Prior Vaginal Trauma

[Holdontoyourhat]

But like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, nothing more happens either within the family, friends, or neighborhood. Despite the sick compulsion, no more local manifestations. Suggesting a more remote origin?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Of course, we have the following ...

• Metal baseball bat with unidentified DNA, found on the R property.
• Unidentified DNA found under JBR's fingernails. Police claim this evidence is contaminated but might be usable.
• Unidentified DNA found on JBR's undergarment. Tests performed on unopened packages of the same undergarment from the same manufacturer revealed DNA. Unusable.
• Unidentified public hair found on the white blanket in the WC.
• Many hairs and fibers found do not belong to the Rs or extended family members.
• Unidentified shoe print(s) found in the WC floor.
• Unidentified palm print found on the WC door.
• "No footprints found in the snow surrounding basement windows" according to police but in fact there was no snow around most of the windows.
• The house had been remodeled .. multiple contractors.
• Source of cord and duct tape not found in the house.
• At least 15 of R's friends were given a key to the R house by JR.

What do we have pointing to either / both Rs?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

But like Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, nothing more happens either within the family, friends, or neighborhood. Despite the sick compulsion, no more local manifestations. Suggesting a more remote origin?

Is every possible "suspect" living in the area at that time still there, still alive?

It's possible the Santa Clause was someone attending JBR's mall presentation .. and he could be either a "local" or from elsewhere.

 

[madeleine]

I wonder if the dark fibers found on her shirt,the ones found in her panties (alledged JR fibers) and the ones found in her vaginal and pubic areas are a match and come from the same source?
Cause I can believe that JR was wearing that shirt while he was redressing her,staging or something but to wipe her off with it and then hand it over to LE,don't think so.
Would be interesting to know if all those dark fibers(shirt,pants,pubic area) come from the same piece of clothing.

 

[madeleine]

Is every possible "suspect" living in the area at that time still there, still alive?

It's possible the Santa Clause was someone attending JBR's mall presentation .. and he could be either a "local" or from elsewhere.

To me the Secret Santa story can have max two meanings.
it's either someone very close who was playing Santa in order to fool&abuse JB(relative,friend)


or it's another part of a sick game against the R family but has nothing to do with JB,maybe she was used just as the bait (it's me the secret santa,let me in,etc)

cause why would a pedo stranger secret santa care so much about JR and his bonus and why leave such a personal message to John?JB would be the focus of such a pervert,not her dad

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I wonder if the dark fibers found on her shirt,the ones found in her panties (alledged JR fibers) and the ones found in her vaginal and pubic areas are a match and come from the same source?
Cause I can believe that JR was wearing that shirt while he was redressing her,staging or something but to wipe her off with it and then hand it over to LE,don't think so.
Would be interesting to know if all those dark fibers(shirt,pants,pubic area) come from the same piece of clothing.

We also must include for *when* the fibers might have been deposited.

JR picked up and carried JBR's body from the WC floor and through the basement, up a flight of stairs to the 1st level and placed her on the floor, movement / contact point between JR and the body.

The advanced state of rigor mortis observed by the police that morning suggest JBR was murdered closer to 10:00 PM the previous evening.

We do not know to what degree if any that JR inspected JBR's body. It's typical for a parent to want to inspect their child for injury, etc.

Det. L. Arndt picked up JBR's body from where JR had placed it and placed it on the floor in front of the Christmas tree ... another movement / contact point.

PR knelt over JBR's body and leaned against it, cheek-to-cheek and / or cheek-to-chest as it lie in front of the Christmas tree.

I believe only the fiber evidence found in the vaginal vault might be of significance, as the external items might be "explainable", but even if the internal fibers match the externals, it might not go beyond as "being consistent with", as opposed to "an exact match".

As we all know, fiber evidence processing can be tricky.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

To me the Secret Santa story can have max two meanings.
it's either someone very close who was playing Santa in order to fool&abuse JB(relative,friend)


or it's another part of a sick game against the R family but has nothing to do with JB,maybe she was used just as the bait (it's me the secret santa,let me in,etc)

cause why would a pedo stranger secret santa care so much about JR and his bonus and why leave such a personal message to John?JB would be the focus of such a pervert,not her dad

The RN and other evidence suggests the perp had time to wander, gather materials, write a practice text and compose the 3-page RN.

During some of that time the perp surely had chance to peruse R's mail, perhaps ledgers, various art or other expensive items in some areas of the "15 room" house ...

... a build-up to a jealous hate, by someone less "fortunate"?

 

[UKGuy]

I wonder if the dark fibers found on her shirt,the ones found in her panties (alledged JR fibers) and the ones found in her vaginal and pubic areas are a match and come from the same source?
Cause I can believe that JR was wearing that shirt while he was redressing her,staging or something but to wipe her off with it and then hand it over to LE,don't think so.
Would be interesting to know if all those dark fibers(shirt,pants,pubic area) come from the same piece of clothing.

madeleine,

I reckon they are. The shirt was produced at a later date, either washed or purchased new?

Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview excerpt

10 In addition to those questions,
11 there are some others that I would like you
12 to think about whether or not we can have
13 Mrs. Ramsey perhaps in the future answer. I
14 understand you are advising her not to today,
15 and those are there are black fibers that,
16 according to our testing that was conducted,
17 that match one of the two shirts that was
18 provided to us by the Ramseys, black shirt.
19 Those are located in the
20 underpants of JonBenet Ramsey, were found in
21 her crotch area, and I believe those are two
22 other areas that we have intended to ask
23 Mrs. Ramsey about if she could help us in
24 explaining their presence in those locations.

.

 

[akashana]

Ok, well substitute your "totality of evidence" for my "body of evidence". It is still piece upon piece, and if the basis is not a fact, where does it leave the rest? I understand we are all (most of us) working to try to solve this, but if we ignore a piece of evidence (eg the rope) or if something presented to us proves to be false (eg the urine stain in the hallway), then this can change how we view the other pieces of evidence that appeared to support our theory.

Yesterday, for example, I discovered there was no basis for the belief she was murdered in the hallway and also that there is no basis for the belief that she was sexually assaulted with the end of the paintbrush (broken or intact).

Do you see how excited that makes me?? Things I had believed were true, I now find out are just speculation. It's like discovering evidence but in reverse. So I'm left wondering what other things were significant but were ignored. The rope is one thing that has been dismissed or disregarded. The open balcony adjacent to JBRs room has never been regarded as a probably entry/exit route.

I said when I first joined the forum that I believe there is sufficient evidence to solve the murder, but I now see we need to continually question the validity of 'known facts' and re-evaluate evidence that was unexplored or disregarded because it did not fit with the current theory.

Amazingly, I agree with most of your post! Except that I do not feel this case will ever be solved, and the reason for that is, sadly, the utter ineptitude of the Boulder PD. Whether or not the Ramseys murdered JB, or were responsible for her "disappearance," as it was first considered to be a kidnapping, the police on the scene failed to do basic police work. The entire house should have been considered a crime scene, the family members ushered out and questioned separately, and only detectives allowed on the premises. Evidence was irrevocably tampered, losing all evidentiary value. Pam Paugh was allowed to roam throughout the house removing a carload of potential evidence. This is unheard of in the annals of police investigative work, and they forever compromised the case by their Keystone Kops antics. But nonetheless, I still maintain my belief that one of the RDI. To me, it is illogical to believe an IDI. There are just to many frays in that fabric no matter how it is woven. I do remain openminded to the possibility however, but because of the loss of contaminated evidence, I feel that we will never see the truth in this case.

 

[UKGuy]

The RN and other evidence suggests the perp had time to wander, gather materials, write a practice text and compose the 3-page RN.

During some of that time the perp surely had chance to peruse R's mail, perhaps ledgers, various art or other expensive items in some areas of the "15 room" house ...

... a build-up to a jealous hate, by someone less "fortunate"?

ChuckMaureen,

There was only three family members resident that night. Only one or more of them would feel comfortable wandering around the house utilizing its contents.

There is no forensic evidence to match any intruder to the crime-scene, but numerous items to directly link both parents to the crime-scene, which being located in the wine-cellar and not her bedroom is significant.


.

 

[Zak]

The RN and other evidence suggests the perp had time to wander, gather materials, write a practice text and compose the 3-page RN.

During some of that time the perp surely had chance to peruse R's mail, perhaps ledgers, various art or other expensive items in some areas of the "15 room" house ...

... a build-up to a jealous hate, by someone less "fortunate"?

And yet this "perp" only asks for $118,000.00? The ledger was there, listing all of the R's assets and even an idiot would have seen that they were worth millions. So why the paltry sum? Even JAR said he could have paid that amount. Sorry, not buying it. There is no way that a "perp", intruder or SFF would only ask for that small amount in the RN.

 

[MurriFlower]

ChuckMaureen,

There was only three family members resident that night. Only one or more of them would feel comfortable wandering around the house utilizing its contents.

There is no forensic evidence to match any intruder to the crime-scene, but numerous items to directly link both parents to the crime-scene, which being located in the wine-cellar and not her bedroom is significant.


.

UkGuy I think you mean that the body was found in the wc, but this does not indicate the actual 'crime scene' which I take to mean the location(s) where she was attacked/died. I thought we recently discussed that her being killed in the hallway outside the wc was only someone's 'opinion', without basis in fact.

The unidentified DNA found in scraping down the sides of the longjohns is evidence of an intruder, as is the absence of some evidence (cord, tape, end of the paintbrush) and indicator that they were brought in and taken away.

Now, lets just assume for a minute that she was killed elsewhere. What locations would be the most likely?

Obviously in her bed is no 1. What do we know of BPD's attempts to find evidence of an intruder here? There were fibers vaccumed from her bed from the bag in which the hemp rope was found. Bedclothing was removed from her bed. Footprints on the balcony were they identified? Was the door to the balcony locked? Was the exterior of the house closely scrutinised for a possible entry point on the balcony? Was her closet searched for foreign material?

 

[SunnieRN]

The RN and other evidence suggests the perp had time to wander, gather materials, write a practice text and compose the 3-page RN.

During some of that time the perp surely had chance to peruse R's mail, perhaps ledgers, various art or other expensive items in some areas of the "15 room" house ...

... a build-up to a jealous hate, by someone less "fortunate"?

I would disagree. To me, it says that the Ramseys were lying. They knew who wrote the novelette and why.

They stated on numerous occasions that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home. Hmmm, but now people are talking about the fact that Jon Benet had a different hairstyle than at the party, we know she had pineapple in her digestive tract, that matched the pineapple on the table and her brother Burke says she walked into the house helping to carry in Christmas presents.

The Ramseys had the opportunity to have easily written the ransom novelette and I truly believe they did.

As far as a 'build-up to jealous hate', there was also someone in the family, in the house that night, that if he was a normal American child, would have had several reasons to perhaps be jealous of his baby sister, what was he capable of?

 

[DeeDee249]

I can't believe people still post about the unidentified pubic hair.

There was NO pubic hair, unidentified or not. This was determined to be a hair from the forearm of Patsy Ramsey.

Credibility is lost when false/incorrect information is posted again and again as fact.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bubm

ChuckMaureen,

There was only three family members resident that night. Only one or more of them would feel comfortable wandering around the house utilizing its contents.

There is no forensic evidence to match any intruder to the crime-scene, but numerous items to directly link both parents to the crime-scene, which being located in the wine-cellar and not her bedroom is significant.


.

A perp certainly could wander through a house and even utilize its contents and not have a second thought.

I suspect if you've ever seen surveillance footage of home invaders roam a dwelling with carefree abandon, you'd realize that for some people there are no boundaries.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdGY8S8CvK8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ygZ58bPuw[/ame]

There is no forensic evidence that has been matched to any intruder as of yet, but certainly there is evidence to suggest an intruder, such as the DNA found under JBR's fingernails and in the mix of fluids found in her crotch area and also DNA found on the metal baseball bat found on the property.

As for evidence linking both parents to the crime scene .. which evidence might that be and to which "scene"?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

And yet this "perp" only asks for $118,000.00? The ledger was there, listing all of the R's assets and even an idiot would have seen that they were worth millions. So why the paltry sum? Even JAR said he could have paid that amount. Sorry, not buying it. There is no way that a "perp", intruder or SFF would only ask for that small amount in the RN.

I believe the intruder had no true intent to elicit a ransom.

I also believe the $118,000 value was used to devalue the crime and the worth of the perp's true victim, JBR, but it was significant in the sense it is directly attributed to the "rich" JR, and extra stabm to taint the "bonus", the "reward".

A measley ransom figure for a worthless victim, lessens the guilt .. the perp's strange psychology.

 

[MurriFlower]

bubm



A perp certainly could wander through a house and even utilize its contents and not have a second thought.

I suspect if you've ever seen surveillance footage of home invaders roam a dwelling with carefree abandon, you'd realize that for some people there are no boundaries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdGY8S8CvK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9ygZ58bPuw

There is no forensic evidence that has been matched to any intruder as of yet, but certainly there is evidence to suggest an intruder, such as the DNA found under JBR's fingernails and in the mix of fluids found in her crotch area and also DNA found on the metal baseball bat found on the property.

As for evidence linking both parents to the crime scene .. which evidence might that be and to which "scene"?

Thanks for posting these two videos. Yes I think the IDI(s) that did this was/were young and very brazen person(s). It would not surprise me at all if they had a history of burglery as well as various other violent crimes.

I think that there are statistics that quote as much as 90% of all crimes are committed by less than 20% of the population, so it stands to reason that those people get very skilled and are not afraid of being caught.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Hi, SunnieRN,

bbm

I would disagree. To me, it says that the Ramseys were lying. They knew who wrote the novelette and why.

They stated on numerous occasions that JonBenet was asleep when they arrived home. Hmmm, but now people are talking about the fact that Jon Benet had a different hairstyle than at the party, we know she had pineapple in her digestive tract, that matched the pineapple on the table and her brother Burke says she walked into the house helping to carry in Christmas presents.

The Ramseys had the opportunity to have easily written the ransom novelette and I truly believe they did.

As far as a 'build-up to jealous hate', there was also someone in the family, in the house that night, that if he was a normal American child, would have had several reasons to perhaps be jealous of his baby sister, what was he capable of?

Let us not forget that the Rs visited a few friend's homes on the way home from the party, to deliver Christmas presents.

That point also is significant regarding the statement you attribute to BR ... JBR did indeed help deliver presents .. to the Rs friends they visited on the trip homeward.

The Rs skipped going to the Fernie's house because by that time JBR had fallen asleep in the vehicle so they decided to head directly home from their last visit since JBR was not awake to visit along with the rest of the family.

JBR or PR or a friend had opportunities during the visit sequence / trip homeward to reset JBR's hair .. if JBR's hair was not changed by an intruder.

Of course the Rs had "opportunity" to concoct an RN, but where is the evidence indicating they had to do so?

As for "normal", yes, siblings sometimes do react with jealousy but "normal" does not include for to the point of murder.

How many "normal", "jealous" 9-year olds act out on a sibling with procedures typically associated to adult ritualistic murderers .. craft and apply a garrotte-style erotic asphyxiation device, incorporate bondage, possible burning or stun-gun use, abusive manipulation of sex organs, etc.?

Or, do you mean to indicate BR accidently or intentionally murdered JBR with a blow to the head and the Rs attempted to cover it up by staging a crime scene?

I do not believe the Rs would nor could immediately decide to deface and degrade the lifeless body of their young daughter whom was just accidently or intentionally murdered by their young son.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I can't believe people still post about the unidentified pubic hair.

There was NO pubic hair, unidentified or not. This was determined to be a hair from the forearm of Patsy Ramsey.

Credibility is lost when false/incorrect information is posted again and again as fact.

Remove the hair, originally identified as type "pubic", from the evidence log and you still have the remaining items that still suggest an intruder.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I believe the intruder had no true intent to elicit a ransom.

I also believe the $118,000 value was used to devalue the crime and the worth of the perp's true victim, JBR, but it was significant in the sense it is directly attributed to the "rich" JR, and extra stabm to taint the "bonus", the "reward".

A measley ransom figure for a worthless victim, lessens the guilt .. the perp's strange psychology.

If the ransom figure was supposed to be an insult then wouldn't it be less than $118,000, and why the extra 18,000?