Questions you'd like answers to...

[elendast]

Here's a question I'd like answered. What is Lawrence Schiller's deal? You know he isn't stupid enough to buy that the Ramseys are uninvolved but he has consistently promoted a subtly pro-IDI viewpoint over the years, up to participating in the recent Dr. Phil farce and giving PW a blurb for her book calling that clunker the most definitive account of the case since his. Puh-lease.

I know the most logical reason is that he just dgaf about justice and does whatever he finds personally most advantageous but I don't get why he thinks staying on the RSTs good side is worth anything.


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If you read about his involvement with the OJ case, it all makes sense. He's had no shame and no respect for decades. He's sleezy as can be. Doesn't seem to care about the victims at the end of the day. I only wonder how he got so many people to talk to him when he was writing PMPT.

 

[RL2]

One more:

Has there been any mention of, or reference to, Thorazine anywhere in this investigation?

So, I had to go and look up Thorazine... it is apparently used not only for manic phase bipolar, but also severe conduct disorder in children!

https://www.drugs.com/cdi/thorazine.html

 

[singularity]

Then there's that lizard tongue thing he does, and Thorazine is known for causing dry mouth.

So does meth, cocaine, oxy, and benzos can also cause dry mouth although this differs person to person.

The closet with the inset lock on the door has always interested me - even more so after Kolar's book came out. Why does the title ask who really kidnapped JonBenet and not who really killed her? Is he giving us a clue about Burke tormenting JBR by trapping her in closets and such? Kidnapping doesn't necessarily mean sequestering a person and holding him/her for ransom but refers to any action where a person is prevented from moving freely or made to go somewhere against his/her will. Is Kolar asking who put or trapped JBR in the basement that night? Why does he want us to pay attention to that question first?

I have speculated that JR might have hidden the body in the locked closet and realized he had to relocate it before search dogs were brought in. The closet might not have struck police as suspicious, much as the locked wine cellar didn't, because they were initially focused on possible exits for an intruder. But if JR did hide the body there, he had to relocate it because, while an intruder might have hidden the body there, only a family member could have locked that door. Did he grow agitated in part because he was wondering how he would explain why dogs found cadaver scent in both places?

Good observations. It does make you wonder exactly how many rooms in that house(basement) were actually locked that morning besides the wine cellar.

This new video raises more questions than answers. We now realize how unconventional this basement truly was and John being off the grid for over an hour makes even more sense now. He may have been doing things down there besides just staging.

Fellow poster DeeDee has been adamant that the livor mortis evidence shows that JBR's body wasn't moved after death. However, I think the body could have lay on its back in the closet and been moved to the wine cellar quickly without disturbing livor mortis, especially if it were set enough to resist blanching -- which it would have been by 11:00 AM. Maximum lividity occurs 6 - 12 hours after death.

Yeah quite a few people(including experts) do not believe she was moved and they certainly can back up their opinion but I am in the group that does believe it was possible that she was moved at some point that night/morning.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, if anywhere - just sharing some thoughts I've had.

Please continue to share. You've had some great posts in this section recently.


Ambitioned...

I agree especially if there was lint and dirt on her feet.

Yeah many have wanted to see the autopsy photos of her feet or pics showing her feet when still in the house to notice if there are any signs that she was running and/or standing when she was bludgeoned. Now that we realize how messy that basement truly was, its possible she could've tripped, fallen, and either cracked a nail or even got a small cut somewhere on her feet.

Maybe Beuf was Candyman.

If Patsy had a name for him it was likely something along the lines of Dr. Feelgood, Mr. Life Saver Man, my Savior, etc.


Cranberry...

I read an excerpt from JR's journal from PW's book and JR called Dr. Beuf "Chuck".

Holy crap. :freakedout: Chuck is a junkie term for the hunger when going through heroin withdrawals. Prescription drugs like oxy are basically just synthetic heroin.

JOhn could say something like, "Would you get over here. Patsy's going through the chucks.".....thus a nickname is born.

GReat post on Dr. Beuf, kanzz. I think he was a pill dispenser for Patsy more than he was Jonbenet's pediatrician. Even if he saw something suspicious, he never would've said anything.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

If you read about his involvement with the OJ case, it all makes sense. He's had no shame and no respect for decades. He's sleezy as can be. Doesn't seem to care about the victims at the end of the day. I only wonder how he got so many people to talk to him when he was writing PMPT.

So true, thank you. I always think of the OJ thing when I think of him. As I recall, he ghostwrote a book for OJ proclaiming his innocence, and then turned around and wrote another book after the fact using incriminating info he'd gotten from OJ while ghostwriting the book to make ANOTHER book indicating OJ was guilty.

Obviously, OJ killed Ron and Nicole and I don't have a problem with Schiller exposing that obvious truth. But that he was underhanded enough to release a book promoting OJ's "innocence" in the first place exposes him as someone who dgaf about justice or victims, just his own self-promotion. You'd have to be at least kind of dead inside to sit there taking down OJ's side of the story and not projectile vomit. But this amoral jerk has managed to promote himself as an "authority" on JBRs murder despite any compelling credentials anyway.


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[elendast]

So true, thank you. I always think of the OJ thing when I think of him. As I recall, he ghostwrote a book for OJ proclaiming his innocence, and then turned around and wrote another book after the fact using incriminating info he'd gotten from OJ while ghostwriting the book to make ANOTHER book indicating OJ was guilty.

Obviously, OJ killed Ron and Nicole and I don't have a problem with Schiller exposing that obvious truth. But that he was underhanded enough to release a book promoting OJ's "innocence" in the first place exposes him as someone who dgaf about justice or victims, just his own self-promotion. You'd have to be at least kind of dead inside to sit there taking down OJ's side of the story and not projectile vomit. But this amoral jerk has managed to promote himself as an "authority" on JBRs murder despite any compelling credentials anyway.


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Precisely!!!!!!!!! And it's so maddening that he presents himself as some kind of an expert on the case. I have heard him talk about the case so many times and just state false information as facts! Either that or he just speaks vaguely about the whole thing. He never speaks warmly of JonBenet or like he is connected to the tragedy of the case.

It sickens me how many people have profited of the death of this beautiful child. I just don't get it.

 

[Ambitioned]

Back in the day, we didn't have "VIs", but we always suspected that some insiders posted here. Judith Phillips supposedly posted at one time.

I wonder now, if Blue Crab would be a VI? He seemed to know a lot of insider info, verified more and more today.

I LOVED the BlueCrab posts (cept the Nathan one ~ thought that was a bit far out for me) But, it's so odd he just disappeared. Did anyone check any real life dates of those involved with the case against the date BC last posted? :findinglink::lookingitup:

 

[Disgusted]

Ok, another question. This one may seem out there at first glance, but please bear with me.

Is there ANY possibility whatsoever, that Jonbenet was still alive when the 911 call was made? No matter how remote, is it possible?

Along those lines, sub-questions:

1. Did any investigator or person working on the case ever suggest or think it possible that Jonbenet was alive at the time of the 911 call?
2. Did anyone working on the case ever suggest or believe in a time of death that would put her alive at the time of the 911 call.
3. What is the latest time into the day that any investigator has suggested as her possible time of death?

Thanks.

 

[singularity]

Disgusted.....

While the chances are basically one in a million, yes there is a chance she was alive during the 911 call. The coroner did a terrible job but that is par for the course on this case. After showing up at the house, he did no preliminary tests on her body to establish time of death and she laid on that floor for hours until finally being removed from the home that night.

There is a huge window on time of death....basically from the moment the family arrived home until 6 am. TOD is just a guess although the main assumption is that she died around 10 pm to midnight.

To the sub questions.....no I don't think anyone involved believed she died during or right after the 911 call. There have definitely been some amateur sleuth theories of that happening but no one ever took it seriously. Worst theory concerning this issue I ever saw was many years ago when someone said Fleet killed her when he showed up at the house to look for her in the wine cellar.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

I LOVED the BlueCrab posts (cept the Nathan one ~ thought that was a bit far out for me) But, it's so odd he just disappeared. Did anyone check any real life dates of those involved with the case against the date BC last posted? :findinglink::lookingitup:

While his grand jury thread was compelling I don't think he had any inside info. I was reading the stun gun thread last night and in 2004 he was all over it arguing that a stun gun was without a doubt used to torture JB. It was a major component of his theory. AFAIK his (possible) accuracy in describing the grand jury results and why they happened is why some think he might be an insider - but surely the grand jury did not also decide a stun gun was used. The prosecutor Mike Kane tried to debunk what he called the "stun gun myth" on Dan Abrams after the GJ ended so it can't have been part of the theory he presented to the jury. BC also intimated in the thread that he believed the grand jury thought DS and Nathan and the Asian student union he was in were involved with the crime, which I find beyond belief. I think if he was truly privy to confidential grand jury info he wouldn't be so off-base in these areas.

I don't know if Judith ever posted on this site but she did post as "cookie" on FFJ. In one of the early internet chats (circa 1998/2000) Steve Thomas admitted he and other case insiders looked at the forums and sites like Mrs. Brady's links but would not admit to posting. I wonder if Kolar has ever surfed the forums...


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[TeaTime]

Ok, another question. This one may seem out there at first glance, but please bear with me.

Is there ANY possibility whatsoever, that Jonbenet was still alive when the 911 call was made? No matter how remote, is it possible?

Along those lines, sub-questions:

1. Did any investigator or person working on the case ever suggest or think it possible that Jonbenet was alive at the time of the 911 call?
2. Did anyone working on the case ever suggest or believe in a time of death that would put her alive at the time of the 911 call.
3. What is the latest time into the day that any investigator has suggested as her possible time of death?

Thanks.

The estimated time of death is 1:00am. No one ever suggested she was still alive at the time of the 911 call.

 

[TeaTime]

Disgusted.....

While the chances are basically one in a million, yes there is a chance she was alive during the 911 call. The coroner did a terrible job but that is par for the course on this case. After showing up at the house, he did no preliminary tests on her body to establish time of death and she laid on that floor for hours until finally being removed from the home that night.

There is a huge window on time of death....basically from the moment the family arrived home until 6 am. TOD is just a guess although the main assumption is that she died around 10 pm to midnight.

To the sub questions.....no I don't think anyone involved believed she died during or right after the 911 call. There have definitely been some amateur sleuth theories of that happening but no one ever took it seriously. Worst theory concerning this issue I ever saw was many years ago when someone said Fleet killed her when he showed up at the house to look for her in the wine cellar.

The coroner had to wait for a warrant.

 

[singularity]

If he had to wait that many hours for a damn warrant in the murder of a six year old girl just to do a few on site tests to determine TOD, every single person should've been fired on the spot.

 

[DrollForeignFaction]

From the recently released Listen Carefully! (True Crime Detectives Guild):

When Meyer arrived at the Ramsey home on 15th Street, it was still guarded by police. Yellow crime-scene tape surrounded the house to keep back reporters, neighbors, and curiosity seekers. Meyer walked up to the patrolman who stood guard at the door. It is unknown if Meyer was prevented from entering the house or if he simply asked if there was a search warrant issued allowing him to enter. In either case, it is generally agreed a coroner should be allowed to take custody of a dead body or at least be allowed access to the body for collection of information critical to determining Time of Death (TOD) without a search warrant.

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[otg]

The coroner had to wait for a warrant.

Actually, no he didn't. He did, either because he didn't know his own authority or he didn't care enough to use it.

Meyer was told he couldn't examine the body until a search warrant was signed by a judge (this from the DA's office). Here is what Dr. Frederick Zugibe had to say about that in his book Dissecting Death: Secrets of a Medical Examiner:

Coroners and medical examiners have the legal authority to enter a crime scene at any time without a warrant, and that, in fact, it is the essence of their job to take over the body and the scene as quickly as possible, and to oversee the investigation until the corpse is removed from the premises. To bar a coroner from a murder site is not only an outlandish breach of protocol, it is illegal.

​

In fact, this principle was written into Colorado Statutes (CRS 30-10-606) in 2013 to make sure it was understood. Here is the wording from that statute:

Upon arrival of the coroner, law enforcement shall make all reasonable accommodations to allow the coroner to collect time-sensitive information such as body and scene temperature, lividity, and rigor.
​

Meyer waited outside the Ramsey house longer than the time he spent examining her body.

 

[otg]

From the recently released Listen Carefully! (True Crime Detectives Guild):

Oops! Sorry, DFF. I started writing a response and didn't finish it until after you posted. :blushing:

 

[otg]

From the recently released Listen Carefully! (True Crime Detectives Guild):

So, Droll... You're reading that new book by "TCDG." What's the word on it? I saw this morning that it's gotten one good review, and it's #1 in the True Crime category. What's your opinion?

 

[singularity]

Actually, no he didn't. He did, either because he didn't know his own authority or he didn't care enough to use it.

Are you implying that someone in Boulder may have been incompetent? The horror! :tantrum:

Meyer waited outside the Ramsey house longer than the time he spent examining her body.

Makes me want to bring back tarring and feathering.

Thankd for the info DFF and otg.

 

[otg]

So, Droll... You're reading that new book by "TCDG." What's the word on it? I saw this morning that it's gotten one good review, and it's #1 in the True Crime category. What's your opinion?

My bad. The book is #1 in the "Forensic Science" category, not "True Crime." (I don't know how Amazon's categories work.):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/11007/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_4_last

When I saw my mistake, it was too late to edit it in the previous post. :facepalm:

 

[UKGuy]

My bad. The book is #1 in the "Forensic Science" category, not "True Crime." (I don't know how Amazon's categories work.):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/11007/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_b_1_4_last

When I saw my mistake, it was too late to edit it in the previous post. :facepalm:

otg,
Oh you are so pedantic, who cares about categories. Folks here will know exactly what you are talking about.

I don't bother with amazon but can follow your posts without an amazon semantic guide.

Its those new pictures that interest me, JonBenet looks so tiny and young, a contrast with the autopsy pictures.

.

 

[otg]

otg,
Oh you are so pedantic, who cares about categories. Folks here will know exactly what you are talking about.

I don't bother with amazon but can follow your posts without an amazon semantic guide.

Its those new pictures that interest me, JonBenet looks so tiny and young, a contrast with the autopsy pictures.

.

Pedantic? Me? Not really -- I just stay awake at night worrying I might have said something that wasn't 100% correct and accurate. :floorlaugh: Pedantic? :lol: (I've been called much worse.)

And I agree with you on all these new photos and crime scene video coming out. It truly horrified me to see that latest (?) video showing her covered body still lying on the floor under the Christmas tree waiting for the coroner to finish his evening celebration with his family before showing up to spend less than ten minutes examining her. I get mad every time I think about that.