Post your theory-****NO DISCUSSION****

[scmom]

Working theory-I am wondering about the height of the bunk beds.

I don't know but I have been thinking about Lisa falling from the top bunk myself.
Here's a link for bunk beds; looks like the top bunk would be about 50" for a low-loft bed, and up to about 72" for a regular top bunk.
http://www.bunkbeds-hq.com/buyers-guide/basics/

I could see why DB would not want to let everyone know she wasn't watching Lisa even if she weren't drinking.

 

[AnalyzeThis]

I think this happened, or was planned to happen, prior to JI leaving for work. Could have been premeditated (I'm leaning this way) or an accident that happened before he left.

If it was an accident, or only one of them was directly involved, I'd think the other one would have come clean by now, or would soon. That is, unless one of them has something big to hold over the other.

I still think this likely happened prior to JI leaving for work that night, and am still leaning toward premeditated. I don't buy the blackout theory. I can see possible motives of money (babies cost a lot), Lisa not being JI's, or frustration with the "inconvenience" of kids.

I've also considered whether DB may have been cheating on JI, and there was a confrontation during which Lisa was hurt. But my gut says that it was planned, along with the wine-buying trip, JI working late, etc.

I rule out a stranger abduction based on too many conflicting statements, and statements such as "my kids would know nothing" and "it was a normal night" (or whatever that quote was). If both JI and DB weren't involved, the other parent should get smart in a hurry and start cooperating with the investigation.

I do think, though, that LE could blow this and all theories out of the water with information they have and haven't released. We are just missing too many key pieces of basic information, like whether the neighbor saw the baby, exactly when JI was on work video, where the cell phones pinged, etc.

 

[UMfanforever]

I still think this likely happened prior to JI leaving for work that night, and am still leaning toward premeditated. I don't buy the blackout theory. I can see possible motives of money (babies cost a lot), Lisa not being JI's, or frustration with the "inconvenience" of kids.

I've also considered whether DB may have been cheating on JI, and there was a confrontation during which Lisa was hurt. But my gut says that it was planned, along with the wine-buying trip, JI working late, etc.

I rule out a stranger abduction based on too many conflicting statements, and statements such as "my kids would know nothing" and "it was a normal night" (or whatever that quote was). If both JI and DB weren't involved, the other parent should get smart in a hurry and start cooperating with the investigation.

I do think, though, that LE could blow this and all theories out of the water with information they have and haven't released. We are just missing too many key pieces of basic information, like whether the neighbor saw the baby, exactly when JI was on work video, where the cell phones pinged, etc.

Agree on all points, my theory as well. Maybe her brother had the baby. MOO

 

[justus4all]

I am wondering why the brother went into the store with her while she bought the wine and babyfood...

The video shows him standing and watching her...Why watch her?..Notice he is absolutely still, not moving...not helping her......I find that odd as most young men have no interest in "watching" shopping going on...They wander the aisles, and are disinterested...in wine and babyfood.....Just odd to me...

I am wondering if he is helping her set up an alibi...that Lisa WAS dead at that time..(getting her more baby food)...and the wine...that she drank up..and became drunk..and he helped stash the body...as he was with her THAT day...and he had a vehicle.

Also wondering if the LE dusted the light switches for prints of a stranger in the house..I assume they did...and found none...only the family..thus...the interest of the family only in this case..

We DO know...whatever the time line was...there was a "death smell" of someone deceased in their bedroom...

Not sure if Lisa'a father is involved...IMO and my 2 cents..

 

[Mountain_Kat]

My theory hasn't changed, but I am now wondering what, if any, relationship existed between the Irwin's and the neighbor who lived across the street.

 

[Shutterfly]

See that pooh bear? I have that bear, identically the same bear. It's an anniversary edition from 2007 I think (without going to look). Believe it or not I use it for a pillow. I do this because I took it away from my son five years ago. That bear almost got my son hurt...or worse.

If it was common for this bear to be left in Lisa's crib while she was in it, I'd be worried. This bear is BIG, and my boy jumped himself right over the railing using this bear as a step. I got lucky. I was standing there and I caught him. Had I not, he would have come down head first on the hardwood floor. The bear in this photo is WELL worn. Initially it was formed to sit up and display the anniversary stamp on the upturned, rear paw. This one is limp...just like mine.

People tend to put things in their usual place...and this is the first time I saw this bear in the crib. I can't imagine I would have missed that. I don't see random people coming in, under the circumstances, throwing things found lying about, into Lisa's bed. See the mobile mounted to the crib on the left? Pooh again. I'm a little suspicious of this bear and I'd definitely list him as a POI (pooh of interest).

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

I've been lurking around these threads for some time so forgive me if this has been theorized before. The lights on and unlocked door, makes me think that Mom passed out or possibly had someone over - maybe a guy - and he got up to leave and without waking her, the door remained unlocked. I can easily see this happening. From here, I can't say if it's this person or someone else that was watching that came back in to the house. The questions I have are WHO exactly was at that house that night? Was it really just a neighbor or did someone else come over and Mom doesn't want to talk about it because of JI finding out.

The video is also too coincidental, although I'm not sold on the person in the video being the same person, but the witnesses who spotted someone with a baby seems very coincidental.

The person that intrigues me the most is the brother. He's laying awfully low and who does he know that could have come in to kidnap a baby for money - ransom or otherwise - who knew the father wasn't home. Could the brother have given someone a key and this person didn't want to make noise with the key, so he just left the house unlocked.

Bottom line is, I don't think we're hearing fully the story from that night, although I don't think the mom harmed the baby, I do think she might have a loose connection to who took the baby, through the brother or a friend or a lover.

I'm not sold on the cadaver dogs yet. I think the cops are trying to get the parents to talk.

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Let's put it this way, I think the key is finding out WHO knew the father was working the overnight shift that night. Who told who and who all knew this fact. This is a crime of opportunity and someone knew that opportunity was there.

 

[Murphismo]

Here are my thoughts:

1 - if the wine buying/baby needs trip was planned to make it look like baby Lisa was alive, why try and hide the trip from the cops? Remember she neglected to tell them.
2. No one, I mean no one, is going to risk carrying around a kidnapped live baby, or dead baby for that matter in the middle of the night dressed in nothing but a diaper. That's just asking for trouble...... BUT..... if all these bystanders saw it - WHY DIDN'T ANYONE CALL THE POLICE???? How much more suspicious can something get - really people!! A man in a white t-shirt carrying around a half naked baby in the middle of the night near an interstate and a gas station??????

 

[LaLaw2000]

I have several theories and none of them are good.

1. Deborah kills Baby Lisa in a drinking rage and gets someone close to her to help with disposal. This is one that would not surprise me at all.

2. The boys had Baby Lisa in their room while watching the movie and one puts her up on the top bunk where she falls off, or gets hurt during rough play and her neck is broken.

3. Deborah sold Baby Lisa because she had already checked into a divorce and found that her legal husband was presumed to be Baby Lisa's father under the law. Maybe she is not certain JI is Baby Lisa's real father. IIRC, Deborah's son's father had not seen them in a couple of years. Baby Lisa is 11 months + 9 months pregnancy. That is 20 months which is close to the couple of years. The family members I have seen in MSM from both sides do not appear to be blonde w/blue eyes. Maybe Baby Lisa had to disappear before the divorce and before the ex came back from Iraq.
***I know none of that is likely though.

4. Deborah cooked a scheme up for profit and made Baby Lisa disappear. Now she cannot seem to find a way for her to reappear due to too much scrutiny.

5. Deborah gave Baby Lisa some of the boys cold meds and OD'd her.

The one thing I honestly do not believe is that an intruder took Baby Lisa. Deborah has told too many versions of her story for me to believe her about anything. She said herself that she failed the polygraph on the question of whether or not she knew where Baby Lisa is. I believe she does know. Besides, look at everything that fell into place that night in favor pf any intruder. That did not happen, IMO.

This is all pure speculation and my own thoughts. BUT I believe with everything in me that Deborah definately knows where Baby Lisa is and knows exactly what happened to her. BTW, I am guessing that DB has quite an internet footprint.

MOO big time!

 

[madge]

I think the death was probably accidental of some fashion, she covered it up because she was drunk and perhaps had someone in the house who should not be there. I think the body went in the river where it will never be found.

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

I really have no idea if it was abduction or if something happened by the parents hands..
but I do have a theory about the phones if it was abduction..

Say the mom had left the lights on because
1 she was drunk
2 she was not used to be alone at nite.
and someone came in mom was drunk enuff that the noise didnt wake her..
the person saw the baby and took her.. (no idea why)
but then saw the phones and thought.. hmm.. if i take these it will make it harder for
them to call the police if they wake up.. making my get away time longer..

I donno..
its all so nutty..

 

[siestalola]

Here's my current theory.

The disappearance of Baby Lisa was not premeditated by one or both parents. I believe DB is covering it up but JI is not.

At some point during the evening DB either drowned her by accident, over-medicated her by accident, she fell off the bed by accident, some accident took her life and DB panicked and chose not to call LE but to cover it up as she felt guilty for being irresponsible for her neglect of Baby Lisa due to her wine drinking with the neighbor. I don't think DB intentionally harmed Baby Lisa but I think she panicked and staged the house to look like a kidnapping had taken place.

Moo

 

[JodieSoda]

You all nicely outlined why the parents look VERY guilty.


Several crazy possibilities:

1. Husband finds out the child is not his and makes threats/demands. They both eliminate the child to maintain a relationship and for the mother to keep a roof over her and her childrens heads.

2. Husband walks in on her with another man. The child becomes collateral damage.

3. Accident occurs when in a drunken stupor.

4. They need money and the mother may have benefits under her military husband when a child dies?

5. Staged grocery run, kidnapping, etc. with brother involved to gain publicity and money from interviews and whatever else etc. Apparently there is a text message from the brother at 2:30 am saying "im ready when you are" or something to that effect.(or maybe the brother helped hide the body in another scenario).
They seem to speak to the media more than the police imo.

I wonder what came of the interview they probably had with the current husband stationed in IRAQ!

 

[TheDuchess]

Strangest theory ever: someone took BBy Lisa out of her crib or was playing with her and forgot and DB didn't know as she was out front. Kids in and out and no one noticed the baby had crawled out of the house and got lost so
Webers or fell into something?

 

[redfish]

I would like to come up with a theory that includes a live baby Lisa. I am having trouble with a believable abduction. But in the beginning I wondered whether one or the other of the parents took the baby themselves... I saw their behavior as a little odd and it looked to me that there were some kind of hidden dynamics going on between them. I have since abandoned that idea after seeing them appear to become united and much more of a "team".

 

[4Jacy]

Plaidmom's Crackpot Theory #2
***************

So in my first theory, I go with stranger abduction. It kind of ties in with some of the "mystery man" sightings we are seeing. I also would question whether or not that was the same man all along. I was thinking that perhaps Lisa was "passed off" (at least once, perhaps more?) during the night.

Theory # 2 takes into account the new cadaver dog findings.

"The Parent(s) Did It."

This seems to be a popular view. Only a huge percentage of WSers seem to pin the blame solely on the mom.

However, there have been a few, compelling, reasons to wonder if in fact Lisa Irwin was deceased earlier than first expected. Say Sunday evening or sometime during the day Monday (before Jeremy Irwin left for work).

IF, that is the case, my focus suddenly shifts from "Mom" and onto "Dad".

JI's comments about a "woman who would cheat on her husband" (I'm paraphrasing here) are intersting. DB IS, technically, cheating on her husband. Her legal husband is serving in Iraq.

I wonder if JI ever questioned her loyalty? Her fidelity, her character? I wonder if he ever swabbed baby Lisa's mouth and sent that swab away for DNA testing???

What IF JI found out that Lisa was not biologically "his"? That makes some men very very angry.

I've also considered reports that JI's custody battle was "ruthless". Many are. It is still somewhat rare for men in this country to gain custody.

IF JI killed Lisa in a fit of rage, he could hold the custody of DB's biological son over her head for compliance.

He may have even brought home the kitten to keep her (and the boys) "happy".

Guns have been found in the home. Cellphones...gone. She doesn't drive. Does she have a car? She's a SAHM. Even though DB appears assertive on camera...everything I've listed will imply being cut off from the outside world. Classic signs of an abusing controller.

"Go get yourself some wine honey". He knows what will happen. Perhaps he even slips her some extra meds.

I would LOVE at this point to be able to talk to JI's ex-wife.

**********

All speculation of course.

Please note, I see no "grey" in this case. No "mom drinks too much wine and accidentally kills her kid and hides it and dad is clueless". Sorry no.

It's either an abduction, or a deliberate act.

Either no parent is involved, or they both are.

If JI killed Lisa DB is "helping" him by hiding that fact. Or, perhaps the masses are right and it's the other way around.

IMHO

GREAT post!! Another poster suggested that perhaps Baby Lisa was not JI's child, and therefore, he OR she had a reason to dispose of this baby. Of course, we all pray that isn't the case, and that Lisa will be found alive and well, but as time marchs on, I don't think we are going to get positive answers to the prayers we have sent out.

 

[Whisperer]

It no appears that jeremy is going to stick by Lisa, regardless. His loyalty has become obvious. He is more interested in DB than his baby. His role is now of protector of his partner. Who stands to gain from baby Lisa's death? I was surprised to see the nursery look like it did. I would have thought more decoration would be in order. It was stark...and not very welcoming.

There was no stranger abduction. This is homegrown and I suspect DB harmed her child. She may have smothered or drowned her. I almost got the impression DB was already pretty drunk in the store...just a quick impression. Why didn't jeremy go to the store for lisa? What was really going on in that house all day and night. Jeremy was home for two hours between jobs and she never gave him dinner. He had to eat some time during the 20 hr day...why not at home? Concerning the phones...jeremy had one. He has to have a phone in his line of work. I also want to know how long it took him to get DB awake and alert.

IDK. Lisa's brother drove her to the store and dropped her off at her house. He doesn't lay any claim to being there that day but do we really know what was going on? It appears that a lot was going on.

If this was a normal routine, bless those little children. She stayed outside for four hours with a baby and small children running in the house? When were they put to bed? they had school...FGS?

I am betting that both of these parents have some serious drug/alcohol problems that will come out eventually. DB may have blacked out and did away with Lisa and the phones. She has no recollection; she can't even rule out herself; and she shouldn't if she blacked out...because she knows she is not sure of what she did.

Jeremy may know this..and is protecting and forgiving her...but that is darn strange behavior. What is in it for him to not get mad at the person who lost his child? What does he gain by supporting the woman who lost his child?

So these two refuse to be split up for questioning and they also refuse to have the older kids questioned!! I guess that tells us they are guilty and have something to hide. No grieving parent needs a criminal defense attorney if they are innocent. These lawyers are good at misdirecting and sending LE on all kind of goose chases..wasting tax dollars for months or years. They never let their clients speak to LE and will saturate the media with claims of cooperation. All the while a precious child is laying somewhere needing to be found. Criminal Defense Attorneys do not care about the child and don't ever believe that they do. They are there to obstruct justice and protect the guilty. I can't stand this anymore. This legal dealing and playing should not be allowed when the life of a child is at stake..and yet it happens.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Deborah has used the word 'omen' in regard to the house. Does she believe in Omens? I believe she called it the omen house.

Baby Lisa will be 1 year old on 11/11/11. Look at all of the ones! Is Deborah superstitious? An omen can be a predictor of something good or evil. Could she have thought of Baby Lisa's upcoming 1st birthday on 11/11/11 as something evil?

It does sound crazy, but I do feel that Deborah is very immature and could very well be influenced in her thinking. Did she feel she needed to disappear Baby Lisa before the 11/11/11 1st birthday?

What does an omen mean in the World of Warcraft game? I really don't know, so I am seriously asking. I have mentioned several times about Deborah's online footprints. What games, if any, did she play online? In the similiar case at Ft. Bragg, little Harmony's Mom played some sort of online game nonstop even to the point of leaving the baby malnourished, then dead. That is how into some game she was. It seems she did not want to be bothered with caring for her baby. She was too busy online playing her game.

I am really not sure what my exact point is, but I have an ominous feeling that Baby Lisa's disappearance might have been some sort of elaborate plan. I cannot help but feel there is so much more to this than meets the eye. IMO, this was no random abduction or even a kidnapping. It is the numbers + the use of the word omen that is really bothering me at this point.

Theory? A big, elaborate plan centering around omens and numbers with mental illness at the root.

Please forgive my irrational musings. It is just nagging away at me because I do feel there is just something evil going on with Baby Lisa's disappearance.

MOO

 

[natsound]

I still believe a simple explanation will prevail in Lisa's disappearance; in other words, there were no accomplices, DB accidentally killed Lisa in her sloppy state and staged a kidnapping. After poster "indepmo" explained to us how close the Missouri River is to the house, I'm currently considering whether that's where Lisa's body found itself. However, the notion of the "recently disturbed soil" in the back yard causes me to wonder if PD has already found Lisa's body and have not made that public yet. I'm guessing no, but i hope reporters have checked with the coroner to make sure.

I've been back and forth trying to analyze JI's behavior. When you read the transcripts of the interviews, it's often quiet JI who jumps out and makes an explanation about the window or the fan or the phones. Kinda strange if he doesn't know anything. My gut tells me perhaps he does know that Lisa was killed due to DB's negligence, but he's just as bad as DB is when it comes to drinking and other recreational activities, and perhaps he's not exposing her because his ugly side might be exposed too. In other words, both DB and JI are big cowards and want to save their own hides before they do right for their daughter.