Questions you'd like answers to...

[icedtea4me]

Evidence? Ok, so we have coke cans in his sink.*snip*

Yeah, and? Are you saying that it would have been absolutely, positively 100% impossible for those cans to have been there from an earlier time, yes or no?

We have BR fingerprints on the bowl of pineapple and tea glass. The same bowl that his sister ate a piece of pineapple from.

Wrong. Burke's fingerprints are on a bowl which contained pineapple and a glass which contained a tea bag. Are you able to prove that he touched the bowl and glass after the pineapple and tea bag were placed in them, yes or no?

You have a nexus created between brother and sister, up after hours, close to the timeframe of JB death. So, somehow there is nothing to suggest that BR was not only involved with what happened, but was part of the cover-up(in some part)from the get go?*snip*

Are you saying that it would have been absolutely, positively 100% impossible for Burke to have snuck down to the 1st floor, played with/put together his toy, and to have been back in his bed prior to JonBenet being assaulted and murdered, yes or no?

 

[Tortoise]

T,
No where in BR’s first interview that took place Jan 8 1997, does he state that his mother came in his room going “psycho”. In fact, the narrative was at that stage, that BR was in his room sleeping. Sound asleep. It wasn’t until 18 months later in his interview with Detective Schuler, that he busted out his mom coming in his room that morning. To me, that’s careful and planted coaching. Kinda like, 18 months later JR revealed that he saw a strange car from JAR bedroom that he was looking at with his binoculars.

In all of Patsy’s interviews with police she says specifically she never went to Burke’s room that morning at all.


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I forgot to ask, have you heard the whole of BR's interview on Jan 8 1997?

 

[Cottonstar]

I forgot to ask, have you heard the whole of BR's interview on Jan 8 1997?

I can’t say for sure I have. I’ve seen or read most of it.




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[Tortoise]

Cottonstar,
You might be right, then those that believe what BR is saying might be right too, but both camps cannot be correct. Since Patsy contradicts BR's version of events.

We have been here before, e.g. Burke slept all night and never left his room, except the R's then reveal actually that's his voice on the 911 call, and he was awake, yikes !

Those that think BR is telling the truth have to demonstrate why Patsy says she never visited BR's room, and find a statement from the Policeman with the Flashlight corroborating what BR is saying, otherwise BR might be making it all up, since he knows full well Patsy cannot defend herself from beyond the grave.

.

He was 11 when he said it, and could have even said it before then but we haven't got the first interview transcripts. Do you think an 11 year old would lie to a policeman about what the police did in his house that morning? When they could easily say to him we know that's a lie?

btw, a few posts above yours, I have posted justification for PR distancing herself from having charged around his room saying where's my baby? She had to change her day 1 version from finding JBR was missing before finding the note, and it's clear to me she couldn't explain how it all went down. If she never in fact went down the stairs to find the note she didn't have a real memory to base any explanation on, and never thought any of what she didn't need to do she should have actually done because she would be required to retrace every step. I imagine her head that morning was totally concerned with making a convincing 911 call and convincing police that the kidnapping was real.

So if she checked BR's room first then shouted for JR, once he came into the mix and had given a version, how to change what she said she and JR did and what he said he and PR did becomes impossible for them. So she just stays by the spiral stairs in the laundry area and can't explain what she was doing while JR races around checking for JBR. The problem comes to light when BR doesn't say his dad ran around his room. If he'd been coached to follow the parents' narrative he wouldn't have clearly described PR's magnificent acting.

 

[Tortoise]

I can’t say for sure I have. I’ve seen or read most of it.




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Where can I find the transcription? I get the feeling I've missed an explanation for how you would have access to records, or are all the records now available and I don't know it?

 

[Tortoise]

Evidence?

Ok, so we have coke cans in his sink. We have BR staying up and JR trying to get him off to bed. We have BR getting up after everyone was “kinda in bed” and playing with a toy while everyone was asleep. We have BR fingerprints on the bowl of pineapple and tea glass. The same bowl that his sister ate a piece of pineapple from. You have a nexus created between brother and sister, up after hours, close to the timeframe of JB death. So, somehow there is nothing to suggest that BR was not only involved with what happened, but was part of the cover-up(in some part)from the get go?

BR go to your room and don’t come out until I come get you.....

That’s not indoctrination, that’s realization.


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1. coke cans in sink - undated evidence. More likely to be draining unfinished cans left over from the neighborhood kids playing in his room on Christmas Day.

2. BR staying up and going back downstairs thinking everyone was probably in bed - untimed evidence - explained in previous post by JR attending to a catastrophe in JBR's bedroom at around 10pm.

3. BR fingerprints on bowl of pineapple and tea glass - untimed evidence, easily explained from time of arrival home when JBR also ate pineapple, before her head injury. Parents never asked to account for it by the time the autopsy results came out with evidence of sexual abuse, and then she transformed from a walking child who had been read to, to being asleep in the car.

4. the same bowl his sister ate from - that's a stretch. JBR could have taken a piece from his bowl, or indeed had her own bowl and put it in the kitchen or a dishwasher if there was one, to be washed up along with everything else by the victim advocates. Did you notice taking her plate to the kitchen was on her tick list of chores?

5. JBR up after hours. No evidence JBR was downstairs when BR was.

6. BR involved with the cover up from the get go - hmm, I imagine his parents really didn't want him coming out of his room and looking for JBR. I wonder why the latch was engaged on the wine cellar door. Even a kid could work out she couldn't be hiding in there if the door was latched from the outside, but they did want police to find her right? That was a tough decision they had to make, to latch the door or not. And then it had already been noted by the time BR was shipped out.

Sorry, that list wouldn't convince a jury.

Am I allowed to ask if you are JK?

 

[Cottonstar]

He was 11 when he said it, and could have even said it before then but we haven't got the first interview transcripts. Do you think an 11 year old would lie to a policeman about what the police did in his house that morning? When they could easily say to him we know that's a lie?

btw, a few posts above yours, I have posted justification for PR distancing herself from having charged around his room saying where's my baby? She had to change her day 1 version from finding JBR was missing before finding the note, and it's clear to me she couldn't explain how it all went down. If she never in fact went down the stairs to find the note she didn't have a real memory to base any explanation on, and never thought any of what she didn't need to do she should have actually done because she would be required to retrace every step. I imagine her head that morning was totally concerned with making a convincing 911 call and convincing police that the kidnapping was real.

So if she checked BR's room first then shouted for JR, once he came into the mix and had given a version, how to change what she said she and JR did and what he said he and PR did becomes impossible for them. So she just stays by the spiral stairs in the laundry area and can't explain what she was doing while JR races around checking for JBR. The problem comes to light when BR doesn't say his dad ran around his room. If he'd been coached to follow the parents' narrative he wouldn't have clearly described PR's magnificent acting.

I’m not understanding T, when you say if she checked BR’s room first then shouted for JR?

Are you talking hypothetically? Or as if this happened?
Are you of the belief that JR wasn’t involved until he heard PR scream for him?

JR and PR had 125 days from the murder to their first interview. They had access to all their previous statements and such. They were well rehearsed in what they were going to say and had their stories as straight as they could be going into that interview.

PR then goes on to tell the police in the interview that, not only did she never step foot in JonBenét’s room, she also never checked or stepped foot in Burke’s room. She said this more than once.

The next year in 1998, she goes on to say the same thing. She never checked on Burke the whole morning.

Fast forward to 1999, after they were “not indicted” and Hunter failed to file charges, the Ramsey’s got to show boat with their book DOI. They knew that the GJ proceedings were sealed, and at the time, probably thought that none of their interviews with the police would be made public. So in DOI, they flat out lied, and said that they both went to check on Burke together that morning after finding the note.

Treachery


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[Tortoise]

I’m not understanding T, when you say if she checked BR’s room first then shouted for JR?

Are you talking hypothetically? Or as if this happened?
Are you of the belief that JR wasn’t involved until he heard PR scream for him?

JR and PR had 125 days from the murder to their first interview. They had access to all their previous statements and such. They were well rehearsed in what they were going to say and had their stories as straight as they could be going into that interview.

PR then goes on to tell the police in the interview that, not only did she never step foot in JonBenét’s room, she also never checked or stepped foot in Burke’s room. She said this more than once.

The next year in 1998, she goes on to say the same thing. She never checked on Burke the whole morning.

Fast forward to 1999, after they were “not indicted” and Hunter failed to file charges, the Ramsey’s got to show boat with their book DOI. They knew that the GJ proceedings were sealed, and at the time, probably thought that none of their interviews with the police would be made public. So in DOI, they flat out lied, and said that they both went to check on Burke together that morning after finding the note.

Treachery


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What I mean is, assuming BR is not lying about PR going into his room, if she never set foot down the spiral stairs at all to find the note (I think we can agree that she didn't bother wasting her time with no witnesses around, right I'll just go down and find the note now and come back up even though there is no one here to see me doing it) it means the only thing she did do was go straight to BR's room.

JR was definitely involved and PR shouting to him was to fool BR, same as checking BR's room was. She could have shouted to JR before or after makes no difference, I don't put any store by what she said in her later interviews. She was checking JBR's jumpsuit for spots, packing a plastic bag that she never could locate, going to make coffee, hovering at the mid level of the spiral staircase, doing anything but handling the note, it was all a farce.

If PR had said she was checking to make sure BR was alive and well and not also kidnapped that would have been explainable, but she didn't, she went in there looking for JBR 'where's my baby?' - why if she had found the note, and why if she had not yet found the note? It was easier to just drop it from the version completely.

 

[Cottonstar]

1. coke cans in sink - undated evidence. More likely to be draining unfinished cans left over from the neighborhood kids playing in his room on Christmas Day.

2. BR staying up and going back downstairs thinking everyone was probably in bed - untimed evidence - explained in previous post by JR attending to a catastrophe in JBR's bedroom at around 10pm.

3. BR fingerprints on bowl of pineapple and tea glass - untimed evidence, easily explained from time of arrival home when JBR also ate pineapple, before her head injury. Parents never asked to account for it by the time the autopsy results came out with evidence of sexual abuse, and then she transformed from a walking child who had been read to, to being asleep in the car.

4. the same bowl his sister ate from - that's a stretch. JBR could have taken a piece from his bowl, or indeed had her own bowl and put it in the kitchen or a dishwasher if there was one, to be washed up along with everything else by the victim advocates. Did you notice taking her plate to the kitchen was on her tick list of chores?

5. JBR up after hours. No evidence JBR was downstairs when BR was.

6. BR involved with the cover up from the get go - hmm, I imagine his parents really didn't want him coming out of his room and looking for JBR. I wonder why the latch was engaged on the wine cellar door. Even a kid could work out she couldn't be hiding in there if the door was latched from the outside, but they did want police to find her right? That was a tough decision they had to make, to latch the door or not. And then it had already been noted by the time BR was shipped out.

Sorry, that list wouldn't convince a jury.

Am I allowed to ask if you are JK?

1. The two coke cans in the sink covering the drain. The problem is not when they were out there. I’m saying if BR brushed his teeth that night and did his business in the sink, spitting, rinsing, etc, the coke cans wouldn’t just be laying there in the middle of the sink. That’s what I’m trying to portray.


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[Tortoise]

1. The two coke cans in the sink covering the drain. The problem is not when they were out there. I’m saying if BR brushed his teeth that night and did his business in the sink, spitting, rinsing, etc, the coke cans wouldn’t just be laying there in the middle of the sink. That’s what I’m trying to portray.


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To be over the drain they weren't fully consumed.

Why would BR open a second can if he hadn't finished the first?
You don't think it was kids there with half finished cans from Christmas Day?
What makes you think they were in the sink from before he brushed his teeth either the night before or that morning?

Someone was fussing around making BR's bed while he was getting dressed. What is so strange about FW making the bed, seeing half empty coke cans sitting on the side and draining them in the sink, intending that someone who lives there can put them in the bin once they've drained or intending to do it himself but getting sidetracked by the goings on in the house and having to leave?

It's really proof of nothing, and especially not proof that BR was awake all night or didn't brush his teeth.

 

[Cottonstar]

To be over the drain they weren't fully consumed.

Why would BR open a second can if he hadn't finished the first?
You don't think it was kids there with half finished cans from Christmas Day?
What makes you think they were in the sink from before he brushed his teeth either the night before or that morning?

Someone was fussing around making BR's bed while he was getting dressed. What is so strange about FW making the bed, seeing half empty coke cans sitting on the side and draining them in the sink, intending that someone who lives there can put them in the bin once they've drained or intending to do it himself but getting sidetracked by the goings on in the house and having to leave?

It's really proof of nothing, and especially not proof that BR was awake all night or didn't brush his teeth.

I’ll give you that much. Anyone of those things by itself isn’t much. But, you take all of those things I said about being up and awake that night and having a nexus of contact with JB, which is real circumstantial evidence, you can’t just say well, but, well, but. There is solid circumstantial evidence that BR and JBR were up together after they returned home, and close to her time of death.


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[Cottonstar]

What I mean is, assuming BR is not lying about PR going into his room, if she never set foot down the spiral stairs at all to find the note (I think we can agree that she didn't bother wasting her time with no witnesses around, right I'll just go down and find the note now and come back up even though there is no one here to see me doing it) it means the only thing she did do was go straight to BR's room.

JR was definitely involved and PR shouting to him was to fool BR, same as checking BR's room was. She could have shouted to JR before or after makes no difference, I don't put any store by what she said in her later interviews. She was checking JBR's jumpsuit for spots, packing a plastic bag that she never could locate, going to make coffee, hovering at the mid level of the spiral staircase, doing anything but handling the note, it was all a farce.

If PR had said she was checking to make sure BR was alive and well and not also kidnapped that would have been explainable, but she didn't, she went in there looking for JBR 'where's my baby?' - why if she had found the note, and why if she had not yet found the note? It was easier to just drop it from the version completely.

I agree with you about putting a ruse on BR.


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[Cottonstar]

Where can I find the transcription? I get the feeling I've missed an explanation for how you would have access to records, or are all the records now available and I don't know it?

I’m not sure. I’ll have to look what I have .


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[Tortoise]

I’ll give you that much. Anyone of those things by itself isn’t much. But, you take all of those things I said about being up and awake that night and having a nexus of contact with JB, which is real circumstantial evidence, you can’t just say well, but, well, but. There is solid circumstantial evidence that BR and JBR were up together after they returned home, and close to her time of death.


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There is nothing amongst that evidence that proves BR didn't go to bed that night or had contact with JBR after she went to bed, so combining it has no greater effect.

 

[Cottonstar]

There is nothing amongst that evidence that proves BR didn't go to bed that night or had contact with JBR after she went to bed, so combining it has no greater effect.

Ok. That’s how you see it.


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[Cottonstar]

There is nothing amongst that evidence that proves BR didn't go to bed that night or had contact with JBR after she went to bed, so combining it has no greater effect.

There is zero evidence that he went to bed that night.


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[Tortoise]

There is zero evidence that he went to bed that night.


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I disagree.

If BR didn't go to bed that night, it means that at 6 am on December 26th he had been awake for 24 hours at least. He then went and grabbed his Nintendo at 7 am and was whisked off to the White's. There are no reports of him falling asleep or going to bed at the White's and Patterson went to speak with him at 3 pm, at which point he would have been awake for 33 hours.

I don't know about your experience with children but I do know that for my son's 9th birthday he had a camp over in our garden with a friend. They stayed awake all night. His friend went home after breakfast and a short while later I found my son sitting on a wooden upright chair in front of our computer, in a deep sleep, with his head nodding about. I carried him upstairs without him waking up and laid him in his bed. He woke up at about 5 pm completely disorientated, not knowing how he'd got to bed, and thinking it was the next morning. Other experiences I have of the kids at all ages not sleeping properly (not awake the whole night though) when they've been away at camp, they are non-talkative, argumentative and generally unbearable. In BR's case there was no mention from anyone of signs on 26th that he hadn't slept since rising early on Christmas morning, and I think that is probably quite a reliable indicator. Particularly given all he was supposed to have done if the case was BDI.

Then there are other indications he had gone to bed, the pajamas he was presumably wearing and the fact he was in bed, a neighbor who noticed the corner lamp was off and would probably have noticed if his bedroom light was on. If they were all up why was the house in darkness? Doesn't it seem more likely that if they were all up there would have been some lights on, but if BR wasn't up or involved at all the parents would not want to put the lights on in case he woke up and wandered into their murder scene?

 

[Cottonstar]

I disagree.

If BR didn't go to bed that night, it means that at 6 am on December 26th he had been awake for 24 hours at least. He then went and grabbed his Nintendo at 7 am and was whisked off to the White's. There are no reports of him falling asleep or going to bed at the White's and Patterson went to speak with him at 3 pm, at which point he would have been awake for 33 hours.

I don't know about your experience with children but I do know that for my son's 9th birthday he had a camp over in our garden with a friend. They stayed awake all night. His friend went home after breakfast and a short while later I found my son sitting on a wooden upright chair in front of our computer, in a deep sleep, with his head nodding about. I carried him upstairs without him waking up and laid him in his bed. He woke up at about 5 pm completely disorientated, not knowing how he'd got to bed, and thinking it was the next morning. Other experiences I have of the kids at all ages not sleeping properly (not awake the whole night though) when they've been away at camp, they are non-talkative, argumentative and generally unbearable. In BR's case there was no mention from anyone of signs on 26th that he hadn't slept since rising early on Christmas morning, and I think that is probably quite a reliable indicator. Particularly given all he was supposed to have done if the case was BDI.

Then there are other indications he had gone to bed, the pajamas he was presumably wearing and the fact he was in bed, a neighbor who noticed the corner lamp was off and would probably have noticed if his bedroom light was on. If they were all up why was the house in darkness? Doesn't it seem more likely that if they were all up there would have been some lights on, but if BR wasn't up or involved at all the parents would not want to put the lights on in case he woke up and wandered into their murder scene?

Trauma, shock, adrenaline. It’s the same reason why Patsy was up the whole day and night and the next day again without sleeping. I once stayed awake for close to 96 hours straight when we invaded Iraq. There is no proof Burke or anyone else for that matter went to bed that night. The reason why there were no lights on in the house, sans for the flashes of light seen by Gibbons, is the same for any RDI. Hence, the flashlight.


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[Cottonstar]

I’m not sure. I’ll have to look what I have .


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I do not have the full transcript. I do however have access to over 25+ videos of the interview.


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[archieil]

I do not have the full transcript. I do however have access to over 25+ videos of the interview.

https://www.gamespot.com/forums/offtopic-discussion-314159273/few-hours-sleep-vs-no-sleep-26405494/

I was trying to search an information for people wanting to beat gaming records. I have seen an article with information regarding sleep tactic for them. not this time.

In a stressful situation, 2-3 hours of sleep could result in 2 days of full energy boy.