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[AstroKitty]

I will have to look it up I can't remember right off hand what hotel it was. I've always wondered if he called and set something up and never showed. This way being able to find out what hotel and everything then sat and waited for his moment to strike. I never believe these girls were stupid enough to leave their phone behind.

That's a BIG possibility. Normally there's a 3 call system (for in call: which is when the customer comes to the providers location). First they call to set up the appointment. They call back 1 hour prior to confirm and get a nearby address. Once they get close they call again (normally from the parking lot so the provider can see them) and then they get the room #. What I'm wondering is if maybe he went through all 3 steps but then drove off?

a NC/NS would explain so much.

OR doing all 3 steps, (or however many they require) and showing up - claim to be LE - cuff and place in the back of the car. I really think the car is rigged with the locks. I only say this because of those that do work the streets. But what you brought up is a huge huge possibility.

There's been many accounts of men that do this, only to stalk the providers till they vacate their incall location out of fear. Sometimes the clients will sit and wait for other clients to appear and chase them off OR call LE themselves. There are some real nut jobs out there.

I bet he called so many women during his sprees and they don't realize they dodged the bullet (so to speak, no pun intended). He had to have been at least a lil off via the phone to not have more victims.

I'm intrigued about the woman who ran and hid from her driver. I'd love to hear details about this or a link to his detailed account.

 

[Tracey1409]

Actually, that's just set my mind going.... a friend of mines brother got mixed up in drugs and she used to say how devious it had made him e.g. saying he was going here/doing this when he was actually going to score drugs. Made me think... I know MW said she was going to the gas station and we definitely don't know she was on drugs ... but what if she thought she was going to score too?

 

[Tracey1409]

Schaller said it was a date for sex. He was listening to her on the phone with him from the next room when they agreed on a price. I believe that he said she was "hamming" him up. Looking back on it now it makes you wonder who was really hamming who up, huh?


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Schaller heard her talking prices from the next room ... Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, "hamming up" is the word he used. Hmmm makes you think doesn't it?

 

[Gerontion]

I often wonder if ALC believed she was seeing this caller for drugs and not sex. The roommate said she acted totally differently when going out on this call. If she thought she was going to just make a deal for some drugs she wouldn't necessarily have acted the way she did when she went out for a 'date'. JMO.

Every bit of anything we know about ALC's actions that day are from the reports by her roomate and fellow heroin addict, DS. By the way, her boyfriend who was also living with them had recently returned to rehab for his own heroin addiction, and one might surmise that he wasn't living there at that time. Remember, ALC and that boyfriend had met in rehab. And it was he and DS who would stay on guard in the next room when ALC took an in-call. DS stated she would plunk down $7,000/wk on the kitchen table. KO might be able to shed light on how/where/who they scored. I just don't see her walking out the door and not telling DS she was off to score, if that was the case. But I never entertained the thought before.

 

[genericwhitemale]

Schaller heard her talking prices from the next room ... Do you see what I'm saying? Yes, "hamming up" is the word he used. Hmmm makes you think doesn't it?

I guess, but how would he have known she was into drugs? Unless they had already hung out before?


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[AstroKitty]

Astrokitty, those are very, very good questions that you ask about the first girl (MW). I can't remember them being brought up here before! As for the second girl (ALC), yes she was a heroin addict, but not a street addict. She only did incalls. It was extremely unusual for her to do an outcall. However, this time she left the house she shared with her roomate and headed off on foot to meet the person a block away. Her roomate (according to him) tried to get her to take the phone, but she wouldn't, telling her roomate, "that's not what he wants". She left in jeans and a hoodie. The roomate states that she had been on the phone with "the guy" a lot that day.

Anyway, keep your eyes and ears peeled for some "ugly mug" who requests that a girl leave her cell behind. If that seems so unusual to you, think of it as a definate red flag.

This same girl (ALC), as the story goes, and if my memory serves me right, had onetime been requested to go to the same Motel as the "first" girl (MW). But she didn't go. Makes one think that the guy was persistent in pursuing her in particular.

Oh man. I can totally picture this guy at this point. The type that persistently phones all day acting sooooo important.

Maybe he:
Calls 8 hours prior to his scheduled appointment and this is sort of his "hunting" or way to build up his anticipation..
Brings up that he works for mafia/gov and can't have her bringing her cell phone because of GPS tracking. But he makes her feel safe, he offers more money and says he'll even arrange a ride for her. He gives references even though she didn't ask. He calls back every hour until 10pm. Each time asking if things are still good, stating he forgot to bring various things up and is calling to include them.

I can only see him saying not to bring a cell due to GPS because he's some sort of official OR not to bring her cell phone because he's famous and doesn't want photos taken - saying the last girl did it and he got caught. Maybe he uses someone elses identity that's in the news that was recently busted for patronizing working girls and was caught because of a cell camera. That would explain why he can offer that much money and be believable. That can explain why the girls are so trusting (starstruck) and rather secretive.

There was a guy in Chicago who pretended to be the Asian guitar player in Smashing Pumpkins. He was a vice cop who played dirty (it's well documented) and he's been at it for over 15 years. He uses his entire identity down to fake references (which are female officers with profiles on escort websites and fake reviews). By being "famous" he makes the girls feel rather comfortable, they don't tell ANYONE where they are going and this protects his true identity. He also offers twice the amount to gain their trust and ensure they show up. Why he can still get away with this is beyond me. Everyone in Chicago is aware of it - but the new agencies and girls that don't screen will always fall for it.

Just random ideas I'm tossing out.

 

[AstroKitty]

Every bit of anything we know about ALC's actions that day are from the reports by her roomate and fellow heroin addict, DS. By the way, her boyfriend who was also living with them had recently returned to rehab for his own heroin addiction, and one might surmise that he wasn't living there at that time. Remember, ALC and that boyfriend had met in rehab. And it was he and DS who would stay on guard in the next room when ALC took an in-call. DS stated she would plunk down $7,000/wk on the kitchen table. KO might be able to shed light on how/where/who they scored. I just don't see her walking out the door and not telling DS she was off to score, if that was the case. But I never entertained the thought before.

addicts who share together score together. And it's highly unlikely she would go to a new source if her usual one wasn't "dry". Plus no one just randomly calls up and offers heroin (coke maybe..clients do offer blow and pot aka skiing and trees). But heroin? That's highly unlikely unless they have a slobbering, nodding out fetish. Genitals don't ..Um..operate or stand at attention while on smack. There is no sex drive. So I totally agree with you on that it's very very unlikely he posed as a drug dealer or even a source.

Plus heroin is a drug that's a beast. Her bf or roommate (whomever) would know about it and anticipate her arriving back with the bundle of dope. There's just no no no logical way this was about drugs. None. She had a dealer (obviously) and a new random client offering up smack over the phone would set off an alarm with even the most lax working girl.

 

[genericwhitemale]

There was a guy in Chicago who pretended to be the Asian guitar player in Smashing Pumpkins.

He pretended to be James Iha? lol


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[genericwhitemale]

heroin is a drug that's a beast. Her bf or roommate (whomever) would know about it and anticipate her arriving back with the bundle of dope.

Dave Schaller was/is a heroin addict, also.


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[AstroKitty]

He pretended to be James Iha? lol


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YES! Sorry I couldn't think of his name. Yes he pretends to be him over the phone.

 

[Tracey1409]

I guess, but how would he have known she was into drugs? Unless they had already hung out before?


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JMO but I think maybe these girls have hung out with him before ... that's how he gains their confidence

 

[genericwhitemale]

YES! Sorry I couldn't think of his name. Yes he pretends to be him over the phone.

That's really weird, yet funny at the same time lol


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[genericwhitemale]

JMO but I think maybe these girls have hung out with him before ... that's how he gains their confidence

I've said that myself before. We're on the same page.


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[Tracey1409]

Oh man. I can totally picture this guy at this point. The type that persistently phones all day acting sooooo important.

Maybe he:
Calls 8 hours prior to his scheduled appointment and this is sort of his "hunting" or way to build up his anticipation..
Brings up that he works for mafia/gov and can't have her bringing her cell phone because of GPS tracking. But he makes her feel safe, he offers more money and says he'll even arrange a ride for her. He gives references even though she didn't ask. He calls back every hour until 10pm. Each time asking if things are still good, stating he forgot to bring various things up and is calling to include them.

I can only see him saying not to bring a cell due to GPS because he's some sort of official OR not to bring her cell phone because he's famous and doesn't want photos taken - saying the last girl did it and he got caught. Maybe he uses someone elses identity that's in the news that was recently busted for patronizing working girls and was caught because of a cell camera. That would explain why he can offer that much money and be believable. That can explain why the girls are so trusting (starstruck) and rather secretive.

There was a guy in Chicago who pretended to be the Asian guitar player in Smashing Pumpkins. He was a vice cop who played dirty (it's well documented) and he's been at it for over 15 years. He uses his entire identity down to fake references (which are female officers with profiles on escort websites and fake reviews). By being "famous" he makes the girls feel rather comfortable, they don't tell ANYONE where they are going and this protects his true identity. He also offers twice the amount to gain their trust and ensure they show up. Why he can still get away with this is beyond me. Everyone in Chicago is aware of it - but the new agencies and girls that don't screen will always fall for it.

Just random ideas I'm tossing out.

I'm just sitting here reading this nodding and smiling. I've always thought he is telling these girls something to impress them be it huge money/drugs/celebrity sex ... whatever floats there boat. These are girls with no agencies. At least one of them was relatively new to the game.

 

[AstroKitty]

It's very possible he's a regular but my issue with that is - girls normally say "Oh my regular called..". I don't know why that's standard but it is. People talk about their regulars. I'm not throwing a wrench in the possibility though, because he could always say he had seen them prior *if questioned by the police* and that's why their DNA is in his house/car.

My only hang up with it is him spending $ on them. I just can't picture a killer doing that.

 

[AstroKitty]

I'm just sitting here reading this nodding and smiling. I've always thought he is telling these girls something to impress them be it huge money/drugs/celebrity sex ... whatever floats there boat. These are girls with no agencies. At least one of them was relatively new to the game.

Was there any celeb (sports or otherwise) that was busted around then who might live in LI? Often bad clients will pretend to be sports players because lets face it - how many women are memorizing various players in sports? I"m just trying to think of various angles he could have used that would warrant them not bringing their phones and knowing exactly where to go - where they wouldn't get lost. I'm still siding with him picking the girls up very close to their homes if they didn't bring their cells.

 

[Tracey1409]

addicts who share together score together. And it's highly unlikely she would go to a new source if her usual one wasn't "dry". Plus no one just randomly calls up and offers heroin (coke maybe..clients do offer blow and pot aka skiing and trees). But heroin? That's highly unlikely unless they have a slobbering, nodding out fetish. Genitals don't ..Um..operate or stand at attention while on smack. There is no sex drive. So I totally agree with you on that it's very very unlikely he posed as a drug dealer or even a source.

Plus heroin is a drug that's a beast. Her bf or roommate (whomever) would know about it and anticipate her arriving back with the bundle of dope. There's just no no no logical way this was about drugs. None. She had a dealer (obviously) and a new random client offering up smack over the phone would set off an alarm with even the most lax working girl.

Thanks for the insights Kitty. Drugs are one thing I proudly admit to being naieve about. I only really know snippets from here and there

 

[giagreen]

Actually, that's just set my mind going.... a friend of mines brother got mixed up in drugs and she used to say how devious it had made him e.g. saying he was going here/doing this when he was actually going to score drugs. Made me think... I know MW said she was going to the gas station and we definitely don't know she was on drugs ... but what if she thought she was going to score too?

Now you got me thinking. And it would be a good reason why he didn't want her to bring a phone and she agreed.

 

[Tracey1409]

Was there any celeb (sports or otherwise) that was busted around then who might live in LI? Often bad clients will pretend to be sports players because lets face it - how many women are memorizing various players in sports? I"m just trying to think of various angles he could have used that would warrant them not bringing their phones and knowing exactly where to go - where they wouldn't get lost. I'm still siding with him picking the girls up very close to their homes if they didn't bring their cells.

ALC was picked up close to home after that last call.

 

[Gerontion]

addicts who share together score together. And it's highly unlikely she would go to a new source if her usual one wasn't "dry". Plus no one just randomly calls up and offers heroin (coke maybe..clients do offer blow and pot aka skiing and trees). But heroin? That's highly unlikely unless they have a slobbering, nodding out fetish. Genitals don't ..Um..operate or stand at attention while on smack. There is no sex drive. So I totally agree with you on that it's very very unlikely he posed as a drug dealer or even a source.

Plus heroin is a drug that's a beast. Her bf or roommate (whomever) would know about it and anticipate her arriving back with the bundle of dope. There's just no no no logical way this was about drugs. None. She had a dealer (obviously) and a new random client offering up smack over the phone would set off an alarm with even the most lax working girl.

Right. I think we can rule out that big bad john used drugs to entice ALC. In fact, she had up until recently been supporting three with the habit. Herself, her boyfriend and DS. The boyfriend had just returned to rehab so now the $7k/wk was shared by only two. They weren't living fix to fix, IMHO. Then too, I have often wondered how the boyfriends recently having gone back in to rehab affected the dynamic in that house between DS and ALC and the business operation. To reiterate, it was most unusual for ALC to do an outcall.