Question: Submitting Potential Match in NAMUS

[ptandj]

I read through the tips threads and tried a few keyword searches, but apologies if I missed this information and it's already posted.

I am looking to submit a potential match between an unidentified person and a missing person, both in NAMUS. They have the same NAMUS case manager person listed for both.

Does it make sense to just email that person the information for the potential match? Or should I also be trying to contact the LE/ ME contact people?

I don't want to overdo it and I HATE talking on the phone so prefer the email route, but if it is right to contact LE/ ME people instead I can do it. I did already email the NAMUS person listed with the information that leads me to suggest the potential match using the suggestions I found here on WS.

 

[ptandj]

I asked the person I emailed at NamUs and here's the response I got on this:

It is up to you how you wish to relay your tip if you’d like to call the agencies directly or route an email through us. Often we have the biometrics available to make a comparison and then forward our comparison results along with the submitted tip email to the agencies for their files with a request to post exclusions or reply back that the person who submitted assisted with an identification. If we don’t have sufficient biometrics to compare we still forward tips on to all agencies involved for their review and possible biometric enhancement.

So it seems just submitting to NamUs is sufficient for it to get the appropriate attention.

 

[whatsnext]

I asked the person I emailed at NamUs and here's the response I got on this:



So it seems just submitting to NamUs is sufficient for it to get the appropriate attention.

Thank you for that information, I am also very interested in the unidentified and would like to help, but I find it difficult, so every info is highly appreciated!!

 

[ptandj]

Thank you for that information, I am also very interested in the unidentified and would like to help, but I find it difficult, so every info is highly appreciated!!

Have you created a NamUs account? You can then see exclusions for each person as well, which is helpful (e.g. who they know the person is NOT)

 

[whatsnext]

Have you created a NamUs account? You can then see exclusions for each person as well, which is helpful (e.g. who they know the person is NOT)

Not yet, but will do

 

[scotdeerie]

I have a question about NamUs for someone who might know: who enters the data into NamUs? Is that done by the local LE/ME or is the info forwarded to NamUs where it is entered?

 

[CCJD]

I have a question about NamUs for someone who might know: who enters the data into NamUs? Is that done by the local LE/ME or is the info forwarded to NamUs where it is entered?

LE/ME-Coroners enter the unidentified.

Anyone (you, me and everyone else) can enter a missing persons case.
NamUs staff will call investigators to validate the info entered by the general public.

 

[scotdeerie]

LE/ME-Coroners enter the unidentified.

Anyone (you, me and everyone else) can enter a missing persons case.
NamUs staff will call investigators to validate the info entered by the general public.

That's interesting, thanks. At one point I had talked to someone in the local ME office and they told me they didn't like using NamUs (which explains a lot of blanks in the info for this area!) because they had put in a case of bones being found and another case of a missing person and no one ever put them together. (Well, SOMEONE must have put them together but I guess he meant not through NamUs.) It was like he thought it was magic that the two pieces would be matched up. I was very early into this and even I realized that you have to work the cases to get the matches. In the one case I'm working on there are HUGE holes in UP/MP cases for this area and I *know* there is data that hasn't been entered. At one point there were 8 years without any significant data -- and that's insane for one of the suicide hot-spots of the world. I see some data trickling in finally. It's not much but at least someone is doing something, somewhere. I wish they'd let me do data entry for them. I'd get all those cold cases in the db for them!

 

[scotdeerie]

For those of you who have Word, I have a form I use for matching UP/MPs. Sometimes I submit the actual completed form to NamUs and sometimes I just keep them for myself while I'm working through cases. For NamUs, it just lays out all the pertinent data AND you can add photos to it with a simple copy and paste. I stole it from someone else (well, actually, they gifted it as a tool, too) and changed things around to how I liked them. You could do the same with a very simple knowledge of Word.

 

[scotdeerie]

For those of you who have Word, I have a form I use for matching UP/MPs. Sometimes I submit the actual completed form to NamUs and sometimes I just keep them for myself while I'm working through cases. For NamUs, it just lays out all the pertinent data AND you can add photos to it with a simple copy and past. I stole it from someone else (well, actually, they gifted it as a tool, too) and changed things around to how I liked them. You could do the same with a very simple knowledge of Word.

This is how one looks when being used.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

Thanks for all the good advice, scotdeerie!

I have a question, though, concerning potential matches across the databases. What do you do if you have for example one mp in NamUs that could potentially match an UID only listed in DoeNetwork (but not NamUs)? I know NamUs overrides DN, but how would you submit that potential match? Their respective submission forms are a bit confusing (and frustrating!) to me, I admit!

 

[CCJD]

Thanks for all the good advice, scotdeerie!

I have a question, though, concerning potential matches across the databases. What do you do if you have for example one mp in NamUs that could potentially match an UID only listed in DoeNetwork (but not NamUs)? I know NamUs overrides DN, but how would you submit that potential match? Their respective submission forms are a bit confusing (and frustrating!) to me, I admit!

NamUs has a form? I just send an email to the Regional Program Specialist.

Anyway, to send in your possible match:

You could send it in to NamUs, including all contact info as listed on Doe Network (LE/ME/Coroner). I would think that the NamUs RPS would (or should) contact the agency for the UID about the potential match and maybe convince that agency to enter the UID into NamUs at the same time.

Or you could send it in to Doe Network, keeping in mind that all possible matches have to go through their panel for review. If it gets the thumbs up by the panel, the Area Director(s) for both missing and UID send it in to the appropriate agencies.

Or you could submit the possible match yourself to the LE/ME/Coroner for both missing person and unidentified.

 

[eyeseestars]

Asking because I have a potential match on several factors (jewelry, location, etc.) but the age of my Doe is estimated to be 30-50 while the victim was actually 19. Even worth looking into or not? I'm not seeing dental records so I really don't know what the crime lab is going off of to date her age....that said, I presume they are pretty accurate?

 

[tnith]

Asking because I have a potential match on several factors (jewelry, location, etc.) but the age of my Doe is estimated to be 30-50 while the victim was actually 19. Even worth looking into or not? I'm not seeing dental records so I really don't know what the crime lab is going off of to date her age....that said, I presume they are pretty accurate?

I'd think determination of age would depend entirely on ME assessment of remains.

Am not very familiar with NAMUS but have frequently found discrepancies in ID factors and now err toward ruling a potential match In rather than Out.

 

[eyeseestars]

good to know, thanks!

 

[CCJD]

Biometric data (dentals, fingerprints, DNA) isn't publicaly viewable anymore on NamUs. What was the condition of your Doe - were the remains skeletal? Estimated age 30 to 50 is a pretty wide range. Also, did you check to see if the Doe has any rule-outs listed and if the 19 year old on the list?

 

[eyeseestars]

just found that she's been ruled out already. Good info regardless though, thanks for answering!

 

[AliceInPain]

just found that she's been ruled out already. Good info regardless though, thanks for answering!

There was actually a girl who was on HER OWN rule-out list a few years ago.

I can´t remember who or what made her being "ruled out," but if all factors but one or two add up I think it´s still worth pursuing.
Ask what made her being ruled out. Nothing but DNA is good enough, imo.

 

[Mrs. Badcrumble]

There was actually a girl who was on HER OWN rule-out list a few years ago.

I can´t remember who or what made her being "ruled out," but if all factors but one or two add up I think it´s still worth pursuing.
Ask what made her being ruled out. Nothing but DNA is good enough, imo.

I think the case you're thinking of is the Colleen Orsborn case. IIRC, she was ruled out being her own UID because the coroner failed to see the fracture in the UID's arm (?).

 

[AliceInPain]

I think the case you're thinking of is the Colleen Orsborn case. IIRC, she was ruled out being her own UID because the coroner failed to see the fracture in the UID's arm (?).

Thank you Mrs Badcrumble! I was in the Identified forum trying to figure out who she was!
I went to read her thread and Peggy Sue Houser is mentioned.
She was also ruled out at first as being her own unidentified remains because "the dental records showed that the victim had more teeth than Peggy."

And there is this from this article about Peggy:

Often, dental X-rays aren’t available to compare to unidentified remains, so comparisons are made with dental coding, a series of numbers assigned to each tooth that comprises a kind of numerical sketch of one’s teeth. But often, untrained personnel fill out forms and enter errors into databases.

I think I´ll stick to not trusting rule-out lists, unless based on data where human error can´t occur.