Questions you'd like answers to...

[Miz Adventure]

Do rich people ask for doggy bags?

Your post just emphasizes how absurd it would be for an 'intruder' to hang around inside an occupied home for hours, especially after committing a murder.

The occupants could have got up for a snack or something.

Another valid reason to discount the notion. Not that we really need any more reasons.

 

[Ambitioned]

Aside from the NES and the video tapes, the clothing is different. There was a painting of a shoe tree on the doors of the closet. I know that three sets of closet doors had been painted. I don't know if the 4th set on the far right had been panted so I can't tell if the closet with the red shirt is accurate. There are more changes between the two images.

Trophy is in the same spot though. I think its the same closet with a lot of changes. In the bottom picture I still see the red shirt and pink and black shirt. I don't see the white dress though. The RADAR one was shot on the 26th I believe, later in the day after the search warrant was obtained. Not sure about the ACR picture. All it says is "National Enquirer."

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

While none of us believe in a phantom intruder obviously, that's a good point. On holidays many people get up and make them a snack even if they stuffed themselves like fattening hogs earlier in the day. What if John, Patsy, or one of the kids want a turkey sandwich, a helping of dressing/stuffing, a piece of pie, or something?

Has it ever been mentioned if the Ramseys took home a doggy bag from the Whites?

And a related idea I've had - JB was a bedwetter and it was no secret that Patsy would often go into JB's room around midnight to make her use the toilet so she wouldn't have an accident in bed. Even if Patsy didn't walk in on the abduction itself she'd certainly search the house if she did not find JB in bed. Considering the tombstone says she died before midnight, that's one lucky "intruder" who spent god knows how long in that house leaving buttprints and practicing his penmanship without Patsy noticing.

They'd been at a party with food and drink and supposedly she fell asleep in the car and never woke up. They were going to get on a plane early the next morning, would Patsy really want to risk a wet JonBenet fouling up her travel plans? You'd expect her to make JB use the bathroom at some point that night. But no, Patsy claims she let her sleep.


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[UKGuy]

And a related idea I've had - JB was a bedwetter and it was no secret that Patsy would often go into JB's room around midnight to make her use the toilet so she wouldn't have an accident in bed. Even if Patsy didn't walk in on the abduction itself she'd certainly search the house if she did not find JB in bed. Considering the tombstone says she died before midnight, that's one lucky "intruder" who spent god knows how long in that house leaving buttprints and practicing his penmanship without Patsy noticing.

They'd been at a party with food and drink and supposedly she fell asleep in the car and never woke up. They were going to get on a plane early the next morning, would Patsy really want to risk a wet JonBenet fouling up her travel plans? You'd expect her to make JB use the bathroom at some point that night. But no, Patsy claims she let her sleep.


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DrollForeignFaction,
Yup, after the visit to the Stine's the R's version of events, all three of them, is fiction, plain and simple.

Just like the ransom note its all invented to get them off the hook.

Once I found out Patsy claimed to dress JonBenet in Burke's long johns, it was over and out, case solved for me.

Like the wise man said it turtles all the way down, that is until you reach BDI then it takes over.

.
.

 

[singularity]

Do rich people ask for doggy bags?
.

In a restaurant? Highly unlikely. I cant even imagine Patsy(or John) asking for such a thing. In this specific case though, IMO its a legitimate question. It was a Christmas meal at a best friends' house. Many people take some leftovers home with them. Even if not specifically for them, they might do it for Burke and/or Jonbenet.

When going to my grandma's house for Thanksgiving and Christmas every year(she died a few months ago...RIP), I always made sure to bring home enough turkey for a couple sandwiches, a small container of dressing, yeast rolls(yummy), and a slice of pumpkin pie, pumpkin roll, pecan pie, and pineapple upside down cake.

If there was something served at the Whites that they loved, wouldn't be surprising for them to bring home a doggy bag. Remember, the Ramseys did not make their own Christmas dinner. I have no idea what their favorite foods are but they sure liked going on and on about Jonbenet loving that cracked crab. I could see Priscilla or Fleet making them a plate to go. Although we know JOnbenet didn't eat any leftovers.

Now I'm getting hungry..... :cupcake::cake4u::cake::toastred::turkey:

Your post just emphasizes how absurd it would be for an 'intruder' to hang around inside an occupied home for hours, especially after committing a murder.

The occupants could have got up for a snack or something.

Another valid reason to discount the notion. Not that we really need any more reasons.

While 90% of us who follow this case know there's less than a snowball's chance in hell of an intruder and even more people with only a casual interest in the case have started waking up over the years, I'm hoping after next year's new round of DNA testing that BDA/BPD officially announce that there was no intruder in the house. Many years ago it was semi-believable and you could make a half assed case for it......now you cant. IDI is pure fantasy land.

The occupants could have got up for a snack or something.

Yeah unless the **** hit the fan fairly quickly after arriving home, its pretty much a given that somebody ate something. Patsy still had work to do in preparation of the two trips. Easy to picture her having a snack....same with John if he was truly up with Burke assembling a toy or playing the N64......and we all know kids love late night snacks.

Trophy is in the same spot though. I think its the same closet with a lot of changes. In the bottom picture I still see the red shirt and pink and black shirt. I don't see the white dress though. The RADAR one was shot on the 26th I believe, later in the day after the search warrant was obtained. Not sure about the ACR picture. All it says is "National Enquirer."

You and Boldbear are right.....quite a few differences.

Anyone here in contact with the administrator of ACR? WE really need to attempt to date that photograph.

And a related idea I've had - JB was a bedwetter and it was no secret that Patsy would often go into JB's room around midnight to make her use the toilet so she wouldn't have an accident in bed. Even if Patsy didn't walk in on the abduction itself she'd certainly search the house if she did not find JB in bed. Considering the tombstone says she died before midnight, that's one lucky "intruder" who spent god knows how long in that house leaving buttprints and practicing his penmanship without Patsy noticing.

They'd been at a party with food and drink and supposedly she fell asleep in the car and never woke up. They were going to get on a plane early the next morning, would Patsy really want to risk a wet JonBenet fouling up her travel plans? You'd expect her to make JB use the bathroom at some point that night. But no, Patsy claims she let her sleep.

Yeah....good point. JOnbenet's need to urinate would certainly increase on a holiday...especially Christmas. We were all kids once. Drinking tons of soda, fruit punch, etc. Patsy would've certainly been aware of that so if we take her comment about JOnbenet being asleep, you're absolutely right that Patsy is gonna make sure she goes to the bathroom when they get home....regardless of the time...whether the midnight routine or even earlier.

 

[Userid]

Just found another video -- this time of the basement. I will post it here because we had some fascinating discussion about the first video in this very thread, but I will also post it in the Media thread (if it's not already posted). If someone posted this somewhere else already, I apologize.

This is of the basement area:

http://radaronline.com/videos/jonbenet-ramsey-murder-scene-video-camera-footage/

 

[Userid]

Wow, from this video above, this basement is an utter cluster-f..k. I thought I understood the layout, but now after watching this, I'm just confused -- there are rooms within rooms within rooms within rooms.

If you thought the upstairs was dirty, just wait until you watch this. Why is it so messy? Did police do that (after JBR was found)?

 

[Ambitioned]

No. I'm told that is how they lived, seriously. Even the bathroom basement door had fecal or peanut butter smears.

Makes me wanna put on my Hazmat suit just watching it.

 

[Ambitioned]

Noticed two things right away: movie posters and trash bag. Could have easily contained the pajama bottoms.

 

[Userid]

^ I just don't get it. I mean, it's just so messy in this house. How in the world would an intruder be able to navigate this house without leaving anything behind, or tripping over something, or breaking something -- it's just completely illogical. That basement is an utter war zone, right when you get to the bottom of the stairs. Seriously, it almost looks like a fight happened down there.

I noticed a couple things: first, all the supplies for wrapping gifts (paper, scissors, there might have been tape, I'll have to watch it again) are in the washer/dryer area. Now, this makes sense -- I can see someone wrapping presents here: it has a counter, etc. But PR said (and please correct me if wrong) that she would wrap presents in the wine cellar room. This, to me, is an outright lie. She wrapped presents in the washer/dryer area, not the wine cellar.

Second, that shower in the washer-dryer area -- what is on the floor in the shower? That shower just seems strange, and that back room.

The white chair at the 51 second mark must have been the one that was in front of the train-room door (that JR supposedly had to move to enter the train room). The height of this chair is high and would have been a much more suitable alternative than a unstable briefcase to out of the window, but that's moot anyway because (as we've all known) there are clearly a plethora of cobwebs on the window ledge and on the crack of the window itself.

 

[Cranberry]

If she called from the basement telephone, or if someone was listening in down there, it's no wonder the receiver wasn't hung up - look at the stuff around the phone. It's around 2:18 and 4:37

 

[Ambitioned]

Thanks for the vid by the way!!!

This pretty much confirmed it for me the window was broken from the inside.

 

[kanzz]

That place was a disgusting mess. I once had a 5K sq ft house with a basement that had been converted to an apartment for a previously owner's son and his new wife. My kids had slumber parties down there, but always cleaned up afterward.

Who liked to play in the basement?
Who would have most likely thrown things around like that, an adult or a kid?
Is this indicative of anything?

I think there are answers in that video. It's a boundaries issue. PR, in that she didn't set them; and BR in that he didn't have any. JB is also said to have dropped her clothes and toys everywhere, but she was not fond of the basement.

But these two children were parented quite differently by PR. PR, the narcissist, imo. JB was an extension of PR and did no wrong, ergo blurred boundaries. BR was the forgotten child and therefore, no boundaries. It's a deep subject. Just some random thoughts.

 

[Ambitioned]

But PR said (and please correct me if wrong) that she would wrap presents in the wine cellar room. This, to me, is an outright lie. She wrapped presents in the washer/dryer area, not the wine cellar.

Well this is interesting. John *thinks* he wrapped.

1998 June 25, 26, 27 - Taped Interrogation interview of John Ramsey by Lou Smit and Michael Kane in Colorado

NE Book Page 293

Lou Smit: "Where were those presents kept?"

John Ramsey: "Well, there were some presents in a little, what we call, the butler's kitchen... a lower level kitchen... in fact, I think I wrapped some Christmas Day to take to the airplane...."

Lou Smit: "When you wrapped them... where would you get the wrapping paper and all the things?"

John Ramsey: "I think....down in the basement...."

Lou Smit: "...Did you go into the wine cellar at that time in order to get any of those items?"

John Ramsey: "...It wouldn't have been out of the question...."

PR wrapped in laundry room but kept gifts in WC I think. Unless I missed another interview.

1997 April 30 - Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy by Steve Thomas and Tom Trujillo in Colorado

NE Book Page 36:

Tom Trujillo: (Where) do you normally store the Christmas presents say before the 25th?

Patsy Ramsey: "......the basement. I had them all in the basement."

Tom Trujillo: "Okay. Why don't you walk me through the rest of the 25th? What all did you guys do that day?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Well, I continued to wrap some presents. I went back down to the basement on the washing machine area there and wrapped for taking the stuff to the lake..."

 

[Ambitioned]

Who liked to play in the basement?
Who would have most likely thrown things around like that, an adult or a kid?
Is this indicative of anything?

Nailed it!


Linda Wilcox: It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked JonBenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there. One day, it was Suzanne, myself, Nedra and Patsy."

 

[UKGuy]

PR wrapped in laundry room but kept gifts in WC I think. Unless I missed another interview.

Ambitioned,
If you cross reference Patsy's statements regarding the Partially Wrapped Gifts you should arrive the conclusion that she is, once again, lying to cover for BR.

more here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?63733-Partially-Wrapped-Gifts


Patsy says she kept Burke's birthday gift in the wine-cellar. The rest is made up to cover for BR.

According to Kolar BR was down in the basement on Christmas afternoon opening the gifts. That's why they are Partially Opened and not because Patsy had a quick look.

To reiterate Patsy is covering for BR, she does it all the time, e.g. BR's long johns, size-12's, etc.

.

 

[Miz Adventure]

But why would Patsy say that she wrapped presents in the cellar room?

Did she lie just for the sake of it or was there a reason for her to say this?


Cellars and basements give me the creeps. Especially after reading so much about this case.

 

[Ambitioned]

From what I could see in that war zone: paintings and movie posters.

 

[Tortoise]

But why would Patsy say that she wrapped presents in the cellar room?

Did she lie just for the sake of it or was there a reason for her to say this?


Cellars and basements give me the creeps. Especially after reading so much about this case.

She didn't say that.

 

[Ambitioned]

Patsy says she kept Burke's birthday gift in the wine-cellar. The rest is made up to cover for BR.
.

A birthday gift with FAO Christmas paper? Sure. :facepalm:

How do we know those gifts weren't the same ones from around the Christmas tree. I have a feeling BR acted up and the gifts put down there and then the camera tapes conveniently went missing.

And yes PR lied all the time.