Questions you'd like answers to...

[Tadpole12]

Please can anyone check out the ""heart" in jbr hand

yep ..

 

[SerenitySprings]

Please can anyone check out the ""heart" in jbr hand

In what way should the heart be checked?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Tadpole12]

digginin sees a 'stick figure'

 

[Miz Adventure]

I think the body was always in the WC but was hidden behind some things, such as those screens and this is why FW didn't see it when he opened the door.

It's all BS. PR said that she sent FW down to the basement for wine just days before the murder, he would know where the light switch was and if he needed it to see into the space, he would have flipped it on. I think JR went down there and moved the body into a more visible position but not from another room, car trunk or crawl space - just out from behind whatever was in front of it.

Wine was never kept in the room known as the wine cellar, where JBR's body was found.

Steve Thomas said that the police dubbed the room "the wine cellar" in order to define it from all the other basement rooms down there.

So FW would not have known about that little room, because the Ramseys did not keep their wine in there.

 

[BoldBear]

I've just read the statement in "listen carefully" about the possibility of water being used to cleanse JB's vagina after her death. With the damage and vaginal scar tissue, I've also wondered if it was caused by douching rather than sexual abuse. LHP made the statement that Patsy took JBR into a bathroom with closed door and did something to make her scream. Seems like a form of punishment for the bedwetting/soiling problems.

LHP's statement about Patsy taking JB into the bathroom has been around for quiet a while. There's been a long discussion on it in the threads here.

 

[salamander23]

1. Who wrote the note?
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it?
3. What does SBTC stand for? (I'm familiar with most ideas but am not satisfied)
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault... just curious because this area gets pretty murky and I'm not sure I've seen the conclusive proof even though I think it did happen.

First off, I'm not hard RDI or IDI. The case is so full of contradiction I can never seem to decide... Interested in all hard evidence. I'm currently interested a little more in IDI theories.

While I acknowledge PR's handwriting bears a strong resemblance to the note, I believe the CONTENT is CLEARLY attributable to an adolescent / young adult male. (And I'm not saying BR) The quotes from bad action movies, the quasi-military / terrorist tone of it, the repetition, the graphic violence, and even the use of an acronym signature all point me in that direction of say 16-28 yr old. Also using a garrote fits this m.o. For the record I also don't believe JR dictated it. It is just too violent and adolescent... and I'm not ready to go down the "overselling" / "overkill" rabbit hole...

I also don't think if RDI they would use $118K in note. That seems more like say a bank teller, a coworker, or if you've seen the radar online vid of inside the house, JR has large sum checks just laying around in plain sight. I can imagine someone coming in knowing he's rich... seeing the bonus check left out for deposit on the next business day and at the last minute thinks huh... maybe I can also pull off a ransom, but then later decides not to.

I think it's perfectly possible someone hid in that large house and wrote the note on the fly while Ramseys were out. Intruder is already doing something dangerous, so hiding in the house for a while doesn't seem like "high risk"... esp when the whole thing is already V high risk.

I have a lot more to say! but tho is my very first post so I'll stick to the above questions and my current feeling that IDI.

 

[BoldBear]

I think the body was always in the WC but was hidden behind some things, such as those screens and this is why FW didn't see it when he opened the door.

It's all BS. PR said that she sent FW down to the basement for wine just days before the murder, he would know where the light switch was and if he needed it to see into the space, he would have flipped it on. I think JR went down there and moved the body into a more visible position but not from another room, car trunk or crawl space - just out from behind whatever was in front of it.

Yes, FW was sent into the basement for more wine and some was stored in the windowless room. A lot of things were taken into the basement before the party. Patsy's art supplies were moved so they could put coats in the butler's pantry. My question is were there bottles of whine that were just dropped on some counter tops in the basement? Did Fleet actually have to enter the room for the wine or did they buy extra wine for the party that was just put somewhere else in the basement? Remember that Linda said she didn't know about the room for the longest time. If she made a trip down the stairs with a few wine bottles, she may not have thought about the room. It would have been easy to drop the party's extra supplies then they could have been dropped anywhere.

 

[Cranberry]

PR 6/98 interview re wine boxes in windowless cellar room

12 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. You know, it wasn't
13 like a full-blown wine cellar, but we kept a couple
14 boxes of wine in there. And I want to say that -- I
15 don't remember whether it was the night of the 23rd,
16 that party or some party we had, I remember somebody
17 saying we are out of red wine. And I said please
18 (inaudible) to or something. But at some time, please
19 go to the basement to get some more red wine, but he
20 would know where that was.
21 TOM HANEY: Okay.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: This guy named Bob Ballis
23 (phonetic) who did some Christmas decorations, he made
24 these things, you know, a year or more before when we
25 had the Christmas open house. He would know about
0352
1 that.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: My question is: Who had been
3 in that room prior to Christmas of '96, Bob Ballis, was
4 he the Christmas of '95?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Right.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. In the months prior to
7 Christmas of 1996 Fleet would have gone in there?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would say Fleet, the
9 cleaning lady and --
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Maybe the husband?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe the husband and maybe
12 the daughter.
13 TRIP DEMUTH: How about yourself?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Me, taking hiding.
15 TRIP DEMUTH: Would the children go in there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No. If I had presents in
17 there I would have locked it up.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: They couldn't reach that?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

 

[kanzz]

Why do you suppose nobody found the body before JR was down there with FW?

1. Was the body not in the house but got moved in at some point that morning?

2. Was the body hidden elsewhere in the house and got moved to the WC at some point that morning?

3. Was the body hidden in the basement but elsewhere?

4. Was the body in the WC the whole time and the other 2 or 3 people who had gone down there just missed it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

#4, imo. That FW didn't see JBR's body troubled him and gave him great grief, but I find it understandable. He opened the door but didn't turn on the light. Nobody else opened the door.
I've never believed that FW was sent to that room for more bottles of wine during the party on the 23rd OR that wine was ever kept in that room for that matter. (It would make much more sense to keep the spare wine in the garage.)

 

[Cranberry]

kanzz, on the "Overkill" video @1:13 it looks like one of those boxes may be a wine box? The boxes are right at the entrance of the door i.e. one wouldn't have to go inside the WC very far to retrieve. But who knows what to believe...

 

[sedndun]

One of the oddest contradictions I've found is the idea that the WC is both naturally cool enough to store wine (or a body) in, but as John Ramsey later pointed out "humid," which is why he kept the cigars down there.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

kanzz, on the "Overkill" video @1:13 it looks like one of those boxes may be a wine box? The boxes are right at the entrance of the door i.e. one wouldn't have to go inside the WC very far to retrieve. But who knows what to believe...

Here's the still at that timestamp:

 

[Cranberry]

Can you tell if that is a dark cloth or something on top of the white box or is it a shadow? The white box looks like it is right on the threshold and is the light switch on the right above it? Very close quarters.

 

[kanzz]

Here's the still at that timestamp:

The white box that is turned over on its side is a wine box? Maybe it's an empty box?

 

[Cranberry]

You're right kanzz, probably empty boxes: JR 6/98 interview:

5 LOU SMIT: Okay, we are going to
16 talk a little bit if we can about the wine
17 cellar. Now, did you -- what -- how often would
18 you go into the wine cellar, let's say before
19 the 26th? We touched on this yesterday. But --
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, throughout the
21 year, hardly at all. I mean the only things
22 that were down there that we would get at, I
23 think we had some wine stored in there, just in
24 boxes at one time. I don't know if there was
25 any -- I don't know if there is any left or not.
0716
1 But we would get a case of wine and we would put
2 it down there. Cigars I stuck down there.
3 Um, and of course, you know,
4 Christmas stuff out once a year, put it back.
5 Patsy usually I think certainly that year did it
6 or had it done, so I don't remember ever getting
7 in there to get the Christmas stuff out. That's
8 about it. We rarely went in that room.

 

[Miz Adventure]

Is that a photo of the room where JBR was found?

I thought it just had a latch at the very top? That door has a lock with handles.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Is that a photo of the room where JBR was found?

I thought it just had a latch at the very top? That door has a lock with handles.

Yes, that is the wine cellar. It does have a wooden block latch at the very top, which apparently was used instead of a key in the normal lock. Perhaps because it was harder for the kids to reach it? The door does have normal handles, despite Paula Woodward claiming otherwise in her book.

 

[flourish]

1. Who wrote the note?
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it?
3. What does SBTC stand for? (I'm familiar with most ideas but am not satisfied)
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault... just curious because this area gets pretty murky and I'm not sure I've seen the conclusive proof even though I think it did happen.

First off, I'm not hard RDI or IDI. The case is so full of contradiction I can never seem to decide... Interested in all hard evidence. I'm currently interested a little more in IDI theories.

While I acknowledge PR's handwriting bears a strong resemblance to the note, I believe the CONTENT is CLEARLY attributable to an adolescent / young adult male. (And I'm not saying BR) The quotes from bad action movies, the quasi-military / terrorist tone of it, the repetition, the graphic violence, and even the use of an acronym signature all point me in that direction of say 16-28 yr old. Also using a garrote fits this m.o. For the record I also don't believe JR dictated it. It is just too violent and adolescent... and I'm not ready to go down the "overselling" / "overkill" rabbit hole...

I also don't think if RDI they would use $118K in note. That seems more like say a bank teller, a coworker, or if you've seen the radar online vid of inside the house, JR has large sum checks just laying around in plain sight. I can imagine someone coming in knowing he's rich... seeing the bonus check left out for deposit on the next business day and at the last minute thinks huh... maybe I can also pull off a ransom, but then later decides not to.

I think it's perfectly possible someone hid in that large house and wrote the note on the fly while Ramseys were out. Intruder is already doing something dangerous, so hiding in the house for a while doesn't seem like "high risk"... esp when the whole thing is already V high risk.

I have a lot more to say! but tho is my very first post so I'll stick to the above questions and my current feeling that IDI.

Welcome to WS.

 

[kanzz]

1. Who wrote the note?
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it?
3. What does SBTC stand for? (I'm familiar with most ideas but am not satisfied)
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault... just curious because this area gets pretty murky and I'm not sure I've seen the conclusive proof even though I think it did happen.

First off, I'm not hard RDI or IDI. The case is so full of contradiction I can never seem to decide... Interested in all hard evidence. I'm currently interested a little more in IDI theories.

While I acknowledge PR's handwriting bears a strong resemblance to the note, I believe the CONTENT is CLEARLY attributable to an adolescent / young adult male. (And I'm not saying BR) The quotes from bad action movies, the quasi-military / terrorist tone of it, the repetition, the graphic violence, and even the use of an acronym signature all point me in that direction of say 16-28 yr old. Also using a garrote fits this m.o. For the record I also don't believe JR dictated it. It is just too violent and adolescent... and I'm not ready to go down the "overselling" / "overkill" rabbit hole...

I also don't think if RDI they would use $118K in note. That seems more like say a bank teller, a coworker, or if you've seen the radar online vid of inside the house, JR has large sum checks just laying around in plain sight. I can imagine someone coming in knowing he's rich... seeing the bonus check left out for deposit on the next business day and at the last minute thinks huh... maybe I can also pull off a ransom, but then later decides not to.

I think it's perfectly possible someone hid in that large house and wrote the note on the fly while Ramseys were out. Intruder is already doing something dangerous, so hiding in the house for a while doesn't seem like "high risk"... esp when the whole thing is already V high risk.

I have a lot more to say! but tho is my very first post so I'll stick to the above questions and my current feeling that IDI.

imo:
1. Who wrote the note? Patsy Ramsey
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it? Deception and distancing
3. What does SBTC stand for? Saved By The Cross
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault. The Autopsy Report.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf

Only the family knew about the $118K bonus. Is that why you theorize that a bank teller did it? A bank teller whose handwriting matches Patsy's, was able to get into the locked house, and commit a senseless crime.

You are probably already aware - but your assessment that a young adult male wrote the RN doesn't match any other analysis. All others say it is an educated adult female.
"there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkably similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." -Speckin

In all fairness to you as a newbie, we don't discuss anyone outside of the R's as possible suspects here. There were only four people in the house that night, and JonBenet was murdered. That leaves three. One of those three people murdered JonBenet. There was no intruder. The IDI theory has been thoroughly debunked.

Welcome to WS.

 

[SS 396 SS]

imo:
1. Who wrote the note? Patsy Ramsey
2. Why is the name "Jonbenet" absent from it? Deception and distancing
3. What does SBTC stand for? Saved By The Cross
4. What is the most conclusive evidence of a sexual assault. The Autopsy Report.
http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/_national/jonbenet_ramsey/jonbenet_ramsey_autopsy.pdf

Only the family knew about the $118K bonus. Is that why you theorize that a bank teller did it? A bank teller whose handwriting matches Patsy's, was able to get into the locked house, and commit a senseless crime.

You are probably already aware - but your assessment that a young adult male wrote the RN doesn't match any other analysis. All others say it is an educated adult female.
"there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkably similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs." -Speckin

In all fairness to you as a newbie, we don't discuss anyone outside of the R's as possible suspects here. There were only four people in the house that night, and JonBenet was murdered. That leaves three. One of those three people murdered JonBenet. There was no intruder. The IDI theory has been thoroughly debunked.

Welcome to WS.

Really? IDI cant be discussed here? I thought the rule was you cant name a person suspect unless they are suspected by a LEA. Just curious.