Questions you'd like answers to...

[Tortoise]

Trauma, shock, adrenaline. It’s the same reason why Patsy was up the whole day and night and the next day again without sleeping. I once stayed awake for close to 96 hours straight when we invaded Iraq. There is no proof Burke or anyone else for that matter went to bed that night. The reason why there were no lights on in the house, sans for the flashes of light seen by Gibbons, is the same for any RDI. Hence, the flashlight.


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Yes people can stay awake when they have to. Although that's not to say there wouldn't be outward signs of sleep deprivation, or that they would function optimally. It would have been a little unusual if PR and JR had fallen asleep during the apparent kidnapping phase of their daughter. Maybe they did look excessively tired or pale, and that could have been put down to stress and exhaustion. PR was lying down on the couch for a while I believe. She had make up on and could have taken a 'helper'.

There were no such constraints on BR, he didn't have to stay awake, didn't have to play, and there are no reports that he looked or behaved as if he were sleep deprived or traumatized. I think Patterson might have noticed if BR looked like he hadn't slept for 33 hours+, it's so obvious when children are tired and grumpy.

I was actually very touched to come across this snippet yesterday from BR's interview with Schuler, about going to meet his parents that afternoon:

“I thought JonBenét was gonna be there, I thought they found her,” he told the detective. “I came in excited … almost relieved … then my dad [John Ramsey] told me that JonBenét was in heaven.”
http://people.com/crime/jonbenet-ramseys-brother-burkes-1998-police-interview-is-released/

I used to think the lights were kept off in the house for the purposes of hiding their activities from the neighbours, until I worked out this was the work of JR and PR. That is when it became obvious to me that their biggest fear was disturbing BR and him getting up and walking in on it all. I don't think they stopped to think what if the neighbours see what we're doing. When I see my neighbour's houses with lights on across the street I only notice the fact it is lit up not the people or activity inside, writing ransom notes, eating, carrying things around or whatever, I suppose I might if I had binoculars or I was that intent on watching for long enough. They could have put the lights on, drawn a curtain, and if a neighbour noticed said the intruder must have done it.

 

[UKGuy]

Yes people can stay awake when they have to. Although that's not to say there wouldn't be outward signs of sleep deprivation, or that they would function optimally. It would have been a little unusual if PR and JR had fallen asleep during the apparent kidnapping phase of their daughter. Maybe they did look excessively tired or pale, and that could have been put down to stress and exhaustion. PR was lying down on the couch for a while I believe. She had make up on and could have taken a 'helper'.

There were no such constraints on BR, he didn't have to stay awake, didn't have to play, and there are no reports that he looked or behaved as if he were sleep deprived or traumatized. I think Patterson might have noticed if BR looked like he hadn't slept for 33 hours+, it's so obvious when children are tired and grumpy.

I was actually very touched to come across this snippet yesterday from BR's interview with Schuler, about going to meet his parents that afternoon:




I used to think the lights were kept off in the house for the purposes of hiding their activities from the neighbours, until I worked out this was the work of JR and PR. That is when it became obvious to me that their biggest fear was disturbing BR and him getting up and walking in on it all. I don't think they stopped to think what if the neighbours see what we're doing. When I see my neighbour's houses with lights on across the street I only notice the fact it is lit up not the people or activity inside, writing ransom notes, eating, carrying things around or whatever, I suppose I might if I had binoculars or I was that intent on watching for long enough. They could have put the lights on, drawn a curtain, and if a neighbour noticed said the intruder must have done it.

Tortoise,

I used to think the lights were kept off in the house for the purposes of hiding their activities from the neighbours, until I worked out this was the work of JR and PR. That is when it became obvious to me that their biggest fear was disturbing BR and him getting up and walking in on it all.

Just see what thinking did for you , LOL .

For your consideration and delectation:

THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER
April 3, 2001

RAMSEYS CHANGE THEIR STORY ABOUT MURDER NIGHT

By David Wright & Don Gentile

"John and Patsy Ramsey have changed the story they told cops about their daughter JonBenet's murder -- they now admit their son Burke was awake during that Christmas 1996 nightmare!

In an exclusive ENQUIRER interview, the nation's most infamous murder suspects say Burke was jolted awake by screams in their Boulder, Colo. home.

"Burke knew something horrible had happened. He heard us screaming. He heard Patsy ...a woman in terror," John confessed. "We thought he was asleep but he wasn't. Burke was awake.

"Burke was frightened. He had tears in his eyes. He knew something very, very wrong was going on."

Until being questioned by The ENQUIRER, the Ramseys had always insisted that Burke was still sleeping when police arrived at their home after Patsy's 911 call.

But now John has admitted to The ENQUIRER that Burke woke up before the 911 call was placed at 5:52 a.m. to summon police.

The evidence is before your eyes, don't bother with quantum theory, or strenuous thought since the JonBenet case can impair your ability to reason.

BR was awake prior to the 911 call, his parents say so !

.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise,

Just see what thinking did for you , LOL .

For your consideration and delectation:


The evidence is before your eyes, don't bother with quantum theory, or strenuous thought since the JonBenet case can impair your ability to reason.

BR was awake prior to the 911 call, his parents say so !

.

Doh! I know he was awake in the morning, that much is clear from my posts. What kid is gonna sleep through his mum putting the lights on and going "psycho" in his room. We've been discussing him being awake all night.

 

[Certon]

Are you kidding about the quantum theory? Who can refuse it?

 

[Cottonstar]

Yes people can stay awake when they have to. Although that's not to say there wouldn't be outward signs of sleep deprivation, or that they would function optimally. It would have been a little unusual if PR and JR had fallen asleep during the apparent kidnapping phase of their daughter. Maybe they did look excessively tired or pale, and that could have been put down to stress and exhaustion. PR was lying down on the couch for a while I believe. She had make up on and could have taken a 'helper'.

There were no such constraints on BR, he didn't have to stay awake, didn't have to play, and there are no reports that he looked or behaved as if he were sleep deprived or traumatized. I think Patterson might have noticed if BR looked like he hadn't slept for 33 hours+, it's so obvious when children are tired and grumpy.

I was actually very touched to come across this snippet yesterday from BR's interview with Schuler, about going to meet his parents that afternoon:




I used to think the lights were kept off in the house for the purposes of hiding their activities from the neighbours, until I worked out this was the work of JR and PR. That is when it became obvious to me that their biggest fear was disturbing BR and him getting up and walking in on it all. I don't think they stopped to think what if the neighbours see what we're doing. When I see my neighbour's houses with lights on across the street I only notice the fact it is lit up not the people or activity inside, writing ransom notes, eating, carrying things around or whatever, I suppose I might if I had binoculars or I was that intent on watching for long enough. They could have put the lights on, drawn a curtain, and if a neighbour noticed said the intruder must have done it.

You were touched?
You were bamboozled?


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[Tortoise]

You were touched?
You were bamboozled?


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haha,

Remember 6 x 0 evidence is always gonna = 0 evidence.

ouch! I've even shocked myself, must learn to be kinder in 2018

 

[Cottonstar]

haha,

Remember 6 x 0 evidence is always gonna = 0 evidence.

ouch! I've even shocked myself, must learn to be kinder in 2018

Circumstantial evidence is evidence.


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[Cottonstar]

Yes people can stay awake when they have to. Although that's not to say there wouldn't be outward signs of sleep deprivation, or that they would function optimally. It would have been a little unusual if PR and JR had fallen asleep during the apparent kidnapping phase of their daughter. Maybe they did look excessively tired or pale, and that could have been put down to stress and exhaustion. PR was lying down on the couch for a while I believe. She had make up on and could have taken a 'helper'.

There were no such constraints on BR, he didn't have to stay awake, didn't have to play, and there are no reports that he looked or behaved as if he were sleep deprived or traumatized. I think Patterson might have noticed if BR looked like he hadn't slept for 33 hours+, it's so obvious when children are tired and grumpy.

I was actually very touched to come across this snippet yesterday from BR's interview with Schuler, about going to meet his parents that afternoon:




I used to think the lights were kept off in the house for the purposes of hiding their activities from the neighbours, until I worked out this was the work of JR and PR. That is when it became obvious to me that their biggest fear was disturbing BR and him getting up and walking in on it all. I don't think they stopped to think what if the neighbours see what we're doing. When I see my neighbour's houses with lights on across the street I only notice the fact it is lit up not the people or activity inside, writing ransom notes, eating, carrying things around or whatever, I suppose I might if I had binoculars or I was that intent on watching for long enough. They could have put the lights on, drawn a curtain, and if a neighbour noticed said the intruder must have done it.

But wait....ummmmm...

It was John who told Burke, that JonBenét was in heaven?

In Death of Innocence, John tells the story a little differently. John doesn't tell Burke, JonBenet is in heaven, Patsy does. According to John "Patsy tearfully put her arm around(Burke)", and told him JonBenet was in
heaven. According to John, Burke then "hugged Patsy and acknowledged her words with a nod of his head, and then went downstairs to the downstairs playroom.."

How touching


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[Tortoise]

But wait....ummmmm...

It was John who told Burke, that JonBenét was in heaven?

In Death of Innocence, John tells the story a little differently. John doesn't tell Burke, JonBenet is in heaven, Patsy does. According to John "Patsy tearfully put her arm around(Burke)", and told him JonBenet was in
heaven. According to John, Burke then "hugged Patsy and acknowledged her words with a nod of his head, and then went downstairs to the downstairs playroom.."

How touching


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How can you tell when JR is lying...his mouth is moving.

 

[Cottonstar]

How can you tell when JR is lying...his mouth is moving.

Right, but BR doesn’t.


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[Tortoise]

Right, but BR doesn’t.


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Can you think of a reason he would have said his dad told him if it was really his mum?

Did he just think, haha this'll fool them, they'll never be able to work out it was really her who said it!

 

[Tadpole12]

BR's 'truth' and PR's statements, are they necessarily correlated?
PR's statements were designed with ample coaching,
to distance herself from locations.

 

[Cottonstar]

Can you think of a reason he would have said his dad told him if it was really his mum?

Did he just think, haha this'll fool them, they'll never be able to work out it was really her who said it!

How about it never happened. Do you think BR is completely innocent in this whole thing?


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[Tadpole12]

Maybe she didn't. But he would have heard all the rest.

I tend to think she probably did though. He gave what appeared to be a memory-based account of his thoughts and feelings, and I think liars are prone to stumbling over details, not knowing that they will be asked about details like feelings.

I believe PR seriously got her knickers in a twist that morning when she gave her first version to police;

she
a/ checked in on JBR first thing on her way down
b/ continued on down the spiral stairs
c/ found the note
d/ 'bounded' back up the spiral stairs
e/ hollered for JR.

Now it seems quite obvious to me that she didn't do b/, c/, or d/. She didn't need to go down to find the note because there was no one there to see her do it and make it worth her while, the note was probably already laid out on the floor sans fingerprints during the night.

I surmise she pushed open JBR's door, shouted to JR and then continued her "psycho" charade of 'where's my baby' as she flew in and out of BR's room, desperate to get on and make her 911 call.

But whether she had continued on down the stairs or checked BR's room in the manner she did would have raised questions -

1/ why go about her business to make coffee if JBR was missing from her bed?
2/ if she went to BR's room straight after finding the note what thought process made her disbelieve the note and still look in BR's room but nowhere else, like the living room?
3/ if she went to BR's room before finding the note why was she behaving as if she already knew JBR had been kidnapped?

If she'd thought about it, before finding the note she would have looked in JBR's room then calmly gone to BR's room expecting to find JBR there and when she didn't, calling out JBR's name and starting to look for her, building up to a search of downstairs and then finding the note.

It's rather like JR saying he read to JBR and then months later saying he said he read to himself. PR distanced herself from her OTT search of BR's room, checking JBR's room became checking for stains on JBR's red jumpsuit in the laundry area. So she locked herself into a story of flying up and down the spiral staircase, not remembering who did what who touched what or who went where (a classic). IMO.

Heyya Tortoise.



... can visualize the possibilities.

No one would see her,
but perhaps her steps down
the spiral staircase could be heard?

No need to be heard?

 

[Tadpole12]

https://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children#1

7-12 Years Old: 10 - 11 hours per day

https://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Childrenssleep/Pages/howmuchsleep.aspx

10 years
•night time: 9 hours 45 minutes

 

[UKGuy]

Doh! I know he was awake in the morning, that much is clear from my posts. What kid is gonna sleep through his mum putting the lights on and going "psycho" in his room. We've been discussing him being awake all night.

Tortoise,
if he was awake before the 911 call how do you know he ever went to bed that night? PDI proponents have no problem accepting Patsy was up all night, same clothes, makeup etc.

Lets put it this way whichever RDI is correct, then the prime suspect will have been awake all night, not unless they have a supply of strong sleeping pills, excluding melatonin.

.

 

[Tortoise]

How about it never happened. Do you think BR is completely innocent in this whole thing?


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I believe BR had no part in JonBenet's injury or death, and didn't know his parents were involved.

I do however believe that he didn't give the full story of what he knew to Patterson, because he had been made afraid of the consequences by and for JR, and then it became a matter of continuing that omission, but it wasn't knowledge of her death.

 

[Tortoise]

Heyya Tortoise.



... can visualize the possibilities.

No one would see her,
but perhaps her steps down
the spiral staircase could be heard?

No need to be heard?

No, I don't think she would worry about not being heard going up and down the spiral staircase.

 

[Tortoise]

Tortoise,
if he was awake before the 911 call how do you know he ever went to bed that night? PDI proponents have no problem accepting Patsy was up all night, same clothes, makeup etc.

Lets put it this way whichever RDI is correct, then the prime suspect will have been awake all night, not unless they have a supply of strong sleeping pills, excluding melatonin.

.

I've covered this in quite extensive posts just above.

 

[icedtea4me]

Tortoise,
if he was awake before the 911 call how do you know he ever went to bed that night? PDI proponents have no problem accepting Patsy was up all night, same clothes, makeup etc.

I think it's possible that Patsy may have dozed off for a brief time that night and then woke back up.

Lets put it this way whichever RDI is correct, then the prime suspect will have been awake all night, not unless they have a supply of strong sleeping pills, excluding melatonin.

I think it's interesting that John had been up as long as everyone else, yet he's the only one who says he required help getting to sleep.