Psychological Markers

[Peter Brendt]

I recently realized the last sentence of the updated STALK, Inc. profile stated “This killer of women and children”.

As far as I know, there is only 1 child victim.

Is the word “children” used as a descriptor in the sentence or to indicate quantity?

Derogative descriptor

 

[Clem Snide]

Did I forget to mention, flush-out profiling carries some risks? But really, how do those S.T.A.L.K. guys think a really pissed off maniac will react on their little mind games? If we're lucky, he doesn't take them serious and does nothing. if we're unlucky, he thinks, he has to prove something. Which should make John Kelly think a little about the ways, how homicidal madmen tend to prove their points, which is normally by dropping dead people.

If today's body is related, that's a lightening quick response. I suppose it's a calculated risk. He's going to kill again anyway, so if you attempt to flush him out and it leads to murder, is it LE's fault? I don't know the right answer. Perhaps it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Wonder how long it'll be before we get any info on this recent find.

 

[Peter Brendt]

If today's body is related, that's a lightening quick response. I suppose it's a calculated risk. He's going to kill again anyway, so if you attempt to flush him out and it leads to murder, is it LE's fault? I don't know the right answer. Perhaps it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Wonder how long it'll be before we get any info on this recent find.

This murder can't be related. If they can't determine gender at sight anymore, those remains have been out there for some time, probably years.
And when it comes to the other subject: Calculated risk is a great thing, since the guys who calculate are not the guys who die. And since another murder doesn't lead inevitable to an arrest, it's simply reckless in my opinion. But then, the fame goes to the loudest ...

 

[shadowraiths]

And when it comes to the other subject: Calculated risk is a great thing, since the guys who calculate are not the guys who die. And since another murder doesn't lead inevitable to an arrest, it's simply reckless in my opinion. But then, the fame goes to the loudest ...

Reckless is an understatement. Imnsho, of course.

 

[Bellaneph]

If today's body is related, that's a lightening quick response. I suppose it's a calculated risk. He's going to kill again anyway, so if you attempt to flush him out and it leads to murder, is it LE's fault? I don't know the right answer. Perhaps it's best to let sleeping dogs lie.

Wonder how long it'll be before we get any info on this recent find.

Well, according to these 2 links, seems like the latest body is fresh and it's a female who died a week ago, so who knows. We need more info on COD and MO, but seems strange to find a fresh body after all provoking.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577297831886078446.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...rville-Long-Island-Gilgo-Beach-143784046.html

 

[Dwntwnslim]

RiverheadPatch
Cops: No Evidence Linking Manorville Body to Gilgo
By Joseph Pinciaro
March 23, 2012 11:45am
http://riverhead.patch.com/articles/cops-no-evidence-linking-manorville-body-to-gilgo

The STALK, Inc. profile was updated on 3.18.12, three days before the body was found. According to the article linked below, the most recent body was there at least a week.

“According to police, the corpse belonged to a female, and was found around 4:30 p.m. on March 21. While police couldn't put an exact amount of time that they believe the body had been in the woods - about 100 yards from where any vehicle could have traveled - they said it was there for at least a week and 'not an incredibly long time.'”

Link to the STALK, Inc. Profile:

http://stalkinc.com/profile6.html

“From what we understand, this loser has made a number of mistakes in the murders of his victims, that will come back to haunt him.
As we post this comment law-enforcement is getting closer to catching this DUMMY. This killer of women and children.”

“Updated 03/18/2012*”

 

[MarshaRice]

I have made it no secret that I do not agree for the most part with either the STALK profile nor their tactics. I personally think that they are wasting their time trying to taunt and pushing for reactions from the offender(s). Those involved in these killings, be it one or two or more killers, I truly believe are too deeply delusional and involved in their own grandiose notions of greatness to have these notions challenged by law enforcement. Of course offenders of this type are pathologically narcissistic, but the offender(s) of these crimes at Long Island and Manorville, I do believe to have such profound psychotic pathology that law enforcement is just wasting their time trying to bait, taunt, or provoke. I just truly think that resources would be much better used to appeal to those surrounding the offender(s) be they accomplices or just people who know what is going on, because I do think there is at least one person, to come forward and tell what they know. Offer more money in the reward. Let it be known just how dangerous this offender(s) is to everyone, not just his chosen victim set and maybe someone will come forward.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I have made it no secret that I do not agree for the most part with either the STALK profile nor their tactics. I personally think that they are wasting their time trying to taunt and pushing for reactions from the offender(s). Those involved in these killings, be it one or two or more killers, I truly believe are too deeply delusional and involved in their own grandiose notions of greatness to have these notions challenged by law enforcement. Of course offenders of this type are pathologically narcissistic, but the offender(s) of these crimes at Long Island and Manorville, I do believe to have such profound psychotic pathology that law enforcement is just wasting their time trying to bait, taunt, or provoke. I just truly think that resources would be much better used to appeal to those surrounding the offender(s) be they accomplices or just people who know what is going on, because I do think there is at least one person, to come forward and tell what they know. Offer more money in the reward. Let it be known just how dangerous this offender(s) is to everyone, not just his chosen victim set and maybe someone will come forward.

How is it possible for a person to be both pathologically narcissistic and psychotic?

 

[Theforeigner]

IMO a psychotic person would never ever be able to pull of a series of killings like this without leaving LOTS of evidence.
A psychotic killer is not able to be an organized killer, they don´t have propper sense of reality.

This killer is IMO more of an organized narcissistic psychopath.
Probably even a charming one, who knows really well how to mimic great social skills.

 

[shadowraiths]

Fyi, narcissistic psychopathy is redundant. If an individual meets the criteria for psychopathy, they already exhibit pathological narcissistic traits.

 

[Theforeigner]

Fyi, narcissistic psychopathy is redundant. If an individual meets the criteria for psychopathy, they already exhibit pathological narcissistic traits.

Not so sure that is correct shadowraiths, take a look at this:

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/22/narcissist-or-sociopath-whats-difference


A Narcissist invests all of his energy into ensuring others validate his fragile ego. He lives in a frantic state of paranoia that he will be exposed at any minute. Consumed with avoiding this inevitable disaster, he has little energy to be genuinely interested in others.

A Sociopath, on the other hand, is quite different. To begin with, a Sociopath has no need to be validated by others. Unlike a Narcissist, a Sociopath has no underlying neediness for others approval. His remorseless behavior does not stem from a deep insecurity, like a Narcissist. Instead, he desires to exploit others simply for his entertainment and amusement.

Both a Narcissist and a Sociopath use others as objects, but a Sociopath is more exploitive. A Narcissist desperately needs others to validate him. He will only exploit those who pose a threat to him. His remaining victims (the ones who stroke his ego and provide supply) are vital to his sense of self. Without these people in his life worshipping him at all times, he will crumble.

A Sociopath has no need for others to validate his existence. He sees others as play things. The main character in the show “Dexter” is a perfect example of a Sociopath. He has no need for others except to the extent they can provide amusement to him. He exploits others to see what he can get away with because he finds it thrilling and exciting.

 

[Peter Brendt]

Not so sure that is correct shadowraiths, take a look at this:

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/06/22/narcissist-or-sociopath-whats-difference


A Narcissist invests all of his energy into ensuring others validate his fragile ego. He lives in a frantic state of paranoia that he will be exposed at any minute. Consumed with avoiding this inevitable disaster, he has little energy to be genuinely interested in others.

A Sociopath, on the other hand, is quite different. To begin with, a Sociopath has no need to be validated by others. Unlike a Narcissist, a Sociopath has no underlying neediness for others approval. His remorseless behavior does not stem from a deep insecurity, like a Narcissist. Instead, he desires to exploit others simply for his entertainment and amusement.

Both a Narcissist and a Sociopath use others as objects, but a Sociopath is more exploitive. A Narcissist desperately needs others to validate him. He will only exploit those who pose a threat to him. His remaining victims (the ones who stroke his ego and provide supply) are vital to his sense of self. Without these people in his life worshipping him at all times, he will crumble.

A Sociopath has no need for others to validate his existence. He sees others as play things. The main character in the show “Dexter” is a perfect example of a Sociopath. He has no need for others except to the extent they can provide amusement to him. He exploits others to see what he can get away with because he finds it thrilling and exciting.

Slow down a little, please. First, there is a difference between sociopath and psychopath. Both are antisocial but it's the psychopath, who has a sense of entitlement and need for control in everything, while the sociopath normally doesn't care at all. Second thing, it's usually the psychopath, who can bottle up rage and be fueled by it, the sociopath once more doesn't care enough to do so. So most anti social SKs are psychopaths (however, I don't recommend to cross a sociopath either).
A narcissist, in the sense of a fully established NPD is usually overcompensating for self-perceived flaws. Even that is often not even conscious.
So, from a pure logical point of view, if I can bring one example for a psychopath without NPD and one example for a NPD patient not a psychopath, I have proven, they are independent.

- Jeffrey Dahmer (OCD into the delusional and a psychopath, but NOT a narcissist in the sense of DSM-IV);
- Billy Glaze (Narcissist, bot not a psychopathic, but a mission-driven, slightly delusional SK).

So obviously it's not necessarily connected, even we have seen the combination frequently (for example in Rodney Alcala).
Another nice example for a sadistic psychopath who wasn't a narcissist in the diagnostic sense was Angelo Buono, the older of the Hillside Stranglers. And of course, Charles Manson, even not an SK in the classic definition comes to mind.

 

[shadowraiths]

To clarify ( link ):

Individuals with narcissistic personality disorder, malignant narcissism, and psychopathy all display similar traits which are outlined in the Hare Psychopathy Checklist. (The traits in the checklist are common amongst individuals with psychological disorders. The psychopath/malignant narcissist must display a strong tendency towards these characteristics.)​

Notably, psychopathy is not a DSM-IV disorder. Moreover, there is still disagreement within the field wrt using sociopathy interchangeably with psychopathy. I, personally, consider the two to be distinct, though, on the same trait continuum, with psychopathy being at the extreme end. And finally, people who meet the criteria for sociopathy, could conceivably be dx'd with ASPD with narcissistic features. They'd rarely, if ever, be dually dx'd. Nonetheless, the narcissistic features distinction is unnecessary for those who meet Hare's criteria for psychopathy, in that his checklist already includes narcissistic criteria (i.e., grandiose sense of self worth, lack of empathy, etc.)

NB: Those in the field of forensic psych consider Hare's PCL-R to be the gold standard with regard to identifying psychopathy.

 

[LINative13]

I have been called a sociopath before. Afterwards I asked my therapist if I was a sociopath. He explained it to me as being indifferent to situations that normally stir up emotions to other people. You do not have to be violent so be a sociopath. You do not have to lack morals to be a sociopath either.

 

[MarshaRice]

How is it possible for a person to be both pathologically narcissistic and psychotic?

It is very easy for a person to be both pathologically narcissistic and psychotic, because psychoses usually comes and goes in episodic states. Pathological narcissism is a constant, however, episodes of psychosis would elevate other aspects of the affected person's personality which would put less emphasis on narcissism and more on psychotic symptomology (i.e. delusions, hallucinations, grandiose notions). Pathological narcissism and psychosis go hand in hand in most psychotic disorders, for a blatant example look at the average case of bipolar disorder whose diagnostic markers include psychotic episodes (psychosis) and grandiose notions (psychotic in nature, but related to pathological narcissism). In schizophrenia there are often instances of an elevated sense of importance (e.g. narcissism) which inititates entire delusional typology of the person being a "chosen one" from a particular religious viewpoint or being so important that the FBI/CIA/KGB etc is "watching them" "trying to kidnap/kill them" etc. However, even though the delusion may begin due to narcissism, the delusion itself begins to take over the entire vision of the affected person--hence the psychosis outweighs the narcissism, although technically they are both still present.

 

[MarshaRice]

I have been called a sociopath before. Afterwards I asked my therapist if I was a sociopath. He explained it to me as being indifferent to situations that normally stir up emotions to other people. You do not have to be violent so be a sociopath. You do not have to lack morals to be a sociopath either.

Actually, the markers for sociopathy do in fact negate morals. The sociopath is amoral, meaning this individual is of the opinion that rules that apply and moral behaviors that apply to other people do not apply to him/her. All human beings have varying amounts of sociopathic tendencies along the continuum which may arise in certain situations, however, what signifies the true sociopath is that he/she is amoral all the time in every situation. They know the difference between right and wrong, they just don't care. Also, although one theoretically does not have to be violent to be a sociopath, I have never seen a case where this was not true. Mental, physical, and sexual abuse is how sociopaths retain the power they have over other people. Sociopaths have no morals, no feelings, no emotional attachments. They have convenient associations, that's all.

 

[LINative13]

Complex topic indeed. I have heard its more of having the ability to seperate from feelings. Not actually doing it all the time. Most of them to show compassion to something.

 

[MarshaRice]

As a psychology doctoral student with an avid interest in this very subject, I could go on for aeons about the psychopathology typology classification of sociopathic, psychopathic, and APD. However, I will try to make this short. There is no definitive separation in psychiatry or psychology in the terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" and they are often used interchangeably and have been for many years. In a person who fits the DSM criteria for APD, psychopathic/sociopathic character traits are often prominent, conversely, in persons with sociopathic/psychopathic character traits it is often found that this person also has a comorbid APD condition. So, even though they all three do not technically mean the same thing, they are often used interchangeably. At the core of all three is one strong undercurrent that ties them together, which is the systematic manipulation and/or abuse of other people for one's own personal gain.

 

[MarshaRice]

Complex topic indeed. I have heard its more of having the ability to seperate from feelings. Not actually doing it all the time. Most of them to show compassion to something.

Having the ability to separate from feelings = stoic
Not having feelings for anyone or anything except in direct relation to how they affect you = sociopath.
We all have sociopathic tendencies and characteristics that can arise in certain situations, very few are actually true sociopaths. Sociopaths use other people like non-sociopaths use tissues to blow their nose. Other people are only objects to be used to obtain a goal. This is not a view conducive to any type of morality.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

It is very easy for a person to be both pathologically narcissistic and psychotic, because psychoses usually comes and goes in episodic states. Pathological narcissism is a constant, however, episodes of psychosis would elevate other aspects of the affected person's personality which would put less emphasis on narcissism and more on psychotic symptomology (i.e. delusions, hallucinations, grandiose notions). Pathological narcissism and psychosis go hand in hand in most psychotic disorders, for a blatant example look at the average case of bipolar disorder whose diagnostic markers include psychotic episodes (psychosis) and grandiose notions (psychotic in nature, but related to pathological narcissism). In schizophrenia there are often instances of an elevated sense of importance (e.g. narcissism) which inititates entire delusional typology of the person being a "chosen one" from a particular religious viewpoint or being so important that the FBI/CIA/KGB etc is "watching them" "trying to kidnap/kill them" etc. However, even though the delusion may begin due to narcissism, the delusion itself begins to take over the entire vision of the affected person--hence the psychosis outweighs the narcissism, although technically they are both still present.

Pathological Narcissism., Psychosis, and Delusions
By: Dr. Sam Vaknin
http://samvak.tripod.com/journal91.html

“Though the narcissistic personality is rigid – its content is always in flux. Narcissists forever re-invent themselves, adapt their consumption of Narcissistic Supply to the 'marketplace", attuned to the needs of their "suppliers'. Like the performers that they are, they resonate with their "audience", giving it what it expects and wants. They are efficient instruments for the extraction and consumption of human reactions.”

“As a result of this interminable process of fine tuning, narcissists have no loyalties, no values, no doctrines, no beliefs, no affiliations, and no convictions. Their only constraint is their addiction to human attention, positive or negative.”

“Psychotics, by comparison, are fixated on a certain view of the world and of their place in it. They ignore any and all information that might challenge their delusions. Gradually, they retreat into the inner recesses of their tormented mind and become dysfunctional.”

“Narcissists can't afford to shut out the world because they so heavily depend on it for the regulation of their labile sense of self-worth. Owing to this dependence, they are hypersensitive and hypervigilant, alert to every bit of new data. They are continuously busy rearranging their self-delusions to incorporate new information in an ego-syntonic manner”.

“This is why the Narcissistic Personality Disorder is insufficient grounds for claiming a 'diminished capacity' (insanity) defence. Narcissists are never divorced from reality – they crave it, and need it, and consume it in order to maintain the precarious balance of their disorganised, borderline-psychotic personality. All narcissists, even the freakiest ones, can tell right from wrong, act with intent, and are in full control of their faculties and actions.”


**Or, are you talking about pathological narcissism and “Brief Psychotic Disorder”?