Pre-meditated or Spur of the Moment?

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terminatrixator said:
There is a statistic, I will try to find, and post, but for now you can consider it hearsay until I find it, that shows that unmedicated people with bi-polar disorder or Manic Depression results in Suicide rather than Homocide.

I am not disputing the he may have been labeled with bi-polar disorder/Manic Depression, but I think it may be more an issue of Sociopathic tendancies, which fits Raven quite well.
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We've heard that Raven was diagnosed as "manic". I don't know if or how that differs from manic-depressive/bi-polar. Even if it doesn't differ, not all people will exhibit the "usual" behaviors. There are always those that vary.
 
Very true Jersey Girl, with manic depression, their impulses may not as controlled, but in the case of Raven, besides the mania, there is such a hightened visions of grandure with him, that leads me to suspect, that he also has some sociopathic tendancies. You can have more than one form of a personality disorder.

Mania causes irritability, impulsivity, and imparied judgment. It could then lead to murder, but I do believe that the murder of Janet was more thought out, whether it started that day, or a day or two previously.

I still haven't come across the study that I had seen previously, but I will try to find some good studies on the occurrences of Murder by people with Bi-Polar/Manic Depression.
 
terminatrixator said:
Very true Jersey Girl, with manic depression, their impulses may not as controlled, but in the case of Raven, besides the mania, there is such a hightened visions of grandure with him, that leads me to suspect, that he also has some sociopathic tendancies. You can have more than one form of a personality disorder.

Mania causes irritability, impulsivity, and imparied judgment. It could then lead to murder, but I do believe that the murder of Janet was more thought out, whether it started that day, or a day or two previously.
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Or long before that even. I agree with this post completely.
 
ewwwinteresting said:
Yeah, JG finally agrees with a post :):)
:woohoo:
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Ouch. That was harsh. :confused:

:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: I'm confused. Do I come off as argumentative?

Just so every one knows - I wasn't saying that I agree as a way of validating terminatrixator's post. I believe that everyone's ideas are valid whether or not I agree with them. I just like to look at things from every angle, and use that to generate discussion. I thought that was a good thing. Now I worry that all of this time, I've looked like an opinionated jerk. :(
 
JerseyGirl said:
Ouch. That was harsh. :confused:

:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec: I'm confused. Do I come off as argumentative?

Just so every one knows - I wasn't saying that I agree as a way of validating terminatrixator's post. I believe that everyone's ideas are valid whether or not I agree with them. I just like to look at things from every angle, and use that to generate discussion. I thought that was a good thing. Now I worry that all of this time, I've looked like an opinionated jerk. :(
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Honey, I think she was just playing around.

;)
 
golfmom said:
Honey, I think she was just playing around.

;)
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I'm fully aware of that. But I wanted to make sure that I explained myself to anyone that might think that I haven't valued their opinions over the months. Some people say that there's a degree of truth in every joke so I'm offering a clarification just in case.
 
JerseyGirl said:
I'm fully aware of that. But I wanted to make sure that I explained myself to anyone that might think that I haven't valued their opinions over the months. Some people say that there's a degree of truth in every joke so I'm offering a clarification just in case.
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Oh JG, I was really just playing around....no truth to it whatsoever!
:blowkiss:
I guess there are some posters that might not have understood that. For the record, I thoroughly enjoy your posts (whether you agree or agree to disagree). Having discussions on this case is what has gotten us this far so please continue to discuss, agree, disagree, batter back and forth...it keeps this forum alive in spite of the "people" trying to put it in the cold case section!
 
Jersey, I have done more research, and there is actually many more cases of homicides committed while a person with bi-polars in a Mania state, which I was completely shocked about reading. Thank you for getting me to look around more and realize, just one study isn't conclusive.

Many people that I have known with bi-polar disorder are more of manic depressive, but spend more time in the depressive state and the mania has always been more of self-hurting type thing, (spending too much money, not sleeping, having to party hardy while in the manic state.)

I found this PDF file that actually shows statistics and I was quite shocked.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/318/7193/1240.pdf

It's quite interesting, and it is quite indepth. This is a completely different study than the one I had seen previously. This study goes on to list, whether the person was working, married, have they previously sought help, etc.

Thanks again JG for bringing up the subject, I really want to find more conclusive studies though through different articles.

I think it's great that you can see both sides of the coin and bring up topics to discuss and try to see things from different angles.
 
ewwwinteresting said:
Oh JG, I was really just playing around....no truth to it whatsoever!
:blowkiss:
I guess there are some posters that might not have understood that. For the record, I thoroughly enjoy your posts (whether you agree or agree to disagree). Having discussions on this case is what has gotten us this far so please continue to discuss, agree, disagree, batter back and forth...it keeps this forum alive in spite of the "people" trying to put it in the cold case section!
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Agreed, EI. No hard feelings. I answered your post before I had my caffeine. I'm feeling much better now! :)
 
Thanks so much terminatrixator for finding that study. I'm going to read it when I'm done posting. I don't currently know any of the statistics regarding mania and violent behavior so I'm very interested in seeing what the findings are. I look forward to the potential discussions on the issue.
 
MOTIVE - IF Raven, then why? that is the thread that has the Bipolar postings on it!
I havent done a case study,I live with an 18year old son who has bipolar+OCD so I have posted the things I see ,the mania ect...
 
In light of today's new info regarding Janet being pregnant - the idea of pre-meditated versus spur of the moment takes on a whole new light.

IF Raven knew Janet was pregnant, when he found out and how he reacted become crucial issues. Was he angry? Could this have led him down a road of actually planning to murder Janet, and as harsh as it sounds, rid himself of this even NEW problem, a new baby on the way, as well? So harsh and calculating to even think about I guess, but certainly possible...
 
I have to say that it Raven is NOT the perp, he really ought to change his ways 'cuz things just seem to be piling up in terms of him looking guilty. Still, I obviously cannot say for certain that Raven is guilty of this crime.

Having said that, Janet's pregnancy does seem to add to the possibility of premeditation. At the same time, however, why would Raven do this even in part due to the pregnancy? We've heard that he was tough on Janet, kind of controlling. Wouldn't having two children tie her down even more in his eyes?

And then on the other side of that, if this is something that Raven has considered doing before, he probably thought about life with Kaiden as a single dad. Maybe he didn't want to have to be responsible for two children on his own so realized that if he was going to go through with it, it would have to be soon.

Oh, I'm so confused. I don't know what to think.
 
golfmom said:
Alright JG, I'm ready to switch songs.

As the walls ... come tumbling down ...
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that is so weird - that song has been in my head ever since I read the news today.
 
Do you think Google is such a powerful search engine that it will be able to determine if this was a premeditated crime or spur of the moment?

You know, this would make an interesting media blitz for the Power of Google.
 
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