Questions you'd like answers to...

[UKGuy]

Committing murder is not a "cover up", which is exactly what John and/or Patsy did if we're to accept BDI. She was alive when her parents made a decision to sacrifice her life for her brother's, and choked her to death. A cover up is when, upon finding your daughter unconscious due to a blow to the head inflicted by her brother, you call 911 and say she fell down the stairs. Fashioning a torture device designed to kill is premeditated murder. The cause of death was asphyxiation.

To say that neither parent would cover for the other is a wild assumption. Sure it sounds illogical to us, but stranger occurrences have happened. Casey Anthony's father stayed with his wife who declares Casey's innocence even after he was accused of sexual abuse. He's estranged from Casey while his wife is still in contact with her. That sounds absolutely crazy, but dysfunctional dynamics exist.

Peppermintswirlz,
The parents need not have killed JonBenet to instigate a cover up !


They might only have staged a homicide, i.e. the wine-cellar crime-scene. As I understand it this is James Kolar's position, although not spelled out word for word.

Kolar's BDI All has Burke doing it all: killing and assaulting JonBenet with some amateur staging thrown in. Along come the parents and move JonBenet down to the basement, redress, wipe down, and apply a ligature device, voila - you have the wine-cellar crime-scene?

This seems to be the best explanation for most of the evidence, at least better than either JDI, or PDI, yet it does not rule them out.

Remember both parents did not remove crucial forensic evidence, e.g. the pineapple snack, yet someone removed the clean size-12's, weird, probably along with JonBenet's size-6 underwerwear?

So they removed what they knew about, and left what they were ignorant about. This might explain JR's cornucopia of stories regarding various items in the basement?

if the case is PDI, why did Patsy kill her baby, then inflict a fake sexual assault, and place her in the wine-cellar, JonBenet was her Project?

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[AlGx]

Question I've got:

We all know JB was found with her arms above her head in full rigor and she was more than likely strangled by the paint tote near the wine cellar since carpet fibers where found on her face (as far as I've read anyway).

Just had a thought- even though we probably wont know for sure, do you think JB's arms were placed over head when she was being strangled from behind? Or were they placed above her head after the strangulation?

 

[UKGuy]

Question I've got:

We all know JB was found with her arms above her head in full rigor and she was more than likely strangled by the paint tote near the wine cellar since carpet fibers where found on her face (as far as I've read anyway).

Just had a thought- even though we probably wont know for sure, do you think JB's arms were placed over head when she was being strangled from behind? Or were they placed above her head after the strangulation?

AlGx,
JonBenet's arms might have been located as you describe because someone dragged her by the arms, say from one bedroom to another, or from the breakfast bar to the basement, think: all those marks on her body?

The affixing of JonBenet's ligature screams staging, like was one of the surviving Ramsey's reading books on Thuugee techniques? Why was the ligature device knotted at the back, i.e. why bother, when the purpose is to kill, not create celtic knots at a crime-scene.

So its quite likely JonBenet was posed as she was found because whomever applied the ligature thought thats how a dead body should look?

That is the wine-cellar is a staged crime-scene from top to bottom.

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[archieil]

pre-mortem - strangulation

post-mortem - wrapping, hand drawing?, dressing?, moving body and so on

I was able to imagine moving the body from near winecellar to a winecellar via hands.

Dragging a 6-year-old and wrapping her, no information marks on her body were post-mortem.

Taking this into account I am assuming that he was dressing her just after strangulation and it took him a while to think what to do next.

[edit] Dragging the body by hands just after strangulation = BDI with rest of "staging" much later. I am not able to imagine adult dragging her to move her anywhere.

Seems my starting PDI ideas "saved" my soul from taking BDI into account.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I sometimes think what if a friend of JB i.e daughter of FW (God forbid) was found dead in that hellhole on that Christmas night instead of JB .. With no evidence of an intruder as per grand jury indictments , would all three walk free as the victim was put under cold soil?

 

[DeDee]

I sometimes think what if a friend of JB i.e daughter of FW (God forbid) was found dead in that hellhole on that Christmas night instead of JB .. With no evidence of an intruder as per grand jury indictments , would all three walk free as the victim was put under cold soil?

It has always bothered me that we are supposed to hold FW as if a Golden Column meant for worshipping.
I have an entire dossier on him that I've never felt at ease to present due to the worship of the Golden Column. I will add that he holds none of my respect. Ditto all of that for Hunter.

One only needs to stand back to see the whole picture.

 

[Cottonstar]

It has always bothered me that we are supposed to hold FW as if a Golden Column meant for worshipping.
I have an entire dossier on him that I've never felt at ease to present due to the worship of the Golden Column. I will add that he holds none of my respect. Ditto all of that for Hunter.

One only needs to stand back to see the whole picture.

Hey, it is Fleet White Friday, after all.


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[Heatherk79]

Speaking of that screenshot, Heather was/is a great poster. I wish she'd join here.

Aww, singularity, I was reading through old comments and saw this. Thank you; you just made my day. :blushing:
Although, I've probably ruined cottonstar's by joining Websleuths.

 

[AlGx]

Did they ever do DNA tests on the glass or the rim of the glass found by the pineapple bowl? If they didnt, why not?

 

[UKGuy]

Here is a question for all sleuthers who wish to solve the case: If the case is PDI and PR killed JonBenet for whatever reason then wrote the RN and staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar, why did she not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the Ramsey version of events?

Recap: Patsy puts JonBenet to bed after dressing her in Burke's longjohns, despite a drawer full of suitable pajamas, so thats JonBenet tucked in.

Fast forward to the next morning and the bedroom is a mess, bedclothes are missing, stuff is strewn all over the floor, JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, the surface of her bed is all askew with bed items.

Did the intruder do all this, if so why, as I thought he just entered the bedroom scooped JonBenet up, as she slept, and took her down to the basement?

So Patsy fabricated a crime-scene down in the basement that was consistent with the RN and her tale about putting JonBenet to bed, but JonBenet's bedroom, the mes, how come?

Why did Patsy not stage JonBenet's bedroom as she did the wine-cellar?

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[Cottonstar]

Here is a question for all sleuthers who wish to solve the case: If the case is PDI and PR killed JonBenet for whatever reason then wrote the RN and staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar, why did she not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the Ramsey version of events?

Recap: Patsy puts JonBenet to bed after dressing her in Burke's longjohns, despite a drawer full of suitable pajamas, so thats JonBenet tucked in.

Fast forward to the next morning and the bedroom is a mess, bedclothes are missing, stuff is strewn all over the floor, JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, the surface of her bed is all askew with bed items.

Did the intruder do all this, if so why, as I thought he just entered the bedroom scooped JonBenet up, as she slept, and took her down to the basement?

So Patsy fabricated a crime-scene down in the basement that was consistent with the RN and her tale about putting JonBenet to bed, but JonBenet's bedroom, the mes, how come?

Why did Patsy not stage JonBenet's bedroom as she did the wine-cellar?

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Patsy said in her interviews with police, that she put JonBenét’s pillow at the end of her bed where it was in the crime scene photos. This was a spontaneous utterance. My question is, when did you do that Patsy? JR stated in his interviews that it wasn’t normal for the pillow to have been at the end of the bed. So, when did you put her pillow at the end of the bed? Remember, she states she never set foot in JonBenét’s room after she put her to bed.


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[illyana]

I go back on forth on this one. No theory, no conviction. The FBI should investigate malfeasance on the part of Colorado DAs who are sitting on evidence. Re-interview the Grand Jury members. The fake ransom note points to three suspects. The way the DA shut everything down suggests an attempt to protect a child. It's MDI or BDI. But who knows.

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy said in her interviews with police, that she put JonBenét’s pillow at the end of her bed where it was in the crime scene photos. This was a spontaneous utterance. My question is, when did you do that Patsy? JR stated in his interviews that it wasn’t normal for the pillow to have been at the end of the bed. So, when did you put her pillow at the end of the bed? Remember, she states she never set foot in JonBenét’s room after she put her to bed.


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Cottonstar,
ITA. JonBenet's bedroom is a red flag as far the Ramsey's version of events is concerned. It's pretty obvious why Patsy never staged JonBenet's bedroom, its the same reason she had to say she dressed JonBenet in Burke's longjohns. Where did JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms go?

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[UKGuy]

I go back on forth on this one. No theory, no conviction. The FBI should investigate malfeasance on the part of Colorado DAs who are sitting on evidence. Re-interview the Grand Jury members. The fake ransom note points to three suspects. The way the DA shut everything down suggests an attempt to protect a child. It's MDI or BDI. But who knows.

illyana,
BDI explains more of the evidence than any other theory, all of which have black holes in them. The DAs behaviour tell us something was required to be hidden, and its a civilian homicide case !

Somebody will eventually talk, they always do.

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[k-mac]

Here is a question for all sleuthers who wish to solve the case: If the case is PDI and PR killed JonBenet for whatever reason then wrote the RN and staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar, why did she not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the Ramsey version of events?

Recap: Patsy puts JonBenet to bed after dressing her in Burke's longjohns, despite a drawer full of suitable pajamas, so thats JonBenet tucked in.

Fast forward to the next morning and the bedroom is a mess, bedclothes are missing, stuff is strewn all over the floor, JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, the surface of her bed is all askew with bed items.

Did the intruder do all this, if so why, as I thought he just entered the bedroom scooped JonBenet up, as she slept, and took her down to the basement?

So Patsy fabricated a crime-scene down in the basement that was consistent with the RN and her tale about putting JonBenet to bed, but JonBenet's bedroom, the mes, how come?

Why did Patsy not stage JonBenet's bedroom as she did the wine-cellar?

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but it was staged to ramseys version of events???

why are you making the assumption jonbenets room should have been immaculate??
and them not staging it correctly?
what was there to do??hmm?
all the kidnapper had to do was remove jonbenet from her bed. THATS IT.
the state of her normal living conditions totally irrelevant.
house keepers have stated on the record what pigs they were.

the only other point I think your trying to imply is why wasn't she left and staged in her bedroom.

that would be a rather interesting kidnapping scene don't you think??

 

[UKGuy]

but it was staged to ramseys version of events???

why are you making the assumption jonbenets room should have been immaculate??
and them not staging it correctly?
what was there to do??hmm?
all the kidnapper had to do was remove jonbenet from her bed. THATS IT.
the state of her normal living conditions totally irrelevant.
house keepers have stated on the record what pigs they were.

the only other point I think your trying to imply is why wasn't she left and staged in her bedroom.

that would be a rather interesting kidnapping scene don't you think??

k-mac,

why are you making the assumption jonbenets room should have been immaculate??

I'm not making that assumption, if I was I would state it.

and them not staging it correctly?

correctly is not the point, was JonBenet's bedroom staged, if not why not?

all the kidnapper had to do was remove jonbenet from her bed. THATS IT.

YOU GOT IT ! Thats the Ramsey line, its a kidnapping, not much else required really. They even wrote a ransom note for you to read, nicee.

There is an asymmetry between the wine-cellar and JonBenet's bedroom staging, e.g. pillow moved, bedding missing or askew, e.g. pillow seen in the kitchen, pink pajama bottoms missing, stuff strewn all over the floor, and according to Kolar BR's pajama bottoms lying soiled on the floor?

JonBenet's bedroom was not staged to match the Ramsey version of events, where it deviates Patsy offers explanations, as she does for JonBenet wearing Burke's longjohns.

The wine-cellar kinda looks like how a kidnapper might leave JonBenet, except for the cutesy photographs and her pink nightgown, its a relatively ordered crime-scene compared with the mess in JonBenet's bedroom, particularly her bed, which should really look like someone was sleeping in it !

The red flag is not my subjective opinions on the state of her bedroom, despite LHP's remarks, but the lack of staging, period !

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[k-mac]

Here is a question for all sleuthers who wish to solve the case: If the case is PDI and PR killed JonBenet for whatever reason then wrote the RN and staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar, why did she not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the Ramsey version of events?

Recap: Patsy puts JonBenet to bed after dressing her in Burke's longjohns, despite a drawer full of suitable pajamas, so thats JonBenet tucked in.

Fast forward to the next morning and the bedroom is a mess, bedclothes are missing, stuff is strewn all over the floor, JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, the surface of her bed is all askew with bed items.

Did the intruder do all this, if so why, as I thought he just entered the bedroom scooped JonBenet up, as she slept, and took her down to the basement?

So Patsy fabricated a crime-scene down in the basement that was consistent with the RN and her tale about putting JonBenet to bed, but JonBenet's bedroom, the mes, how come?

Why did Patsy not stage JonBenet's bedroom as she did the wine-cellar?

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you are making that assumption.
as per highlighted your post.

:banghead::banghead:

 

[UKGuy]

you are making that assumption.
as per highlighted your post.

:banghead::banghead:

k-mac,
Not really, its simply the contrast between two locations that are central to kidnapping scenario. Disorder might be a better word than messy, which has moral undertones as does imacculate, i.e. its not an assumption of prior cleanliness, its the obvious absence of staging that conforms with the Ramsey's version of events. LHP's observations and yours, i.e. house keepers have stated on the record what pigs they were. which underlines it.

You could claim the pigsty was the staging?

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[BBB167893]

Here is a question for all sleuthers who wish to solve the case: If the case is PDI and PR killed JonBenet for whatever reason then wrote the RN and staged JonBenet in the wine-cellar, why did she not stage JonBenet's bedroom to match the Ramsey version of events?

Recap: Patsy puts JonBenet to bed after dressing her in Burke's longjohns, despite a drawer full of suitable pajamas, so thats JonBenet tucked in.

Fast forward to the next morning and the bedroom is a mess, bedclothes are missing, stuff is strewn all over the floor, JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms are missing, the surface of her bed is all askew with bed items.

Did the intruder do all this, if so why, as I thought he just entered the bedroom scooped JonBenet up, as she slept, and took her down to the basement?

So Patsy fabricated a crime-scene down in the basement that was consistent with the RN and her tale about putting JonBenet to bed, but JonBenet's bedroom, the mes, how come?

Why did Patsy not stage JonBenet's bedroom as she did the wine-cellar?

.

Wow. Good question. Is it possible that the bedroom as found IS the staging? I don't know.

 

[UKGuy]

Wow. Good question. Is it possible that the bedroom as found IS the staging? I don't know.

Since Patsy included some answers about JonBenet's bedroom, e.g. could not find JonBenet's pajama bottoms, in her version of events I reckon the bedroom is whats left after the R's did a quick sweep through?

Someone had to since there is stuff missing, and JonBenet never removed it. The unanswered question is : was there a pair of Bloomingdale's size-6 , Wednesday Day-of-the-Week underwear found in JonBenet's underwear drawer, downstairs in the basement or in the dirty linen basket?

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