PTL (Peach Tree Landing)

[Ghostwheel]

Do we have any idea whether SM or TM even knew the location of Heather's new apartment?

Heather moved after the M's left for their extended trip to Disney? Right?

Was Heather's previous address anywhere near 10th Avenue?
Still trying to figure out whether SM was leaving Broadway with TM on Dec 18 or if he took her home and returned to 10th Avenue.

This could make sense if Heather's old place was nearby and he wasn't aware she'd moved. He'd been out of town the entire time she'd lived at her new place. No access to social media, his own phone code locked by TM. Why would he have known?

I'm assuming Heather would've been fairly discreet about the move, especially after the threatening texts from TM.

BBM: Good point. That would make it less creepy that he called from 10th street, when she had just gotten gas from that area earlier. Maybe he was trying to find out where she lived, and she wouldn't tell him, hence PTL.

 

[Ghostwheel]

IMO, Heather doesn't seem like the runaway type. She was looking forward to a cosmetology job she just picked up. I'd rule out running away with SM. OTOH, her new apt. was close to her job at the Tilted Kilt. I'm not sure if SM new where she lived. But, we do have knowledge that Broadway At The Beach or Celebrity Circle is where the Ms were caught on camera exposing themselves And we do have knowledge that pictures of those exposures were sent to Heather. I'm kind of sticking to my theory that once SM caught wind that his wife sent those pics to Heather some kind of argument ensued and TM threw him out of the truck. I do think it was sheer coincidence that they were close to Heathers apt. I say this because if they knew where she lived why not drive over and confront her?

So, where am I going with this...TM NEVER knew about the first call. LE has never said TM was with SM when that payphone call was made. Even reporters are speculating that they do NOT know WHO was with SM when he made the call.

IMO, this plan was hatched at the last minute, after the call was made to SMs phone. TM orchestrated it and puppet man went along like the whipped little man that he is. In haste, they forgot about cell phone pings and cars in the grander scheme of things. I hope they both get convicted.


where is Heather?


eta: so far the only thing up to now they have been successful with is hiding the body.

I can't give them any credit for that. It looks like it's pretty easy to hide a body around South Carolina. Searchers found a set of remains that had been around for a while, and look how close Samantha Smith was to her home, and she wasn't found for 8 years.

 

[ISWMLE]

I can't give them any credit for that. It looks like it's pretty easy to hide a body around South Carolina. Searchers found a set of remains that had been around for a while, and look how close Samantha Smith was to her home, and she wasn't found for 8 years.

and poor little Britannee Drexel. that stll bothers me till this day.

I'm moving to MB in a few years. Hope I'm making the right decision.

 

[CHERIE.T]

My thoughts about how HE was killed change almost daily.
I think her murder was premeditated. I'm guessing Heather was rendered unconscious by one of the M's, put into a vehicle and murdered in the vehicle.
The timeline is tight ... the murder was swift.

 

[jillycat]

SM would not take off with Heather because there would be consequences, yet he would kill Heather instead and think no consequences? I'm not understanding how that could make sense to SM. Or do you just think that SM didn't really care about Heather, so had no reason to run off with her, that he was in on the murder from the beginning?

LE says SM and Heather "cared for each other". So they broke off the affair because...?

Because TM.

So, SM deciding he could run away with Heather, abandoning his kids and the marriage to TM, does not make sense to me.

But given the absence of Heather for over three months, it makes sense to me that the M's thought they could get away with killing her...unless we accept the premise that SM was chained to a bed, knew nothing about TM's killing spree, and has no idea what happened to Heather. I guess we'll see how strong that case, or something like it, works for SM's lawyer.

I agree, leaving the car at PTL makes no sense. One reason I can think of to do that is that they intended to come back and get it, and something came up.

This is plausible to me. I've also considered the scenario of an "oops" killing and then a panic. But I don't think TM wanted to just talk to Heather or scare her. She had already done that and Heather was no longer seeing SM. I think she wanted her dead and why she chose the early morning of 12/18 is anyone's guess.

I've also considered that Heather didn't drive her car to PTL and it was taken there to distract from what happened elsewhere. I don't know how I feel about that now. I neither fully embrace or fully reject that possibility. I do question some of the phone record and whether or not Heather was in control of her phone as late as 3:41, and I think there's a difference between calls coming from a particular phone, and calls coming from a particular person.

When I say "see what sticks", I don't mean just charging them with random charges. I mean charging them with the most they can get away with, considering what evidence they have, knowing that the heaviest charge is often going to end up plea bargained (the original charge doesn't "stick"), as in the case of Peggy Sue Thomas where she plea bargained from 1st degree murder to Rendering Criminal Assistance in the first degree. Just so I have made myself clear.

Yes, unless someone has already talked.

My point is that if LE didn't think it could make a murder charge stick, the M's wouldn't have been arrested and charged. Plea bargains flow from something having already stuck.

And I think if someone had already talked, we'd see a recovery effort somewhere.

 

[stmarysmead]

I think SM may have cared for Heather but I doubt he was leaving his wife, children and Disney trekking life for a pretty 20 yr. old. I think after he was caught, he was desperate for TM's forgiveness. I think TM, especially when drunk (which I bet was daily) kept coming up with new punishments or tests. Being chained, taking her to work, no phone or social media.

That night, TM demanded to be taken to the places where SM and Heather had had sex. She wanted pix of her and SM in those places to trump Heather sexually..."see, he wants ME!"

Remember TM posted they had sex three times in the back of Heathers car? Maybe they were going to the three places SM admitted to (even if in fact there were lots more.)

So, they go to two of the places and take their pictures and send them to Heather. Heather, however, is on her date and either does not immediately see them or ignores them. Tammy was probably quite annoyed by the lack of reaction. She is even angrier.

So perhaps she decides to up the stakes. Was Peachtree Landing the THIRD place SM admitted to having sex with Heather? Maybe TM wants Heather lured there to make her watch them. Wouldn't that be the ultimate revenge? Get her there. Restrain her and make her see how SM adores his "gorgeous sexy wife!"

So they call Heather...but she initially says no. Maybe SM...on instructions from TM...says "Well, call me back if you change your mind."

Heather calls her friend, crying...but then she is tempted. She calls the pay phone a few times, but no answer. Then....she thinks...hey, he must mean he has his phone back! She calls his cell.

I think SM and TM were home in bed and SM did not pick up at first because he might not have been enjoying his "tests" as much as his wife. But TM demands he answer the second time and now the game is on.

I think TM may have taken a gun so they could restrain Heather "to watch." I don't think SM thought they were going to kill her? I don't think he even thought of this as a "crime." He thought this might finally get his life back to normal.

Remember how TM kept referring to Heather as being "crazy." She even fake-posted an apology to herself from SM apologizing for choosing a crazy person or the wrong person to get involved with? I thought that strange. But maybe Heather got out of her car...and "went crazy" and did not submit when TM tried to restrain her to "watch" the lovefest. She was either shot to death or beaten. It would have happened very quickly. Maybe Heather didn't even get into the car. TM just jumped out and it was over very fast. TM would have wanted to be the one to overpower her IMO.

In TM's mind, Heather needed punishing and should not have resisted.So TM feels that Heather died because she overreacted...was "crazy"....not TM's fault.

 

[intothedeep]

originally posted by Jillycat: I've also considered that Heather didn't drive her car to PTL and it was taken there to distract from what happened elsewhere. I don't know how I feel about that now. I neither fully embrace or fully reject that possibility. I do question some of the phone record and whether or not Heather was in control of her phone as late as 3:41, and I think there's a difference between calls coming from a particular phone, and calls coming from a particular person.

I'm STRONGLY in support of the four calls from PTL being made by one of the M's.

I think the 3:41am time is a HUGE point to consider.

This is the first scenario I've come up with considering all the official information without leaving huge gaps or including my own overly wild speculation:

Assuming the times LE gave at the bond hearing for the calls and video are absolutely correct...

LE states 3:41am is the last cell activity reported on Heather's cell phone. Other articles state 3:41am is the last ping activity/data transmitted to a cell tower.

This would mean the phone was turned off and/or the battery was removed at 3:41am. Right? Not just the last call attempted.

It seems safe to assume Heather did not turn off or remove the battery from HER OWN cell phone.

This would mean Heather's cell phone was IN THE HAND of one of the Moorers at 3:41am. The only way Heather could've been making that 3:41am call is if - in the span of less than 60 seconds - Heather exited her vehicle (why would she be standing out in the cold calling SM if she was alone at the landing?) and someone not only subdued her, but was able to grab the phone from her hands or locate it on the ground after a struggle or retrieve it from inside Heather's car - then have the immediate presence of mind to turn off the phone (one would think there'd be bigger concerns at that particular moment) all of this within less than 60 seconds - in addition to the time necessary to do whatever they've done to subdue Heather in the first place.

The black truck passed the second video location en route to PTL at 3:39am. That was still nearly a mile away.

In any scenario where the M's commit the kidnapping/murder after the black truck arrives (already a narrow window of time - 3 minutes), the timing of Heather's cell being disabled would mean the M's disabled the phone IMMEDIATELY upon arrival.

And that's assuming the black truck even made it from video surveillance point #2 to PTL by 3:41am. If both the M's were in the black truck, it would mean they somehow traveled a mile to PTF, exited their vehicle (or waited for Heather to exit hers and climb into the truck) subdued her, located her phone and turned it off...

ALL THIS within 91 - 130 seconds (low time is based on 81 seconds from video time stamp plus 10 seconds for the last cell call placed to SM's phone to connect/disconnect - high end estimate based on last possible time Heather's cell was considered active 3:41:59am).

I think 45seconds is the LEAST amount of travel time the black truck could've completed the trip (based on estimated MPH determined by time between video checkpoints #1 and #2). This leaves only 46 - 85 seconds to complete EVERYTHING mentioned above at PTL.

The scenario I have in mind is that one of the Moorers was calling the other from PTL using Heather's phone. The time Heather's phone would've been disabled coincides (IMO) with the time headlights from the black truck would've been visible. The other Moorer arrives so no need to keep the phone active at that point.

Whoever had use of the phone at PTL was calling frantically (4 calls in 3 minutes). I was having trouble working out why Heather would've been calling SM so frantically if she arrived before he did. It could make sense if she went to PTL in part, because she feared for HIS safety. To me, it makes better sense if Heather wasn't the one using the phone.

It fits in my mind that the M making the calls had already killed Heather (or at least incapacitated her) and had her phone/purse/keys in their possession. They turned the phone off as soon as they saw the headlights from the truck at PTL.

IMO they turned the phone off and removed the battery (and possibly the data card as well) then chucked the phone into the river (fitting with the dive at PTL just after the Moorer's arrest). This would mean one of the M's DID give information to police after the arrest. If it was Sidney, his defense may try to say he was controlled or coerced into participating. This kind of defense would fit with his attorney's comments about the handcuffs, cell phone locking, etc - painting him as a victim as well.

Back at PTL, they could've loaded Heather into the black truck and taken off (fitting with DNA in the black truck), returning later for the other vehicle. This makes sense to me. I think one or both of them would've gone back to check over the scene, possibly lock Heather's car then. There was certainly no time for any of that in the amount of time the black truck could've been at PTL.

We don't know what other vehicle activity is on video. Just because it wasn't shared at the bond hearing doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I find it highly unlikely LE found two video tapes en route from the Moorers to PTL and didn't find any en route from Heather's condo to PTL - a much longer route with larger roads. They must have HE on video either at her complex or en route to be so confident she drove herself to PTL, that she was alive when she reached PTL.

The first video en route from the Moorers to PTL was time stamped 3:36. The first call to SM's cell from PTL was 3:38am. So the black truck had already left the Moorer residence when the phone calls began.

If one of the Moorers was making those calls, they had to believe (or hope) the other Moorer had Sidney's phone.

Perhaps the first unanswered call by Heather from her condo to Sidney's phone spurred an already enraged TM to new heights?

Possibly SM had snuck back out after the IE with Tammy at Broadway or somehow managed to call Heather from the pay phone on the sly. Or, who knows, maybe TM was mad that SM hadn't succeeded in luring her out during the 1:35am call. At any rate, if that call was planned by TM, it didn't succeed. If it wasn't planned by TM, then SM got it away with making it somehow. Either way TM has her reason to be mad. SM failed or SM either went back out without her. Even in the scenario that TM leaves SM without a vehicle after an argument... she's still mad.

Was the next call Heather made from the condo the one in which TM unlocked SM's phone with explicit instructions/threats to tell Heather to meet him at PTL right away? There isn't enough time between call 1 and call 2 for TM to be sleeping or oblivious to the plans being made. She was dressed and ready to go just as SM was at the time Heather called SM's cell at the Moorer's home.
I think in TM's mind, the thing between SM and Heather would end that night one way or another.

This is just a random pondering...

According to the time line, Heather was likely still on the phone with SM's phone when she started toward PTL. At the very least, she took off for PTL immediately after the call.

What would Heather have done if SM said, "Tammy's pointing a gun at me right now. She's gonna blow my brains out if you don't agree to meet."

This is eerily similar to the text shared at the bond hearing from TM to Heather - if you don't contact me, your b#%ch will draw his last breath.

Would Heather have gone to PTL in that scenario? That would open up the possibility that Heather did speak to Tammy during that call, not Sidney. Not saying I believe that's necessarily what happened. Just wondering if it's something to consider.

After that call, either SM goes to PTL with the ultimatum from TM - "It's you or her. One of you won't live through tonight."
Or TM rushes off to PTL with SM not too far behind.

 

[stmarysmead]

Great post!

What time do you think Heather would have arrived at PTL? Do you believe TM had already have gotten there first if she were home when the second call came in to SM's cell?

 

[njgolden1120]

One of the cameras would have captured irrational driving, don't you think? If I'm being strangled, I'm kicking and flailing trying to escape. JMO

This keeps sticking in my head as well. Imo I think she was laying in wait in back seat pops up strangles or something they then haul as*. Supposedly this truck is new. Bought after they stopped communicating. So that would lead me to believe Heather had never been in this truck before that night. They still have the truck impounded as far as I know. So if they found something in that truck it would be hard to explain. My only problem with this is if the truck was new and Heather hadn't seen it would she just jump in. My only thought with that is it's late. She knows she's meeting him a truck pulls up who else could it be. Maybe he rolled the Window down real quick so she would know it's him. From there I'm at a loss....

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk

 

[Madeleine74]

I believe LE would be willing to negotiate a plea for information about the crime and Heather's location. But until discovery is complete, I don't think there's an incentive for anyone to talk, and LE knows that.

snipped for space.

great post!

Just one point of clarification: LE are not the ones who negotiate anything. It's always the solicitor/DA who determines the charges and negotiates any plea. LE just gathers the evidence and compiles it and hands it over to the DA's office. The DA determines if there's enough evidence to take a case further.

 

[jillycat]

snipped for space.

great post!

Just one point of clarification: LE are not the ones who negotiate anything. It's always the solicitor/DA who determines the charges and negotiates any plea. LE just gathers the evidence and compiles it and hands it over to the DA's office. The DA determines if there's enough evidence to take a case further.

Yes, I understand the difference between police and DA. Both are part of law enforcement and I'm referring to what police said about potential future pleas that would come after discovery. I assume discovery would not be a police function.

 

[jillycat]

I'm STRONGLY in support of the four calls from PTL being made by one of the M's.

I think the 3:41am time is a HUGE point to consider.

(snipped for reply)

I think you're correct that it's likely that the M's had her phone before 3:41. It's been speculated previously, before the rest of the facts about the phone log came out, that she lost control of her phone before it's final activity or ping. It's even been suggested that she might have lost it not long after the call to the roommate and/or the social media postings. Whatever the case, I think that what happened after the second contact between Heather and SM/TM, happened fast.

But Heather was afraid of TM. So, I can't see that she would think she could intervene at a dark landing if SM was in danger, or that she would risk trying.

At any rate, it has always seemed to me that LE had to do some squeezing to get Heather from her condo to PTL and murdered in such a tight timeline.

I wonder what other camera footage they have, if any. I'm sure they didn't reveal their entire hand at the bond hearing. I guess it's possible they have more info on Heather's movements than GPS coordinates.

I do think you make a good point in noting that the M's were ready to roll immediately upon Heather's call. Or that TM wasn't fast asleep.

All of this goes to the theory that there was a plan in the works.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Great post!

What time do you think Heather would have arrived at PTL? Do you believe TM had already have gotten there first if she were home when the second call came in to SM's cell?

There's an approx 3 min slot of arrival and disappearance.

 

[byo]

<gently snipped by me>

This would mean Heather's cell phone was IN THE HAND of one of the Moorers at 3:41am.

Thanks for the thought! I used it for my PTL theory.

1:35am: SM called Heather from a pay phone. His ruse: he's leaving TM, and he's "on foot". He tells Heather to meet him at PTL at 3:30am and she agrees. Later HE decides not to go, and tries to call SM. Her first calls go to a payphone number with no answer.

3:17am: Heather called SM's cell phone and spoke with someone for 4.15 minutes. Maybe she spoke with TM, and (as part of the ruse) TM says she's divorcing SM.

3:21am: Heather leaves from her apartment.
3:38-3:39am: Heather arrives at Peachtree Landing. SM is waiting for her. SM gets into her car; SM wants to use her phone. Heather gives him the phone, he switches it off.
The truck pulls into the parking lot, and parks on the passenger side of the car. SM gets out, and TM pulls HE across the seat. Some well placed duct tape, and a laundry bag, and they are on their way.

 

[intothedeep]

Great post!

What time do you think Heather would have arrived at PTL? Do you believe TM had already have gotten there first if she were home when the second call came in to SM's cell?

This was originally posted by OkeyGranny:

Phone data says she was at her apartment at 3:17 and at Peachtree Landing by 3:38. That's a difference of 21 minutes and the drive takes about 17 minutes. Not much leeway there.

Considering the fact that Heather had tried at least three times to reach SM on the pay phone and then connected on her second attempt to his cell phone, it sounds like she was pretty eager to see him.

We don't know if there were texts or if they somehow contacted each other through some kind of app or internet based source during the in-between call times.

Anyway, I think the 17 minute drive time (if that time came from a map/directions service) could've been shaved down due to the fact it was 3 o'clock in the morning. Plus, if Heather was that eager to see SM, she may not have observed the speed limit on the way to PTF.

If she left the condo as soon as she connected with SM's cell, and you allow the FULL 17 minutes, that would've put her at PTL at 3:34am.

If she left the condo after the call ended (3:21am) and you allow the FULL 17 minutes, that would've put her at PTL at 3:38am - the time of the first call from Heather's cell to SM's cell from PTL. Every minute shaved off this time by lack of traffic and Heather exceeding the speed limit would be a minute Heather was at PTL before the first cell call.

Since there is little or no time between the condo call to SM's cell phone and Heather's departure to PTL, I think this means Heather was ready to roll the second she connected with SM.

It was 3:17 in the morning and she took no time to get ready to go. Remember, she called SM. She'd been calling SM repeatedly at the pay phone and then his cell phone. She was VERY eager to hear from him. I don't believe the 3:17am call was the one that "lured" her out, per se. I think the hook had already been set during the 1:35am pay phone call. I think Heather was waiting to hear the "where" for their rendezvous. Again, she needed no time to primp or fuss over her appearance. She was out the door immediately, either as soon as she connected or immediately after disconnecting. We know for sure her phone was at PTL by 3:38am.

If she'd called with the express purpose to determine the meeting place, i see no reason she would've hung around the condo while chatting on the phone. She wasn't calling to chat (IMO).

I think she collected her things and was en route as soon as she connected at 3:17am. I think she had no traffic to contend with and probably sped to get there. It's simply hard to imagine Heather's multiple failed call attempts over the course of that past hour and then she just hangs out at the condo while chatting with SM. I think if this call had been to convince Heather to leave the condo or discuss their relationship, it would've lasted longer than 4 minutes.

I doubt SM told Heather he was at his home during the call.
He probably said he was already in his truck, maybe already at PTL (another reason for HE to be in a rush to get there).

In my mind, I see Heather connected with SM at 3:17am, grabbing her purse, keys and a jacket, turning off the TV/lights or whatever, locking the condo and getting into her car all while talking to SM. I think she would've ended the call as she got on the road with, " On my way, see you soon."

I think this puts her arrival time at PTF between 3:30 and 3:34am. If the red truck was parked at PTL when she arrived, I think she would've exited her car with no qualms, leaving 4-8 minutes before whichever M used Heather's phone to begin frantically calling the other M.

A 4-8 minute scenario where Heather willingly exits her vehicle is easier for me to believe than a 3-ish minute scenario in which both M's pull in driving the black truck, somehow get Heather out of her car (after she's just gotten no answer from 4 attempts to SM's cell), subdue Heather, locate her phone and turn it off all within approximately one minute (based on 3:41am end of cell activity for Heather's phone).

I think Heather got out of her own vehicle between 3:30 and 3:34am because she saw the red truck, not the black one at PTL.

The black one was purchased after the affair ended. According to a social media post (supposedly by SM), it was Tammy's "badass" ride.

If the murder took place outside the vehicles, then Heather was transported away from PTL in the black truck. This jibes with DNA in the black truck, not the red one.

One M would've been brought back at some point to retrieve the red truck, or possibly was left there at the scene to clean up and check Heather's car for anything that might implicate the M's.

This might also explain why one M might not now the exact location Heather's body was taken, especially if the other M had outside help hiding Heather's body.

What to do with Heather's body would've been one element of this twisted act that wouldn't have been as subject to circumstances as the act itself.

IMO Tammy would've had plenty of time to work out this angle before December 18th. I think she probably fixated on it, even if she hadn't fully committed to the act itself. For example: for weeks she could've been thinking, "If I did just kill Heather, what would I do with the body?"

When the time came on December 18th, Tammy could've simply carried out what she'd previously determined the best scenario for hiding Heather's body of all the methods she'd been obsessively fantasizing about for weeks.

IMO there was some significant event back on November 5th that ended communications so completely.

Also, if Tammy had no idea who Heather was on November 1st when she sent the threatening text to Heather (and she clearly didn't based on that text - only that the number belonged to someone Sidney was cheating with), then that means Tammy's obsession with Heather and her social media began AFTER Tammy learned her identity. So Tammy's rage would've only escalated as she fixated on Heather's online activity.

Also interesting to note Sidney had not given up Heather's identity to Tammy at the time of the November 1st text. He had clearly already been confronted. He must've cared for Heather. Why protect her November 1st, but not December 18th? Was Sidney defeated, incapable of stopping what happened at PTL?

 

[stmarysmead]

This was originally posted by OkeyGranny:


Considering the fact that Heather had tried at least three times to reach SM on the pay phone and then connected on her second attempt to his cell phone, it sounds like she was pretty eager to see him.

We don't know if there were texts or if they somehow contacted each other through some kind of app or internet based source during the in-between call times.

Anyway, I think the 17 minute drive time (if that time came from a map/directions service) could've been shaved down due to the fact it was 3 o'clock in the morning. Plus, if Heather was that eager to see SM, she may not have observed the speed limit on the way to PTF.

If she left the condo as soon as she connected with SM's cell, and you allow the FULL 17 minutes, that would've put her at PTL at 3:34am.

If she left the condo after the call ended (3:21am) and you allow the FULL 17 minutes, that would've put her at PTL at 3:38am - the time of the first call from Heather's cell to SM's cell from PTL. Every minute shaved off this time by lack of traffic and Heather exceeding the speed limit would be a minute Heather was at PTL before the first cell call.

Since there is little or no time between the condo call to SM's cell phone and Heather's departure to PTL, I think this means Heather was ready to roll the second she connected with SM.

It was 3:17 in the morning and she took no time to get ready to go. Remember, she called SM. She'd been calling SM repeatedly at the pay phone and then his cell phone. She was VERY eager to hear from him. I don't believe the 3:17am call was the one that "lured" her out, per se. I think the hook had already been set during the 1:35am pay phone call. I think Heather was waiting to hear the "where" for their rendezvous. Again, she needed no time to primp or fuss over her appearance. She was out the door immediately, either as soon as she connected or immediately after disconnecting. We know for sure her phone was at PTL by 3:38am.

If she'd called with the express purpose to determine the meeting place, i see no reason she would've hung around the condo while chatting on the phone. She wasn't calling to chat (IMO).

I think she collected her things and was en route as soon as she connected at 3:17am. I think she had no traffic to contend with and probably sped to get there. It's simply hard to imagine Heather's multiple failed call attempts over the course of that past hour and then she just hangs out at the condo while chatting with SM. I think if this call had been to convince Heather to leave the condo or discuss their relationship, it would've lasted longer than 4 minutes.

I doubt SM told Heather he was at his home during the call.
He probably said he was already in his truck, maybe already at PTL (another reason for HE to be in a rush to get there).

In my mind, I see Heather connected with SM at 3:17am, grabbing her purse, keys and a jacket, turning off the TV/lights or whatever, locking the condo and getting into her car all while talking to SM. I think she would've ended the call as she got on the road with, " On my way, see you soon."

I think this puts her arrival time at PTF between 3:30 and 3:34am. If the red truck was parked at PTL when she arrived, I think she would've exited her car with no qualms, leaving 4-8 minutes before whichever M used Heather's phone to begin frantically calling the other M.

A 4-8 minute scenario where Heather willingly exits her vehicle is easier for me to believe than a 3-ish minute scenario in which both M's pull in driving the black truck, somehow get Heather out of her car (after she's just gotten no answer from 4 attempts to SM's cell), subdue Heather, locate her phone and turn it off all within approximately one minute (based on 3:41am end of cell activity for Heather's phone).

I think Heather got out of her own vehicle between 3:30 and 3:34am because she saw the red truck, not the black one at PTL.

The black one was purchased after the affair ended. According to a social media post (supposedly by SM), it was Tammy's "badass" ride.

If the murder took place outside the vehicles, then Heather was transported away from PTL in the black truck. This jibes with DNA in the black truck, not the red one.

One M would've been brought back at some point to retrieve the red truck, or possibly was left there at the scene to clean up and check Heather's car for anything that might implicate the M's.

This might also explain why one M might not now the exact location Heather's body was taken, especially if the other M had outside help hiding Heather's body.

What to do with Heather's body would've been one element of this twisted act that wouldn't have been as subject to circumstances as the act itself.

IMO Tammy would've had plenty of time to work out this angle before December 18th. I think she probably fixated on it, even if she hadn't fully committed to the act itself. For example: for weeks she could've been thinking, "If I did just kill Heather, what would I do with the body?"

When the time came on December 18th, Tammy could've simply carried out what she'd previously determined the best scenario for hiding Heather's body of all the methods she'd been obsessively fantasizing about for weeks.

IMO there was some significant event back on November 5th that ended communications so completely.

Also, if Tammy had no idea who Heather was on November 1st when she sent the threatening text to Heather (and she clearly didn't based on that text - only that the number belonged to someone Sidney was cheating with), then that means Tammy's obsession with Heather and her social media began AFTER Tammy learned her identity. So Tammy's rage would've only escalated as she fixated on Heather's online activity.

Also interesting to note Sidney had not given up Heather's identity to Tammy at the time of the November 1st text. He had clearly already been confronted. He must've cared for Heather. Why protect her November 1st, but not December 18th? Was Sidney defeated, incapable of stopping what happened at PTL?

This makes so much sense! Thank you!

 

[CarmonCayman]

I posted this in the call thread but I think it applies here as well.

Could Heather have been calling Tammy when she called SMs cell.

Consider that Tammy had threatened Heather in Nov and Heather responded that Tammy had nothing to worry about.

Consider that someone, TM I beleive, told HE that SM no longer had a cell phone .

Consider we do not know of any contact between Heather and Sidney between that call and the pay phone call.

Consider we know it was SM on the pay phone since Heather told her roommate that (something SM and TM would not have anticipated but thank God she did)

HE could have been calling TM for a number of reasons. Possibly to verify what SM told her. Maybe to say she was done with SM and tell her about the call SM made. All among other possibilities.

Where I am going is that I believe Heather knew SM did not have a cell and that would have been reinforced by SMs call from a pay phone. It is possible HE called the cell to Specifically talk to TM.

I think it was supposed to be a set up with the pay phone call but when that didn't work they just went home. HE call to the cell have them another opportunity. But maybe HE thought she was meeting TM. I could see TM being quite the actress to get HE to meet her at PTL.

Just another possibility with the same sad ending.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ghostwheel]

***RSBM***

My point is that if LE didn't think it could make a murder charge stick, the M's wouldn't have been arrested and charged. Plea bargains flow from something having already stuck.

And I think if someone had already talked, we'd see a recovery effort somewhere.

BBM: I respectfully disagree and understand we have different understandings of how the justice system works, most likely based on our own interactions with cases and charges.

Regarding recovery effort, I do think it is possible that someone did talk, and due to the original location, the body is not likely to be found (for example from past cases: burned; put in any fast flowing river; dropped over the edge of a ravine or cliff and whomever did it cannot remember the location close enough to find the body-or the body has been moved by wildlife). I agree it is more likely that no one has talked, but can't rule out the possibility that there may be no way to recover the body.

 

[Madeleine74]

If one of the M's talked, LE would be doing massive searches to try and locate HE's body. They wouldn't just stop and wait for a credible tip to emerge. At this point they haven't done any more searches. They did one "recreation" exercise at PTL after initial searches and then nothing else. Doesn't sound like anyone talked at all.

 

[PPKik]

Does anyone know which side of PTL Heather's driver's side door was facing?

My understanding from what Terry said early on was that her car was parked parallel to the river.

I have seen many photos of the boat landing and maps where people think the car was parked by the memorial things people left, so I think I have a pretty good idea where the car was left.

But was Heather's car facing toward the trees putting the driver's side on the river side, away from approaching cars, or was she parked with the back end toward the trees and the driver's side facing in-coming cars?