Procedure and legal questions

[ecs5298]

Exactly. There's no trial by ambush allowed! You can bet the SA would object on the grounds of JBaez's failure to provide whatever it is within the discovery delays prior to trial, and the judge would grant the SA's motion/objection to any such item's attempted introduction into evidence.

Thank you Chezhire!

 

[SoSueMe]

I'm still having a problem with a jury panel of six. They would not seat twelve jurors for a First Degree Felony Murder charge?

Also, since the death penalty is off the table, couldn't she be bailed out?

TIA

 

[doogiesgirl]

Ok if this has been asked already---sorry.

I get that if KC confessed to killing Caylee that that is privleged information. What I want to know is does JB's privlege cover the actual body? This was an unsolved murder, the cops were still looking for the body, if JB knew where KC dumped her doesn't JB have some kind of obligation to report the location of the body to LE? I just can't believe that under the law he is allowed to keep that under wraps??? Any lawyers on here? Thanks. jmo

 

[amethyst221]

More LEGAL QUESTIONS:

1. If Baez is obligated to keep confidential "privileged" communication information about physical evidence like the location of Caylee's body, what about P.I. Casey?

If P.I. Casey found Caylee and did not remove or tamper with anything was he legally obligated to report his find?

If P.I. Casey didn't find Caylee because of a random tip from a psychic but got the location from one of the Anthony's would that change his obligation?

2. Is there any way that Lee could officially be made an agent for Baez like a secretary or assistant?

I think Cindy and George knew before P.I. Casey was sent to Suburban to look for Caylee that Caylee was dead. Baez's objection to P.I. Casey being subpoenaed was that he had information that was privileged work product. P.I. Casey was allowed to go off the record when talking about the person who told him not to call 911 if he found Caylee.

John Morgan said Lee told P.I. Casey. I don't know how it is possible for information coming from Lee to be privileged.

But I also can't imagine Baez telling P.I. Casey to not call 911 if he found Caylee.

I need some legal input to understand how this information fits together.

Thanks!!!!

These are not simple questions. Baez generally has to keep confidential his attorney - client communications with his client. There might be a very limited number or circle of people who work for him who legitimately come into possession of the A/C communication and who must keep it confidential. Because they would be the lawyer's agents, their hearing/seeing/knowing the information would not waive the privilege, as would normally happen if a random third party shared in or "overheard" the information. These kinds of factual details are the stuff people litigate and make legal arguments about so that the question of privilege can be determined. No court would uphold obvious ploys to designate tons of people (like Casey's family members) "employees" or agents of the attorney who share in the right/obligation to shield information. What is protected is the client's right to communicate with her lawyer freely about the matters in which he is representing her. If the information is privileged, then it remains so, even after the relationship ends.

The fact that Casey, for example, might tell her lawyer something but also tell other people the same information, does not make the info A/C privileged in the hands of the other, non-lawyers. If she confided in her family, they have no privilege to rely on to refuse to tell the information. For some, the alternative solution might just be to lie and fail to disclose the info, but that's an entirely different story. If these non-lawyer third parties pass the information on to yet others, like a PI they employ, that does not make it A/C privileged info such that Casey A could claim it cannot be revealed. There might be some other, wholly separate privilege (not quite as inviolable as the A/C privilege) to protect the info to a degree. (For example, if Florida recognizes a PI/client privilege of confidentiality, and to what extent. This privilege is FAR more likely to have to yield or give way in the face of a criminal investigation by LE).

In this case, we have (allegedly) serial employment of certain people, loose or undefined other relationships, etc. It all depends on the specific facts in each instance whether something is privileged. PI Casey, if he really was legitimately employed by JB and thus came to share some A/C communication in the course of that, could not reveal it. If instead he learned the same information later, from an A family member who was told it by Casey A, it would be totally different.

Not sure if any of this helps, but maybe.

 

[amethyst221]

Ok if this has been asked already---sorry.

I get that if KC confessed to killing Caylee that that is privleged information. What I want to know is does JB's privlege cover the actual body? This was an unsolved murder, the cops were still looking for the body, if JB knew where KC dumped her doesn't JB have some kind of obligation to report the location of the body to LE? I just can't believe that under the law he is allowed to keep that under wraps??? Any lawyers on here? Thanks. jmo

He couldn't reveal the location of the body because he learned it in a privileged communication. You can't really separate the "body" or remains from the communication. Her own lawyer could not lead LE to incriminating evidence against her that she, hypothetically, told him about.

 

[Paintr]

JB received a law degree and 8 years later passed the Bar. This seems quite a long delay. What is considered an average length of time between getting the degree and passing the Bar?

If you have a law degree but haven't passed the Bar, what can you use the degree for? Can a person do any legal work without passing the BAR?

ETA I know that the Bar exams/process may be taken more than once if a person fails the first attempt. Is there a cut off point? Sort of a three strikes and you're out rule? Or can someone repeat the process as many times as required to pass?

 

[Mendara]

Ok if this has been asked already---sorry.

I get that if KC confessed to killing Caylee that that is privleged information. What I want to know is does JB's privlege cover the actual body? This was an unsolved murder, the cops were still looking for the body, if JB knew where KC dumped her doesn't JB have some kind of obligation to report the location of the body to LE? I just can't believe that under the law he is allowed to keep that under wraps??? Any lawyers on here? Thanks. jmo

I heard that if Casey confesses to Baez that he can't be the lead attorney and must remain silent during the trial if the plea is not guilty, because he can purger himself numerous ways by trying to defend a guilty client. Is that true? Unless JB is a reall scuzz bag - I don't think he knew Caylee was in the woods.

 

[amethyst221]

JB received a law degree and 8 years later passed the Bar. This seems quite a long delay. What is considered an average length of time between getting the degree and passing the Bar?

If you have a law degree but haven't passed the Bar, what can you use the degree for? Can a person do any legal work without passing the BAR?

Normally, people go to law school so that they can practice law. Some just do it to know the law better in relation to their other work, though it's a hard three years just for that. I've heard of people with medical and legal degrees who serve as consultants on med/legal issues, but practice neither profession. The usual thing to do would be to sign up and take the bar exam as soon as possible, so that you could start practicing and be employed. You can't engage in the unauthorized practice of law (appear in court, sign pleadings, etc.) Some state's (at least this used to be true) only give a bar exam once a year, or twice, and many have rules about how often and how soon you can re-take the exam if you fail. So the process of taking, failing, re-taking could cause a lapse of time, though I don't know if that happened here. I guess someone could have other, specific reasons for not taking the bar exam right after law school, like going into another line of work, military service, etc.

I guess if you were in process of trying to pass the bar you could do legal related jobs that didn't require you to be a lawyer. There are also some internship sort of programs where people work under the supervision of lawyers before they are admitted to the bar.

 

[MiraclesHappen]

I heard that if Casey confesses to Baez that he can't be the lead attorney and must remain silent during the trial if the plea is not guilty, because he can purger himself numerous ways by trying to defend a guilty client. Is that true? Unless JB is a reall scuzz bag - I don't think he knew Caylee was in the woods.

No, it's not true.

If she confessed, JB must remain silent and not divulge the info as it is protected by the atty client privilege and it does not fall within the ethical and statutory guidelines as a matter which should not be held in confidence and thus,divulged by the attorney.
These are strict guidelines which do not indicate a lawyer is or is not a "scuzz", but work to insure the free flow of information from ordinary people to their attorneys in general.
Attorneys cannot do the job adequately if the folks who consult with them have to constantly worry about "things getting out" and thus, hold back pertinent facts or won't talk about info needed to form a basis for getting the needed legal help.

The effect of the confession in this instance would be that JB CANNOT put her on the stand to claim her innocence, as this is "suborning perjury."
That's where the perjury thing came from, Mendara:wink:
He can, however, mount a defense and stay within ethical guidelines.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

 

[MiraclesHappen]

If you have a law degree but haven't passed the Bar, what can you use the degree for?

Paintr,
You can use it for redecorating a wall with the pretty framed diploma. :Banane23:

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

 

[Paintr]

Normally, people go to law school so that they can practice law. Some just do it to know the law better in relation to their other work, though it's a hard three years just for that. I've heard of people with medical and legal degrees who serve as consultants on med/legal issues, but practice neither profession. The usual thing to do would be to sign up and take the bar exam as soon as possible, so that you could start practicing and be employed. You can't engage in the unauthorized practice of law (appear in court, sign pleadings, etc.) Some state's (at least this used to be true) only give a bar exam once a year, or twice, and many have rules about how often and how soon you can re-take the exam if you fail. So the process of taking, failing, re-taking could cause a lapse of time, though I don't know if that happened here. I guess someone could have other, specific reasons for not taking the bar exam right after law school, like going into another line of work, military service, etc.

I guess if you were in process of trying to pass the bar you could do legal related jobs that didn't require you to be a lawyer. There are also some internship sort of programs where people work under the supervision of lawyers before they are admitted to the bar.

Boy! You are Good! I edited my post to add another question and you answered that question wiithout even seeing it. :clap:

Thank you kindly for the information. I really wasn't trying to be snarky towards JB, I just thought that the more time that had passed since law school ( before sitting for the bar) the harder it would be. Eight yeears just seemed a long time to keep all the info learned in law school fresh and readily brought to mind.

 

[Paintr]

Paintr,
You can use it for redecorating a wall with the pretty framed diploma. :Banane23:

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Thank you kindly, Miracles, for my morning laugh. :blowkiss:

 

[MiraclesHappen]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Thank you kindly, Miracles, for my morning laugh. :blowkiss:

:blowkiss:My pleasure.
If you behave, Paintr, you'll get another one later!
Ahhh who am I kidding. You have cute pets. Don't behave. We will laugh later anyway.:wolf:

 

[MiraclesHappen]

c

I'm still having a problem with a jury panel of six. They would not seat twelve jurors for a First Degree Felony Murder charge? ....



TIA

SoSueMe,
Not to worry.
It still falls within the definition of "capital crime" and per the statute and case law, will therefore have a 12 person jury.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

case posted in thread on 6 vs 12 Jurors....

 

[Paintr]

:blowkiss:My pleasure.
If you behave, Paintr, you'll get another one later!
Ahhh who am I kidding. You have cute pets. Don't behave. We will laugh later anyway.:wolf:

I promise, I'll behave. (notice I didn't specify whose rules of behaviour I will follow. ) I am learning quite a lot about wording from all the legal eagles on here.

My pets thank you!:blowkiss:

 

[amethyst221]

Paintr,
You can use it for redecorating a wall with the pretty framed diploma. :Banane23:

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

While you embark on a second career as a crazed hula dancer. Happens all the time. lol

 

[Chezhire]

Thank you Chezhire!

:blowkiss:
You're welcome, ecs5298.

 

[Mendara]

No, it's not true.

If she confessed, JB must remain silent and not divulge the info as it is protected by the atty client privilege and it does not fall within the ethical and statutory guidelines as a matter which should not be held in confidence and thus,divulged by the attorney.
These are strict guidelines which do not indicate a lawyer is or is not a "scuzz", but work to insure the free flow of information from ordinary people to their attorneys in general.
Attorneys cannot do the job adequately if the folks who consult with them have to constantly worry about "things getting out" and thus, hold back pertinent facts or won't talk about info needed to form a basis for getting the needed legal help.

The effect of the confession in this instance would be that JB CANNOT put her on the stand to claim her innocence, as this is "suborning perjury."
That's where the perjury thing came from, Mendara:wink:
He can, however, mount a defense and stay within ethical guidelines.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

OH thank you so much. I spelled Perjury wrong. I promise I AM BERRY SMARTS.

 

[Chezhire]

No, it's not true.

If she confessed, JB must remain silent and not divulge the info as it is protected by the atty client privilege and it does not fall within the ethical and statutory guidelines as a matter which should not be held in confidence and thus,divulged by the attorney.
These are strict guidelines which do not indicate a lawyer is or is not a "scuzz", but work to insure the free flow of information from ordinary people to their attorneys in general.
Attorneys cannot do the job adequately if the folks who consult with them have to constantly worry about "things getting out" and thus, hold back pertinent facts or won't talk about info needed to form a basis for getting the needed legal help.

The effect of the confession in this instance would be that JB CANNOT put her on the stand to claim her innocence, as this is "suborning perjury."
That's where the perjury thing came from, Mendara:wink:
He can, however, mount a defense and stay within ethical guidelines.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

Well stated, MH. Want to add a practical observation to that fine analysis:

if it were true, as the poster asked, that "if Casey confesses to Baez that he can't be the lead attorney and must remain silent during the trial if the plea is not guilty, because he can purger himself numerous ways by trying to defend a guilty client," then, as a procedural matter, it could cause the defendant, who is innocent until proven guilty, to appear even more guilty by virtue of her hitherto lead counsel all of a sudden taking a back seat for the trial itself. The law does not allow for the potential for such procedural prejudice, despite how slight the potential may be.

 

[Chezhire]

c

SoSueMe,
Not to worry.
It still falls within the definition of "capital crime" and per the statute and case law, will therefore have a 12 person jury.

Humble-Opinion:wolf:

case posted in thread on 6 vs 12 Jurors....

ITA - it will necessarily be a 12 member jury.