Random things about this case...

[SheBoss]

OK, I have a few random questions that I hope some of you can help me with, please?
BTW - I'm still reading the trials and such. I just finished with Jessie's, read through the hearings for Baldwyn and Echols and have just started on the B and E trial. So I'm sure I'll have plenty more.

1. Jessie's confessions: In all of his confessions, he has never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran and he chased and caught him. He states that he was farther away from the other 4 people. Could this be the reason Moore's body was found further away in the ditch than the other 2? This is a sticking point with me.

2. Jessie's confession #1: The place I'm speaking of is when he's telling the officers that the killing was done around noon, then he says, "Well after, all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon, then they called me at 9 o'clock that night, they called me." I'm sure you are all aware of this statement as it was brought out by Gitchell at JM's trial. I have studied this as well as listened to the audio many, many times. The "that night" sounds like a slip up to me. As in, he knew it was at night, but was trying to throw off the officers and messed up in this 1 statement. What do you all make of this?

3. It has been stated in both trials that there were 2 officers helping with the search after 8 and 9:25. They both state they made some other calls, and went off duty around 11ish. Did no other officers take their place? Did the WMPD just say, "OK, parents, you're on your own until morning?" Why were no other officers dispatched to help out with this? And as Gitchell said on the stand at JM's trial, why was he not notified of 3 missing boys until that next morning? I'm hoping police officers or someone familiar with their policies on missing children can help me out here.

 

[justthinkin]

OK, I have a few random questions that I hope some of you can help me with, please?
BTW - I'm still reading the trials and such. I just finished with Jessie's, read through the hearings for Baldwyn and Echols and have just started on the B and E trial. So I'm sure I'll have plenty more.

1. Jessie's confessions: In all of his confessions, he has never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran and he chased and caught him. He states that he was farther away from the other 4 people. Could this be the reason Moore's body was found further away in the ditch than the other 2? This is a sticking point with me.

2. Jessie's confession #1: The place I'm speaking of is when he's telling the officers that the killing was done around noon, then he says, "Well after, all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon, then they called me at 9 o'clock that night, they called me." I'm sure you are all aware of this statement as it was brought out by Gitchell at JM's trial. I have studied this as well as listened to the audio many, many times. The "that night" sounds like a slip up to me. As in, he knew it was at night, but was trying to throw off the officers and messed up in this 1 statement. What do you all make of this?

3. It has been stated in both trials that there were 2 officers helping with the search after 8 and 9:25. They both state they made some other calls, and went off duty around 11ish. Did no other officers take their place? Did the WMPD just say, "OK, parents, you're on your own until morning?" Why were no other officers dispatched to help out with this? And as Gitchell said on the stand at JM's trial, why was he not notified of 3 missing boys until that next morning? I'm hoping police officers or someone familiar with their policies on missing children can help me out here.

Sheboss,

In answer to your questions....
1. I think so, and it is the most logical conclusion, IMO.
2. I do believe Jessie made a Freudian slip at that instant. The time frame he gave for the murders happened while he was protected by alibi, and he knew it. His original intent was to nail Echols and
Baldwin. Instead, he slipped up and incriminated himself.

3. Good question. I also find that odd. My only suggestion would be that possibly after a certain time of night the county sheriff's dept. took over for the city. Maybe someone else knows for certain.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

OK, I have a few random questions that I hope some of you can help me with, please?
BTW - I'm still reading the trials and such. I just finished with Jessie's, read through the hearings for Baldwyn and Echols and have just started on the B and E trial. So I'm sure I'll have plenty more.

1. Jessie's confessions: In all of his confessions, he has never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran and he chased and caught him. He states that he was farther away from the other 4 people. Could this be the reason Moore's body was found further away in the ditch than the other 2? This is a sticking point with me.

2. Jessie's confession #1: The place I'm speaking of is when he's telling the officers that the killing was done around noon, then he says, "Well after, all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon, then they called me at 9 o'clock that night, they called me." I'm sure you are all aware of this statement as it was brought out by Gitchell at JM's trial. I have studied this as well as listened to the audio many, many times. The "that night" sounds like a slip up to me. As in, he knew it was at night, but was trying to throw off the officers and messed up in this 1 statement. What do you all make of this?

3. It has been stated in both trials that there were 2 officers helping with the search after 8 and 9:25. They both state they made some other calls, and went off duty around 11ish. Did no other officers take their place? Did the WMPD just say, "OK, parents, you're on your own until morning?" Why were no other officers dispatched to help out with this? And as Gitchell said on the stand at JM's trial, why was he not notified of 3 missing boys until that next morning? I'm hoping police officers or someone familiar with their policies on missing children can help me out here.

1) Jessie knew that Michael's body was found away from the other two. It was public knowledge by the time of his arrest, and I think that he may have been trying to make his story believable. Also, the distance between the bodies of Chris and Stevie and that of Michael was only a few feet.

2) His syntax is a bit confusing, but I believe he was indicating the night after the murders when he said "that night" because it was right after the interrogator asked him about the phone call he said he got at 9 pm. It's interesting that everything he said was not recorded or even taken down in notes. That makes me wonder what he said for all the rest of the time. We only have 46 minutes of recorded responses, but he was in police custody much longer than that. He was picked up at about 9:30 am on June 3, 1993. The original statement was recorded, IIRC, at about 2:45. That's over five hours. Part of the time I realize that he was submitting to a polygraph, but that certainly didn't take five hours! What was he saying the rest of the time? Then, after the initial statement, the police go to get an arrest warrant, but the judge (Pal Rainey) refuses to issue warrants based on Jessie's original statement. So, the police need a "clarification" statement before arrest warrants are issued. I find that very odd, especially since one of the things that needed clarification is the very time discrepancy you are questioning.

3) Unbelievable, but true. The only explanation that I've ever heard for this monumental mistake is that "someone" forgot to report to the new shift that the boys were missing. Pretty lame, I agree, but that's all there is on that situation to my knowledge. However, what that means is that no LE was searching for the boys during the 11 - 7 shift.

 

[Pensfan]

1) Jessie knew that Michael's body was found away from the other two. It was public knowledge by the time of his arrest, and I think that he may have been trying to make his story believable. Also, the distance between the bodies of Chris and Stevie and that of Michael was only a few feet.

Shortened for brevity-

Not true.

In the crime scene notes, an estimate is made that Moore's body was found 25 feet north of Branch's body. This is consistent with Jessie's many confessions where he never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran, and he chased and caught him. Jessie stated that he was farther away from the other 4 people and this is what the crime scene notes show.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/crime_scene_notes_dictated.html

 

[Pensfan]

There is a continued ongoing effort to raise money for the three freed men, primarily for their living expenses but also for the continued efforts of the defense team to gain their exoneration. Jessie's recent need for money to get his electricity turned on was met, for example.

Are you certain it was the WM3.org Defense Fund, which is completely controlled by Damien Echol's wife, that coughed up $300 for Jessie to turn on his electricity? Are you sure it wasn't a kind individual donor who gave Jessie the necessary $300? Was it 2 or 3 weeks that Jessie spent without electricity? Are Damien and Lorri still taking that expensive vacation in New Zealand? How many years has it been since Lorri, Damien's wife, was employed?

From Wikipedia:
(There were concerns) about financial opacity and irregularities associated with the Damien Echols Trust Account, which seemed to be getting all the funds raised by Echol's wife, Lorri Davis and WM3.org. These concerns were shared by Dan Stidham, Jessie Misskelley's original attorney, now a judge, and confirmed by Jason Baldwin's attorney, John T. Philipsborn. The WM3IP demanded transparency and accountability in WM3.org's fundraising process, so that all three wrongly convicted men could benefit from financial donations, not just one. In fact, according to WM3IP's website at the time, very little of the donated funds collected by Lorri Davis via the WM3.org website had made its way to the defense teams for Misskelley and Baldwin, the "forgotten" other two members of the WM3. Stidham called this lack of fairness in the defense fund distribution "an injustice inside an injustice."
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Duda"]Kelly Duda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Shortened for brevity-

Not true.

In the crime scene notes, an estimate is made that Moore's body was found 25 feet north of Branch's body. This is consistent with Jessie's many confessions where he never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran, and he chased and caught him. Jessie stated that he was farther away from the other 4 people and this is what the crime scene notes show.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/crime_scene_notes_dictated.html

IMO, 25 feet is simply not a substantial distance to qualify as "running off" from a group. The separation between the two bodies and the one body is not enough to think that they were killed in different locations. Even if you believe Jessie, he said he brought Michael back to Damien and Jason. So, that argument simply doesn't hold water.

 

[justthinkin]

Okay, let's hear it in feet and inches or yards. How far would an eight year old have to run for his life before YOU, CR think it's constitutes running off from the murderers killing his friends and the murderer trying to kill him?

This I've got to read!

 

[claudicici]

OK, I have a few random questions that I hope some of you can help me with, please?
BTW - I'm still reading the trials and such. I just finished with Jessie's, read through the hearings for Baldwyn and Echols and have just started on the B and E trial. So I'm sure I'll have plenty more.

1. Jessie's confessions: In all of his confessions, he has never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran and he chased and caught him. He states that he was farther away from the other 4 people. Could this be the reason Moore's body was found further away in the ditch than the other 2? This is a sticking point with me.

2. Jessie's confession #1: The place I'm speaking of is when he's telling the officers that the killing was done around noon, then he says, "Well after, all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon, then they called me at 9 o'clock that night, they called me." I'm sure you are all aware of this statement as it was brought out by Gitchell at JM's trial. I have studied this as well as listened to the audio many, many times. The "that night" sounds like a slip up to me. As in, he knew it was at night, but was trying to throw off the officers and messed up in this 1 statement. What do you all make of this?
.

1.As far as Jessie's confession goes I don't understand why Aaron's statement isn't getting the same credibility as Jessie's.He's also giving incredible details,he also incriminates himself.I have read that to this day they have confused that boy so badly he doesn't know whether he was there or not,I think if someone believes Jessie's story ,shouldn't they also believe Aaron's story?
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/aaronh13094.html
2.Jessie uses the word "night" for the very first time here.This is immedeately after it is suggested to him and results in the second taping ,the clarification.
"RIDGE: It was like earlier in the day, but you don't know exactly what time, okay,
cause I've gotten some real confusion with the times that you're telling me, but now, this 9 o'clock in the evening call that you got, explain that to me. "
....up to this point Jessie claimed the call was a 9 AM !!!!
it's right after Ridge throws this out Jessie starts saying "at night"

 

[Cappuccino]

1. Jessie's confessions: In all of his confessions, he has never waivered that he had Moore, Moore ran and he chased and caught him. He states that he was farther away from the other 4 people. Could this be the reason Moore's body was found further away in the ditch than the other 2? This is a sticking point with me.

Its a sticking point with me too, only the other way around - its one of the reasons I'm sure Jessie's confession is false. He says Michael took off running "towards the houses", later specifying that this is in the direction of the pipe bridge. That means Jessie has Michael running away from the crime scene in the exact opposite direction to where he was found. That doesn't make any sense for a start.

Besides, he then continues, "Yes, he run out there and I caught him and brought him back, and I took off." Well, if he brought him back, he should have been found with the other two, not 25 feet away.

The most logical explanation for that is that the whole town already knew Michael had been found apart from the other two, and some may have surmised that this meant he had tried to run away. Jessie just rehashes that along with alot of other things he's heard around town.

 

[claudicici]

I am almost convinced that Vickie Hutchinson has a lot to do with concocting the stories with both Aaron and Jessie. Remember she had Jessie spending the night supposedly to protect her from Marc Byers.I think she was feeding stories to both Jessie and Aaron because she was a) scared of LE and b) hoping for the reward money.
Little did she know that both boys would implicate themselves.She thought she could trick Damien into saying something incriminating but that did not work.
You can't tell me she let jessie spend the night with a gun after her son made statements that Jessie did all these things to him.That boy loved Jessie and was devastated when they arrested him.

 

[Cappuccino]

Getting Jessie to stay the night was because Vicki, like many others in West Memphis, had managed to convince herself that the local Satanist cult was going to kill two more on the next full moon. That was also the reason for the WMPD's desparate rush to close this case within a month.

So - you get a member of a Satanic cult which is looking for two more victims to stay in your house overnight with you and your 8 year old son the night before a full moon. Yeah...no.

 

[claudicici]

she did later on claim she was afraid of Marc Byers,Aaron had to sign not to implicate him and he was buying gifts for Aaron.....
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/vicki_h_exhibit_c.html

 

[Cappuccino]

That's an interesting statement. I didn't know Vicki Hutcheson bought drugs off Melissa Byers, or that Aaron Hutcheson had been polygraphed.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

Okay, let's hear it in feet and inches or yards. How far would an eight year old have to run for his life before YOU, CR think it's constitutes running off from the murderers killing his friends and the murderer trying to kill him?

This I've got to read!

My point was that, if Jessie is to be believed (as another poster noted), the bodies would have been found together. The only reason Jessie came up with the statement about Michael running was (again, as another poster noted), because of all the rumors, etc. that were rampant in the community from the time of the murders and for the entire almost-month between the murders and Jessie's questioning and arrest. However, if someone were running away, I would think that they would run farther than 25 feet, especially from a drunk teenager, as Jessie claimed he was. Bottom line, the fact that Michael's body was found slightly apart from the other two in no way corroborates Jessie's story of him running off and certainly doesn't contribute any credence to the erroneous belief that the WMFree murdered the little boys.

 

[Cappuccino]

Wrt Vicki Hutchinson, there's an interesting post by Todd Moore over on the Farm board. He says that "at the time of the crime she lived just down the street 6-7 houses down from the byers and after the crimes was alway coming over to see what we had heard and after some time saying Aaron was there."

Firstly - what kind of a weirdo hangs around the parents of murdered children pumping them for info about the case? If I had a friend whose child was murdered I'd be there sympathising and looking for ways to be practically helpful, not to see what they knew about the murder investigation. Sheesh.

Secondly - any confession made by anybody in Vicki's circle is now suspect, because any supposedly inside knowledge of the crime could have come from the police via the parents and via Vicki Hutchinson. That applies to both Jessie and Aaron.

Thirdly - I don't trust her at all, and I don't care that she's now on the supporters side, I still think she's a liar. She reminds me of Melissa Huckabee, although I don't suspect Vicki of having gone to the same extreme of actually committing the murder, I do think her determination to insert herself into this investigation - even using her 8 yr old child to do so - is evidence of a disturbed mind.

 

[claudicici]

ITA,what she did to her child is unforgivable,IMO,I don't trust her at all either.I do think the Byers connection is interesting.I always suspected that Aaron and the boys did witness something having to do with Byers in the beginning....I don't know but I do think she is the key to solving this crime.she was deep inside of the investigation,she knew what was going on there....

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Anyone who recants their testimony years after the actual trial or changes their testimony to me is not credible. I doubt that any Judge would allow that sort of testimony. The Prosecutor and Judge are the ones who have an oath to uphold justice and seek the truth. The Defense on the other hand are not tied to that oath. They are hired to create reasonable doubt and do not have to uphold the law. I'm not saying that they can break the law, but many, many times they really push that envelope.

 

[Cappuccino]

And I'm afraid prosecutors also frequently push the envelope and fail to live up to their oath.

Anyway, the point about Vicki Hutchinson is that her testimony was unreliable from the outset. She was inserting herself into a murder inquiry when she had no basis for being there, pretending she knew all kinds of things when she didn't.

I also don't believe a word Aaron says. I think he got fed lies by his mother and also probably prompted by leading questions from the police. Aaron Hutchinson reminds me of the Pendle Witch Child...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013fj47

 

[Wishbone]

Anyone who recants their testimony years after the actual trial or changes their testimony to me is not credible. I doubt that any Judge would allow that sort of testimony. The Prosecutor and Judge are the ones who have an oath to uphold justice and seek the truth. The Defense on the other hand are not tied to that oath. They are hired to create reasonable doubt and do not have to uphold the law. I'm not saying that they can break the law, but many, many times they really push that envelope.

The case of Kenny Waters is just one example of lying witnesses of which some recanted their testimony many years later. However, he was not cleared of the crime until newer dna testing proved him innocent. Tragic case that took 18 years of this man's life.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Kenny_Waters.php

 

[claudicici]

And I'm afraid prosecutors also frequently push the envelope and fail to live up to their oath.

Anyway, the point about Vicki Hutchinson is that her testimony was unreliable from the outset. She was inserting herself into a murder inquiry when she had no basis for being there, pretending she knew all kinds of things when she didn't.

I also don't believe a word Aaron says. I think he got fed lies by his mother and also probably prompted by leading questions from the police. Aaron Hutchinson reminds me of the Pendle Witch Child...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b013fj47

I think it's interesting how his statements progress.first there's that stuff about 5 guys doing all sorts of crazy things in the woods and it's definitely not Jessie.Aaron is scared of Byers and thinks he killed the kids.
Then he starts claiming he was there and starts implicating Damien,Jason and his friend Jessie.he starts out being the hero that fought off the perps and got away.Ultimately he implicates himself as both a victim and perpetrator.
No matter if he really ever did see something strange going on in the woods both his mom and the investigators were screwing undoubtedly with his head.Not only did he have to deal with the death of his friends,his mom's drug use he was also supposed to be the hero,the one who solves the crime,what an unimaginable burden to carry for a child,he lied to please everyone and is traumatized for life.