probably so wrong, but they did seem rather creepy and their paintings were super creepy. Maybe there are two of them working together.

There are just so many from every walk of life who seem as if they could be Lisk.

MOO

I searched and searched and can't find a reference to the artists. Were they plein air painters (set up with easels painting the landscape) or muralists or something else? That would help me research this more.

btw- if the artists weren't painters and you are thinking of this work: http://open-source-gallery.org/nick-kline/ I can vouch for the artist (I know him, but weirdly enough had no idea he did this series until I started googling to see what you might be referring to!)

 

[Puggle]

I don't think he has triggers, not in terms of his killing. And I don't think he kills due to sudden rage. In my mind, he's a hunter. Part of what motivates him is the hunt. He takes his time, chooses his prey carefully, and knows exactly how and when and where the murder will take place, long before it ever happens. If there is any significance at all to the dates of the murders, imo, it is only because that is when it is most ideal for him.JMO

ETA: I do think your theory is intriguing, though.

So no trigger??.....then wouldn't you expect multiple murders at random dates??? ...

Each abduction/missing post for the GB4 is centred around a specific holiday time frame???



My theory is this is a time....or pre time of great upheaval mentally...where there is some challenge, some stressor..

 

[PennyPie7]

Just stopping by for a moment but I always found the two artists who did the artistic painting at one of the beaches (Gilgo?) to be very interesting. They were talked about a good while back. They also had a space in NY, IIRC. They are probably mid-thirties now. I'm probably so wrong, but they did seem rather creepy and their paintings were super creepy. Maybe there are two of them working together.

There are just so many from every walk of life who seem as if they could be Lisk.

MOO

Could you please post any references/links with any information about this? I've never heard anything about this and cannot seem to dig anything up. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The name of the artist who painted the original Gilgo tunnel mural was named Peter Bragino. It's since been painted over.

Tread lightly, though. TOS.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

So no trigger??.....then wouldn't you expect multiple murders at random dates??? ...

Each abduction/missing post for the GB4 is centred around a specific holiday time frame???



My theory is this is a time....or pre time of great upheaval mentally...where there is some challenge, some stressor..

Don't misunderstand me, Puggle, I do think there is a significance to the dates. I just tend to think the reason for that is because these particular days are somehow more convenient for him to do what he does. Maybe his family was away during holidays, or maybe he his wife worked Thursdays and spent time with her family on Sundays, or maybe he got paid on Thursdays, who knows? I just don't personally believe that anything triggers him to kill. I think he's methodical and plans everything out well in advance.

JMO

 

[marble]

The name of the artist who painted the original Gilgo tunnel mural was named P B. It's since been painted over.

Tread lightly, though. TOS.

Ok. thanks.
*there is NOTHING sinister about that mural project* I watched the whole video (and now want that 20 minutes of my life back) and it's just a (sanctioned and legal!) collaborative graffiti mural project with a whole bunch of local artists involved. The final imagery is the furthest thing from being in any way creepy, especially given most graffiti muralists' imagery. It's downright cheerful and unoffensive. TBH it's beyond me why this guy/project would even ping anyone's radar in the first place.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Ok. thanks.
*there is NOTHING sinister about that mural project* I watched the whole video (and now want that 20 minutes of my life back) and it's just a (sanctioned and legal!) collaborative graffiti mural project with a whole bunch of local artists involved. The final imagery is the furthest thing from being in any way creepy, especially given most graffiti muralists' imagery. It's downright cheerful and unoffensive. TBH it's beyond me why this guy/project would even ping anyone's radar in the first place.

You're probably looking at the new mural, not the one that was painted over. The original mural showed 10 human skulls underwater, and what appeared to be the figures of ghostly apparitions floating in the water. It was creepy. Don't think it had any real significance to anything at all...but it really was odd.

 

[LaLaw2000]

I searched and searched and can't find a reference to the artists. Were they plein air painters (set up with easels painting the landscape) or muralists or something else? That would help me research this more.

btw- if the artists weren't painters and you are thinking of this work: http://open-source-gallery.org/nick-kline/ I can vouch for the artist (I know him, but weirdly enough had no idea he did this series until I started googling to see what you might be referring to!)

I don't think it was this guy. I remember some of us studied some of the paintings though. They had a loft in NY and did creepy, bloody paintings also. I probably shouldn't have said anything. It's just I always found them creepy and weird!

I just thought someone might remember them!

MOO

 

[LaLaw2000]

The name of the artist who painted the original Gilgo tunnel mural was named Peter Bragino. It's since been painted over.

Tread lightly, though. TOS.

Thanks, Mountain_Kat. I remember now that this is the name of the artist. We did give it and his friend a good going over a long time ago. I did not realize it was not good to mention it again and had not realized should not be discussed.

*Bowing out now!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Thanks, Mountain_Kat. I remember now that this is the name of the artist. We did give it and his friend a good going over a long time ago. I did not realize it was not good to mention it again and had not realized should not be discussed.

*Bowing out now!

It okay to discuss, we just can't really sleuth him on forum, since he's not a person of interest.

 

[mcme]

You're probably looking at the new mural, not the one that was painted over. The original mural showed 10 human skulls underwater, and what appeared to be the figures of ghostly apparitions floating in the water. It was creepy. Don't think it had any real significance to anything at all...but it really was odd.

The drawing/panel you're describing is still part of the collection of panels done in the underpass at Gilgo Beach. It has not been painted over.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The drawing/panel you're describing is still part of the collection of panels done in the underpass at Gilgo Beach. It has not been painted over.

Thanks. I'm not sure why I assumed that they had been painted over. Probably something I misread.