Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[UKGuy]

Why would PR need to ask "that he was wearing?" Surely she would know they were going to be asking about Christmas night and not about which pair he wasn't wearing. Which leads me to this- could they have had him change pj's and the ones he had on were put into a suitcase to be taken out of the house? Could they be some of the fibers that were found and not sourced?

Venom,
The change of pajamas would be forced on Burke.

The samsonite suitcase was probably used to carry all the stuff relating to JonBenet's death, then dumped in the basement?

The fibers were later judged to have arrived from forensic cross-transfer.

.

 

[Cottonstar]

Burke Ramsey wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

 

[UKGuy]

Burke Ramsey wore blue fuzzy pajamas on Christmas night.

Cottonstar,
Sure, this can be seen in the photograph taken of Burke and JonBenet opening their Christmas gifts.

The unknown and yet to be made public is the color of the fecally soiled pajama bottoms, are they Blue?

If so, I reckon the case is BDI.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Cottonstar,
Sure, this can be seen in the photograph taken of Burke and JonBenet opening their Christmas gifts.

The unknown and yet to be made public is the color of the fecally soiled pajama bottoms, are they Blue?

If so, I reckon the case is BDI.

.

UKGuy,
I wonder what this is:
(0241-19) THOMAS HANEY: So if we start off with photo number 1, can you just describe that and talk to us about that. PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this is JonBenet's bedroom and this is the door outside to outside little den. Her bathroom would have been back behind the door. This is the bed she was sleeping in. This is the second twin bed. THOMAS HANEY: Are there any other things in photo number 1 that you can identify, say on top of this trunk there is some blue clothing item. Light blue.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I wonder what this is:
(0241-19) THOMAS HANEY: So if we start off with photo number 1, can you just describe that and talk to us about that. PATSY RAMSEY: Well, this is JonBenet's bedroom and this is the door outside to outside little den. Her bathroom would have been back behind the door. This is the bed she was sleeping in. This is the second twin bed. THOMAS HANEY: Are there any other things in photo number 1 that you can identify, say on top of this trunk there is some blue clothing item. Light blue.

Rain on my Parade,
Would love to see that photo. From memory, this has been discussed before.

So I reckon the BDP detectives were onto those pajama bottoms:

1997 BPD Patsy Interview, Excerpt

TT: What was John wearing when you guys came downstairs that day? What kind of clothing was he wearing?

PR: His pajamas and his robe probably.

TT: Okay. What were you wearing that day?

PR: Pajamas and my robe.

TT: Didn’t get cleaned up or showered or anything like that?

PR: No, no, no, no, kids won’t let you do that.

TT: All righty. Um, what, what are the kids wearing?

PR: Pajamas.

TT: Okay. What kind of pajamas does Burke normally wear to bed?

PR: Oh, you know, cotton shirt and pants.

TT: Okay.

PR: knit kind of stuff.

TT: Okay. Do you remember what color of pajamas he was wearing that day?

PR: That he was wearing?

TT: Um hum.

PR: No, not exactly.

Check that question about the color of the pajamas!

So Patsy must know that BPD have latched onto Burke, but of course Patsy just plays dumb and develops Ramnesia.


.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Would love to see that photo. From memory, this has been discussed before.

So I reckon the BDP detectives were onto those pajama bottoms:

1997 BPD Patsy Interview, Excerpt

Check that question about the color of the pajamas!

So Patsy must know that BPD have latched onto Burke, but of course Patsy just plays dumb and develops Ramnesia.


.

UKGuy,
You can see the blue clothing item on JB trunk under media links #274.

The cops knew immediately that something was unusual almost from the moment they arrived at the house. In so saying, I don’t honestly understand why officer French failed to open the wine cellar door yet FW had no problem looking inside and saw nothing?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
You can see the blue clothing item on JB trunk under media links #274.

The cops knew immediately that something was unusual almost from the moment they arrived at the house. In so saying, I don’t honestly understand why officer French failed to open the wine cellar door yet FW had no problem looking inside and saw nothing?

Rain on my Parade,
Just one of those things with Officer French, he just missed it or did not rate it.

On the other hand Fleet White would have been the star witness at any trial. Him not observing JonBenet early that morning, then John with inferior eyesight recognizing her immediately, before switching the light on is patently inconsistent.

If you look at the wine-cellar crime-scene photo:

Even in a dimly lit setting you can see there would be enough contrast to make the White Blanket stand out.

I'll bet this is why Fleet White returned back to the wine-cellar despite being told not to, i.e. he wanted to see what was visible with no light on?

Although he has never publicly stated it, I reckon he thinks it was John who put JonBenet into the wine-cellar and that he killed JonBenet?

Folks should never forget we have a crime-scene witness in Fleet White!

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

If you look at the wine-cellar crime-scene photo:

Even in a dimly lit setting you can see there would be enough contrast to make the White Blanket stand out.

UKGuy,
This is not a dimly lite room. Also worth noting is there is a FAO package in this frame. If we compare the above photo to the one below we will discover BR partially opened gifts should be on the left side not on the bottom of this photo. So this proves there were other gifts in the wine cellar.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
This is not a dimly lite room. Also worth noting is there is a FAO package in this frame. If we compare the above photo to the one below we will discover BR partially opened gifts should be on the left side not on the bottom of this photo. So this proves there were other gifts in the wine cellar.
View attachment 268400

Rain on my Parade,

This is not a dimly lite room.

Sure, I agree. I was attempting to convey that there was enough ambient light for Fleet White to investigate further?

Did fleet White stick his head in, did he change his stance to gain perspective, did he notice an odd smell, e.g. urine on the carpet?

We do not know as his interview has been sealed until further developments.

So this proves there were other gifts in the wine cellar.

Yes, nicely observed, but were they there because they had been opened elsewhere in the basement or even JonBenet's bedroom?

The curious aspect to the Partially Opened Gifts is that John said Patsy never knew the gifts were in the wine-cellar, just him of course.

You have to wonder what Alex Hunter was hiding when he declined to file the True Bills with the court, this is compounded that if he thought he never had enough evidence to convict John or Patsy, he could file a No Bill which would have been self explanatory to everyone involved, yet he goes for the No File option?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The curious aspect to the Partially Opened Gifts is that John said Patsy never knew the gifts were in the wine-cellar, just him of course.

UKGuy,
But on the other hand Patsy said she herself opened those partially opened FAO gifts in the wine cellar. So, obviously we cannot go by what either of them said. I believe Patsy slipped up in this regard more then John. Although he did ask to get out of Dodge as soon as he retrieved Jonbenet from the basement and for his golf clubs in the dead of winter to play in Atlanta. Patsy said he didn’t play often and wasn’t that good at it. But then here we go again with the he said; she said.

You have to wonder what Alex Hunter was hiding when he declined to file the True Bills with the court, this is compounded that if he thought he never had enough evidence to convict John or Patsy, he could file a No Bill which would have been self explanatory to everyone involved, yet he goes for the No File option?

Curious indeed!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
But on the other hand Patsy said she herself opened those partially opened FAO gifts in the wine cellar. So, obviously we cannot go by what either of them said. I believe Patsy slipped up in this regard more then John. Although he did ask to get out of Dodge as soon as he retrieved Jonbenet from the basement and for his golf clubs in the dead of winter to play in Atlanta. Patsy said he didn’t play often and wasn’t that good at it. But then here we go again with the he said; she said.



Curious indeed!

Rain on my Parade,

But on the other hand Patsy said she herself opened those partially opened FAO gifts in the wine cellar.

Here is what Patsy says:
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth

14 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. It is hard to sort of
15 figure out where all of these pictures are taken, but
16 there is another package over here.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Does that look out of place or
19 in the proper place?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I had -- you know, I
21 stacked up some packages along there (inaudible).
22 Kicked (inaudible) or something. I kind of have it
23 backed up here.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. So the packages in 146,
25 it looks like it is out of place to you?
0392
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh. Yeah. See, that
2 looks -- the door would be here.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: It is hard.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: So that would be back in here
5 somewhere. I was right in front of the door.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: No. Here are the screens. You
7 see the screens over here, the small screens, so it is
8 more back in this.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I would tuck them
10 there.
11 TRIP DEMUTH: I guess the point is, there
12 wasn't one that was off by itself. They should have
13 all been together.
14 The location in picture 148 is the correct
15 place for all of the packages to have been?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
17 TOM HANEY: Before we go on, could we just
18 talk briefly about the packages, these were presents
19 for whom, the ones that were left in there?
0392
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe for, you know, I
21 held some back for Burke's birthday which is in
22 January.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
24 TOM HANEY: So that could have been that.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I don't remember what
0393
1 was in them.
2 TOM HANEY: Would any of these packages be
3 opened?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably. Well, see, these
5 came up, I was at FAO Schwartz in New York when
6 JonBenet and I were up there for a trip, and I had them
7 sent back to Boulder and they wrapped them, free gift
8 wrapping.
9 So like right here it looks like I kind of
10 peeled a little back to see what was in it because I
11 couldn't remember what was in them.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: If the wrapping has been undone
13 partially, that was --
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably would have done
15 that to peek to see what was in there.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
17 TOM HANEY: Where did you do the bulk of your
18 Christmas shopping, the items you put in there?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, all of this stuff right
20 here was from FAO Schwartz in New York. JonBenet got a
21 bicycle that year. I got a university bicycle, and she
22 got a twin doll which I mail ordered, and --
23 TOM HANEY: Did she get to ride her bike?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: She got to ride her bike.
25 TOM HANEY: Christmas day?

Here is what John says:
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane

20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch
21 of gifts at FAO Schwartz up in New York in early
22 December, some of which were for them were for
23 Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't
24 know they were in the closet exactly,

Check the dates, i.e. June 1998 and their version of events does not match.

The gifts were Patsy's responsibility not John's, so how would he be able to claim Patsy never knew they were in the wine-cellar, not unless he put them there, not necessarily before JonBenet was murdered!

For clarity: as you highlight some of the gifts were wrapped by FAO Schwartz in New York, in Kolar's book a photograph of the torn gifts shows they were wrapped by FAO Schwartz.

So either all the FAO Schwartz gift wrapped gifts were for Burke, or just a few?


Patsy's remarks about the golf clubs are I reckon is just small-talk, because nobody plays golf in December unless you are in a temperate time-zone.

BTW the above interview where John says Patsy never knew the gifts were in the wine-cellar is the same interview John talks Cuban Cigars and how he moved a chair to enter a room the alleged intruder escaped from.

IMO John is lying through his teeth.


On Alex Hunter he can only be hiding either John or Burke's involvement in JonBenet's death?

Cui bono: Does Alex Hunter benefit by fulfilling Colorado Statute as it applied to children beneath the age of criminal responsibility, or does it go deeper with some unknown connection to John Ramsey?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Here is what Patsy says:
June 1998 Patsy Ramsey Interrogation by Thomas Haney and Trip DeMuth


Here is what John says:
June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane


Check the dates, i.e. June 1998 and their version of events does not match.

The gifts were Patsy's responsibility not John's, so how would he be able to claim Patsy never knew they were in the wine-cellar, not unless he put them there, not necessarily before JonBenet was murdered!

For clarity: as you highlight some of the gifts were wrapped by FAO Schwartz in New York, in Kolar's book a photograph of the torn gifts shows they were wrapped by FAO Schwartz.

So either all the FAO Schwartz gift wrapped gifts were for Burke, or just a few?


Patsy's remarks about the golf clubs are I reckon is just small-talk, because nobody plays golf in December unless you are in a temperate time-zone.

BTW the above interview where John says Patsy never knew the gifts were in the wine-cellar is the same interview John talks Cuban Cigars and how he moved a chair to enter a room the alleged intruder escaped from.

IMO John is lying through his teeth.


On Alex Hunter he can only be hiding either John or Burke's involvement in JonBenet's death?

Cui bono: Does Alex Hunter benefit by fulfilling Colorado Statute as it applied to children beneath the age of criminal responsibility, or does it go deeper with some unknown connection to John Ramsey?

.

UKGuy,
Good catch on the interview date. I don’t know how many times John entered the wine cellar for nothing more then his Cuban cigars but I do know there was a tall white chair that was standing in the hallway leading to the wine cellar. You can view it under my post #275 under media links.
Personally I think they are both lying about the gifts.

Patsy’s remark about the golf club may appear small talk yet it was John that asked PP to retrieve them for him. He just lost his daughter. Why would he need his golf clubs in the dead of winter? Why would he care or think about them now?

In reference to your statement about Alex Hunter “can only be hiding either John or Burke’s involvement” did you actually mean for this to be a question?

And why does the “Cui bono” only pertain to John or Burke and not Patsy?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Good catch on the interview date. I don’t know how many times John entered the wine cellar for nothing more then his Cuban cigars but I do know there was a tall white chair that was standing in the hallway leading to the wine cellar. You can view it under my post #275 under media links.
Personally I think they are both lying about the gifts.

Patsy’s remark about the golf club may appear small talk yet it was John that asked PP to retrieve them for him. He just lost his daughter. Why would he need his golf clubs in the dead of winter? Why would he care or think about them now?

In reference to your statement about Alex Hunter “can only be hiding either John or Burke’s involvement” did you actually mean for this to be a question?

And why does the “Cui bono” only pertain to John or Burke and not Patsy?

Rain on my Parade,

Personally I think they are both lying about the gifts.

Yes, totally agree. The interview dates suggest they both had something to lie about, but had not concocted an agreed version of events?

Why would he need his golf clubs in the dead of winter? Why would he care or think about them now?

I meant Patsy's remarks were intended to deflect rather than open up a discussion on golf. PP definitely ran a Supermarket Sweep style run through the house scooping up invaluable forensic items.

Just in case you missed it: The new Supermarket Sweep airs Sunday nights at 8 p.m. ET on ABC.

In reference to your statement about Alex Hunter “can only be hiding either John or Burke’s involvement” did you actually mean for this to be a question?

Sure, its an open question, no JDI or PDI, have it factored into their theory, i.e. why does Hunter need to hide what he does when he has a nice legal procedure to hand, e.g. No Bill?

And why does the “Cui bono” only pertain to John or Burke and not Patsy?

I'm assuming an RDI theory and that JonBenet was acutely sexually assaulted by a male living in the house?

I accept it could be Patsy but that is as extreme as BDI is, yet I reckon Hunter's decision for No File might be a big clue as to what was really going on?

One of these days one or more of the jurors will tell us if John or Patsy faced First Degree Murder True Bills, a negative would partially solve the case and I doubt anyone would go after them.

 

[Peppery]

living in an Atlanta suburb, I can 100% confirm that playing golf in December weather is perfectly reasonable. I have many pics of my kids playing outside with their Christmas toys in tshirts and shorts. Most Dec/Jan days get into the 60s-70s, some years even hot enough to turn on the A/C.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

living in an Atlanta suburb, I can 100% confirm that playing golf in December weather is perfectly reasonable. I have many pics of my kids playing outside with their Christmas toys in tshirts and shorts. Most Dec/Jan days get into the 60s-70s, some years even hot enough to turn on the A/C.

Peppery,
Well there you have it. A perfect excuse to ask for your golf clubs when you just lost your 6 year old daughter.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I meant Patsy's remarks were intended to deflect rather than open up a discussion on golf. PP definitely ran a Supermarket Sweep style run through the house scooping up invaluable forensic items.

UKGuy,
She most certainly did. Why that was even allowed it way beyond me!

Sure, its an open question, no JDI or PDI, have it factored into their theory, i.e. why does Hunter need to hide what he does when he has a nice legal procedure to hand, e.g. No Bill?

I'm assuming an RDI theory and that JonBenet was acutely sexually assaulted by a male living in the house?

I accept it could be Patsy but that is as extreme as BDI is, yet I reckon Hunter's decision for No File might be a big clue as to what was really going on?

One of these days one or more of the jurors will tell us if John or Patsy faced First Degree Murder True Bills, a negative would partially solve the case and I doubt anyone would go after them.

I agree, Jonbenet had to have been abused in the home. It could have been any of the RDI. As you pointed out in a earlier post: It has been hinted that JB was in therapy and that her folks were aware of it. I guess this is a good of a place as any to mention I have also heard a juror in 2016 hinted that they knew who killed Jonbenet and it wasn’t either parent, but a child younger then 10 years old. Who knows, perhaps it was JR. If this is the case, once he passes would BR be able to speak his mind? I often wonder if he didn’t have a dose of electric shock therapy. He had Ramnesia just as bad as his folks.

I can’t help but wonder why a parent would cover for another one if they murdered their child unless they were both involved in whatever was going on behind closed doors. It’s possible. I hate to say it, but looking forward to what comes out when JR passes.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
She most certainly did. Why that was even allowed it way beyond me!




I agree, Jonbenet had to have been abused in the home. It could have been any of the RDI. As you pointed out in a earlier post: It has been hinted that JB was in therapy and that her folks were aware of it. I guess this is a good of a place as any to mention I have also heard a juror in 2016 hinted that they knew who killed Jonbenet and it wasn’t either parent, but a child younger then 10 years old. Who knows, perhaps it was JR. If this is the case, once he passes would BR be able to speak his mind? I often wonder if he didn’t have a dose of electric shock therapy. He had Ramnesia just as bad as his folks.

I can’t help but wonder why a parent would cover for another one if they murdered their child unless they were both involved in whatever was going on behind closed doors. It’s possible. I hate to say it, but looking forward to what comes out when JR passes.

Rain on my Parade,

It has been hinted that JB was in therapy and that her folks were aware of it.

Yes, although not confirmed as fact. I remember reading an interview where Patsy simply dropped, JonBenet being in therapy prior to her death, as an aside along with answering the question put to her.

But we all know how reliable memory is.

Yet this could be the situation described in the True Bills, particularly as the parents would have been advised what steps to take to minimise any danger to JonBenet?

This could be the basis for the Grand Jury deciding the parents did permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life?

The Grand Jury obviously needed clear criteria to reach such a result.

I guess this is a good of a place as any to mention I have also heard a juror in 2016 hinted that they knew who killed Jonbenet and it wasn’t either parent, but a child younger then 10 years old.

If neither parent faced Murder In The First Degree True Bills then that effectively solves the case as it removes the ambiguous terminology in Counts VII, IV, i.e. the person.

Who knows, perhaps it was JR. If this is the case, once he passes would BR be able to speak his mind?

if it was JR we will find out as specific snippets of evidence can rule certain theories out, its not as some believe obviously RDI or PDI, it might be more nuanced, with all three Ramsey's involved but to different degrees, but not all acting on the same night?

If the case is not BDI then I fully expect BR to do a Tell-All style interview once JR passes on, he cannot be expected to live under a lifelong suspicion that he killed JonBenet.

BR does not need to give us a blow by blow account, just enough to rule either Patsy or John in, e.g. where their version of events can be shown to be false.

.

 

[Peppery]

Peppery,
Well there you have it. A perfect excuse to ask for your golf clubs when you just lost your 6 year old daughter.

absolutely not! but in the absence of a dead 6 year old, planning to golf in Atlanta in December would be reasonable. nothing they did after 12/26/96 was reasonable imo.

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

David Rogers,
You Cannot Be Serious!


Of course they are available, all phone records are archived then after a period transferred to the relevant communications authority where they stored, usually for ever.

Same applies to internet records, even companies that go bankrupt have their records archived.

.

Cell phone records yes but not local land line histories (only long distance). This is from Steve Thomas' deposition:

1 But I think it's different because you have

2 to be up on the trap and trace to record

3 incoming/outgoing, also known as a pen

4 register. But a dump, whereas anything prior

5 -- I'm not explaining this well.

6 Q. Let me see if I can help. Was

7 there a mechanism in Boulder that would allow

8 you to go to the phone company and say I

9 want you to go back and tell me today on the

10 26th of December all outgoing and ingoing

11 calls to the Ramsey number for, say, the last

12 two or three days?

13 A. No.

14 Q. You had to do it forward, not

15 backward?

16 A. Right, I'm not familiar with any

17 -- the phone company here having any

18 capability to do that.

19 Q. Do you know for a fact that they

20 could not?

21 A. With the exception, and I don't

22 know how detailed you want to get into this,

23 but certainly toll calls, toll calls you can

24 certainly go back and retrieve.

25 Q. Long-distance toll calls?




1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Did you all do that with the

3 Ramsey records?

4 A. I think so.

 

[UKGuy]

Cell phone records yes but not local land line histories (only long distance). This is from Steve Thomas' deposition:

1 But I think it's different because you have

2 to be up on the trap and trace to record

3 incoming/outgoing, also known as a pen

4 register. But a dump, whereas anything prior

5 -- I'm not explaining this well.

6 Q. Let me see if I can help. Was

7 there a mechanism in Boulder that would allow

8 you to go to the phone company and say I

9 want you to go back and tell me today on the

10 26th of December all outgoing and ingoing

11 calls to the Ramsey number for, say, the last

12 two or three days?

13 A. No.

14 Q. You had to do it forward, not

15 backward?

16 A. Right, I'm not familiar with any

17 -- the phone company here having any

18 capability to do that.

19 Q. Do you know for a fact that they

20 could not?

21 A. With the exception, and I don't

22 know how detailed you want to get into this,

23 but certainly toll calls, toll calls you can

24 certainly go back and retrieve.

25 Q. Long-distance toll calls?




1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. Did you all do that with the

3 Ramsey records?

4 A. I think so.

WhereAreTheyNow,
All the above must pose the question why was Steve Thomas put in charge? So that is the local police requesting phone records, how about federal agencies such as the security snoops?

Do you know what happens to all the phone records if a phone company, land or mobile, analog or digital goes out of business?

Bottom line is this: all phone companies have to keep detailed logs of all calls made, minimally to bill their customers. So these records are archived and are available in perpetuity.

Tap and trace applies to analog phone lines, digital lines can be switched remotely.

Once a phone company ceases trading a copy of all phone subscriber metadata, incoming, outgoing records etc, are turned over to the relevant federal authority.

.