Questions you'd like answers to...

[AlGx]

Apparently they found a blonde hair that matched JonBenet's in the suitcase found near the window- is that right?

 

[Userid]

^ I'm unsure about that particular find, but then again, this wouldn't necessarily prove much. The suitcase was obviously in the house and JBR lived there: I guess what I'm saying is, that hair could have made it's way in there anytime before that night; or JBR could have accessed the suitcase anytime before.

The contents of the suitcase have always fascinated me. If memory serves, there was a blanket, and a children's book. The hair could have been affixed to either one of these items, which is why it was found in the suitcase. The question then is, when were those items inserted in the suitcase, and by whom?

 

[Annapurna]

^ I'm unsure about that particular find, but then again, this wouldn't necessarily prove much. The suitcase was obviously in the house and JBR lived there: I guess what I'm saying is, that hair could have made it's way in there anytime before that night; or JBR could have accessed the suitcase anytime before.

The contents of the suitcase have always fascinated me. If memory serves, there was a blanket, and a children's book. The hair could have been affixed to either one of these items, which is why it was found in the suitcase. The question then is, when were those items inserted in the suitcase, and by whom?

Adding to the mystery, I've heard that it was an "adult Dr. Seuss book", the source was an official document but I don't know who wrote it, I only saw a screenshot.

Dr. Seuss did write an adult book, The Seven Lady Godivas. So if that was the book, the rest of the evidence in the suitcase looks very odd indeed.


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[DrollForeignFaction]

Apparently they found a blonde hair that matched JonBenet's in the suitcase found near the window- is that right?

I don't recall reading anything about a blonde hair found in that suitcase in any of the books I've read on the case, or in any of the forum posts I've read. Do you remember where you read that?

 

[Malcolm]

Adding to the mystery, I've heard that it was an "adult Dr. Seuss book", the source was an official document but I don't know who wrote it, I only saw a screenshot.

Dr. Seuss did write an adult book, The Seven Lady Godivas. So if that was the book, the rest of the evidence in the suitcase looks very odd indeed.

I think the suitcase was packed with items that related to a child as the original plan was to dispose of JBR's body along with the suitcase. The idea being that both would subsequently be found together and point to a kidnapping gone wrong. The suitcase and items inside would show that the kidnapper(s) took some personal belongings of JBR to 'comfort' her before she was returned to her parents.

The plan went awry when the R's could not or would not bring themselves to dispose of the body.

 

[sbaughman]

The contents of the suitcase were a pillow sham, a duvet, and a Dr. Seuss Book, all from the Ramsey home. Fibers from the sham and duvet (in the suitcase) were found on JBR's shirt when her clothing was examined. This is from Woodward's book, she cites the Wolf v. Ramsey deposition/Judge Julie Carnes as the source

I don't remember reading anything about JBR's hair being found on the suitcase, nor anything about it being an adult Dr. Seuss book. Woodward implies the book belonged to JBR, and I believe either Thomas or Schiller discuss it in the context of being a children's book as well, but I haven't thoroughly looked through them to check, so it's possible in scanning them I missed the reference.


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[AlGx]

I don't recall reading anything about a blonde hair found in that suitcase in any of the books I've read on the case, or in any of the forum posts I've read. Do you remember where you read that?

Oh my gosh! I wrote it wrong sorry! I meant to say the FIBERS from the sham and duvet where found on JBR's body. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[UKGuy]

The contents of the suitcase were a pillow sham, a duvet, and a Dr. Seuss Book, all from the Ramsey home. Fibers from the sham and duvet (in the suitcase) were found on JBR's shirt when her clothing was examined. This is from Woodward's book, she cites the Wolf v. Ramsey deposition/Judge Julie Carnes as the source

I don't remember reading anything about JBR's hair being found on the suitcase, nor anything about it being an adult Dr. Seuss book. Woodward implies the book belonged to JBR, and I believe either Thomas or Schiller discuss it in the context of being a children's book as well, but I haven't thoroughly looked through them to check, so it's possible in scanning them I missed the reference.


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sbaughman,
Looks as if the suitcase was part of a prior staging. The reason I think this is JR has a story to tell, regarding how he moved the suitcase from upstairs to down to the basement.

This is the man who forgot to fix his broken window, a CEO who employs a housemaid but does it all himself ... not

So the broken window, suitcase, stuff moved around, pictures of JonBenet left lying about in the basement, etc, all suggest JR backtracking and offering plausible explanations for these objects.

The contents of the suitcase seem innocent enough, no real surprises, etc. Patsy was told in interview that the book had JAR's name on it.

Its any link to those alleged fibers deposited on JonBenet that is really relevant, prove they exist and the suitcase likely played some role in JonBenet's staging or death.

.

 

[sbaughman]

sbaughman,
Looks as if the suitcase was part of a prior staging. The reason I think this is JR has a story to tell, regarding how he moved the suitcase from upstairs to down to the basement.

This is the man who forgot to fix his broken window, a CEO who employs a housemaid but does it all himself ... not

So the broken window, suitcase, stuff moved around, pictures of JonBenet left lying about in the basement, etc, all suggest JR backtracking and offering plausible explanations for these objects.

The contents of the suitcase seem innocent enough, no real surprises, etc. Patsy was told in interview that the book had JAR's name on it.

Its any link to those alleged fibers deposited on JonBenet that is really relevant, prove they exist and the suitcase likely played some role in JonBenet's staging or death.

.

I wasn't trying to draw any conclusions from the contents of the suitcase or the fibers found on JBR, just pointing out what the items were and the source of that info.

The CBI found fibers on JBR's shirt were consistent with the pillow sham/duvet found in the suitcase. In the Wolf v. Ramsey case, both parties listed this piece of evidence from the CBI Lab Report in their Statements of Undisputed Material Facts, and Federal Judge Julie Carnes cites this evidence in her opinion of the case. So the fibers clearly existed, and at least according to CBI, were consistent with the pillow sham/duvet from the suitcase. Does that mean they are relevant to the crime? I have no idea. Fibers can be transferred in completely innocent ways, so I don't find it extremely compelling evidence for any theory. I think the items in the suitcase could have been there for a completely innocent or unrelated reason.


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[TinaD]

I suspect, as someone earlier said, that the suitcase was going to be used to remove JBR's body. The reference in the note to 'bring an adequately sized attache' or similar, was supposed to cover JR if anyone saw him leaving the house with case/body - he was using the case to get the money (in PR's fanciful plan). And she would be found dead, because the Ramsey's had disobeyed and called the police. And just to make sure any 'kidnappers' 'monitoring' the house knew, they also had the friends over. But that plan went awry when they couldn't fit her in the suitcase. (Maybe they left it too long and rigor had set in? Maybe this is what JR was trying to do in the time he was missing? Fit her in the suitcase - doesn't work - come up with a second plan?)

 

[AGettler]

The pen used to write the ransom note was found, but I don't recall ever learning about whether or not the red pen/marker/etc was found that made the mark (heart?) on her hand? I think if it had been found, I would have read about it and the lack of finger prints on it.

 

[Tadpole12]

'adult Dr. Suess book'

http://www.acandyrose.com/AnatomyColdCase224.jpg

question of origin:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tcase-in-the-basement&p=10239551#post10239551

 

[Userid]

Some background on the book: https://www.brainpickings.org/2012/03/02/dr-seuss-seven-lady-godivas/

Did the R's ever admit to owning the Seven Lady Godiva's book?

My next question would be, why was this book chosen by the R's in the staging (since I don't believe in the intruder theory)? Or rather, why would they chose this book to use in order to point to an intruder?

As in the article, the book centers around Lady Godiva: a blonde woman who rides naked on a horse, and a "peeping" Tom. The blonde would obviously symbolize JBR and the peeping Tom would symbolize the "intruder." When you remove the 6 brothers and 6 sisters from each side, you only have the one blonde and the one peeping Tom (as explained in the 2nd paragraph of the foreword).

More on the legend the book was based off of: http://harvardmagazine.com/2003/07/lady-godiva-the-naked-tr.html

 

[CircuitGuy]

Maybe this is what JR was trying to do in the time he was missing? Fit her in the suitcase - doesn't work - come up with a second plan?)

It might have been part of the plan at some point, but I do not believe they considered moving the body secretly once the police had arrived.

 

[UKGuy]

I suspect, as someone earlier said, that the suitcase was going to be used to remove JBR's body. The reference in the note to 'bring an adequately sized attache' or similar, was supposed to cover JR if anyone saw him leaving the house with case/body - he was using the case to get the money (in PR's fanciful plan). And she would be found dead, because the Ramsey's had disobeyed and called the police. And just to make sure any 'kidnappers' 'monitoring' the house knew, they also had the friends over. But that plan went awry when they couldn't fit her in the suitcase. (Maybe they left it too long and rigor had set in? Maybe this is what JR was trying to do in the time he was missing? Fit her in the suitcase - doesn't work - come up with a second plan?)

TinaD,
That's an interesting explanation, and it might be the right one, but for many members it will not fly since Patsy has to know the A to Z of the plan to put it in the Ransom Note.

If you a right, maybe there should be fibers on BR's long johns? If not, does this mean, she was redressed after attempting to fit her into the suitcase?

If the RN really meant Samsonite Suitcase why not say suitcase, to my mind an attache case is a small case carried by bankers and legal types, to keep their contracts safe.

ETA: I've always thought why did the R's stage as they did, i.e. why not take JonBenet's body to the plane, kid on she is sleeping and dispose of her body later that day?

There must have been something that deterred the R's from any other course of action?

.

.

 

[AlGx]

According to James Marshall's reddit Q&A, " the coroner determined that strands of JBR’s hair had been forcibly extracted from her scalp" Never heard this before.

 

[Annapurna]

It is very unlikely that JBR was moved or that anyone tried to put her in the suitcase. If she was moved into a different position then the pattern of livor mortis (and the blanching) would reflect that. There was a poster DeeDee who was great at explaining the stages the body would have gone through and what that tells us. I'll see if I can find that for you.


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[UKGuy]

According to James Marshall's reddit Q&A, " the coroner determined that strands of JBR’s hair had been forcibly extracted from her scalp" Never heard this before.

AlGx,
Are you referring to James Kolar's AMA?

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/30nfvc/hi_im_chief_marshall_james_kolar_ama/

Karr said a lot of things which were not consistent with the facts of the case. It is my recollection that the coroner determined that strands of JBR’s hair had been forcibly extracted from her scalp, but I don’t recall that any ‘lock of hair’ had actually been ‘cut’ as posed by your statement attributed to Karr. Some strands of her hair were found in the knots of the handle of the garrote. I would refer you to the autopsy report for clarification.

The extraction of hair is consistent with the hair becoming embedded into the ligature paintbrush device.

Years ago I rejected the Erotic Asphyxiation theory proposed by some for this very reason, i.e. it would all be extremely painful for JonBenet.

.

 

[UKGuy]

It is very unlikely that JBR was moved or that anyone tried to put her in the suitcase. If she was moved into a different position then the pattern of livor mortis (and the blanching) would reflect that. There was a poster DeeDee who was great at explaining the stages the body would have gone through and what that tells us. I'll see if I can find that for you.


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Annapurna,
ITA. The rigor mortis also explains why she was not taken on the plane.

So does all this. including DDs analysis, suggest the parents found JonBenet's body when it was in an advanced stage of rigor mortis, and any movement would have been reflected in blanching as per the livor mortis?

.

 

[Annapurna]

Annapurna,
ITA. The rigor mortis also explains why she was not taken on the plane.

So does all this. including DDs analysis, suggest the parents found JonBenet's body when it was in an advanced stage of rigor mortis, and any movement would have been reflected in blanching as per the livor mortis?

.

I believe it tells us that she was moved only very soon after her death before the effects of rigor or livor could set in. If she was in some way manipulated later, the livor/ blanching patter would reflect that she changed positions. Rigor sets in the small muscles first (fingers, eyes, jaw etc) and that would start between 2-6 hrs post mortem. It would take several more hours for the larger muscles.
I just had a thought: the strange mark on her cheek, maybe her head was in a different position just long enough for some lividity to set in on that spot. The other strange blanching is on the neck. Was that the first time she was strangled and then someone later came and moved/ tightened the ligature to help the staging? At that time maybe moving her head. I can't remember which cheek had the mark.

I am not a medical professional, and I am not looking a lot of this up, so if anyone has input please let me know.


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