Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Charlie09]

They are not whispers, they are statements describing their experiences. Where has there been whispering?

Partial memories - the memories seem pretty good, and where they're not can be attributed to the fact HE DRUGGED THEM.

Bringing it into the legal system is done in order to incarcerate. BC will not be incarcerated, so imo, his punishment of losing a few $$ compared to his mass of wealth, and damage to his reputation is very small and something he has brought on himself by his own actions.

The nature of the rape experience - the shame involved, the fear of repercussions for accusing a powerful man, the fear of being disbelieved (which is precisely what happened for those who did tell others) - means that the majority of rapes go unreported and that it can take years to report. The legal system falls far short of being able to prosecute under these circumstances.

As for the stories being verified, by the time 19 women come forward with similar stories of sexual assaults by BC, that seems like a lot of verification to me.

IMO


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Then it should go to court - that's our legal system.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Andrea Constand took it to court. All the women set to testify on her behalf were willing to take it to court. Bill Cosby is the one who chose NOT to have his day in court by settling instead.

So it's a little disingenuous, IMO, to keep repeating that he's never had his day in court.

 

[Boodles]

Then it should go to court - that's our legal system.

You're not really saying that these women should not be allowed to speak of the assaults against them, are you? You're not suggesting that they should only reveal this to people within the "legal system," right?

(Although no doubt Cosby was counting on them keeping quiet to protect his cover...)

I'm glad this is the USA and we can speak freely if we choose to, and in these women's cases, when they mustered up the courage to do so.

 

[Slebby]

Then it should go to court - that's our legal system.

I'm wondering if you've read much about rape culture lately. As I said, one unfortunate aspect of the crime of rape versus, say, the crime of burglary, is that the victim is statistically much less likely to call the police 5 minutes after the crime has occurred. Why? Victim shaming (what was she wearing? Was she drinking? Had she given him the wrong idea? Etc.), personal blaming (maybe I gave him the wrong idea, I shouldn't have been drinking), fear of being disbelieved, fear of consequences from the rapist, etc.

All this is to say that, with the current system of justice, such as a statue of limitations, rape is a crime that is statically unlikely to be prosecuted.

You personally may feel you can only believe BC committed these acts if he is tried in a court of law. I, on the other hand, do not need to wait for the crimes to be aired in a court of law. I regard 19 allegations revealing a common MO, spread out over decades as convincing evidence. I am not a court of law. My being convinced does not empower me to incarcerate BC. The court of public opinion does not have the power to incarcerate BC. The worst judgment he will experience is being outed for what he has done.

The fact that the statute of limitations is up on these crimes, and that he therefore cannot be tried does not cause me to conclude that he therefore did not do it. It causes me to conclude he will not be in jeopardy of criminal record or incarceration.

IMO


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[Curious Me]

Could Bill Cosby Face Rape Charges?
http://www.people.com/article/bill-...+people/headlines+(PEOPLE.com:+Top+Headlines)

"There are no statue of limitations in New York when it comes to first-degree rape," University of Illinois College of Law professor Robin Wilson tells PEOPLE. "You could be 100 and they could still come after you."

 

[Slebby]

Could Bill Cosby Face Rape Charges?
http://www.people.com/article/bill-...+people/headlines+(PEOPLE.com:+Top+Headlines)

"There are no statue of limitations in New York when it comes to first-degree rape," University of Illinois College of Law professor Robin Wilson tells PEOPLE. "You could be 100 and they could still come after you."

Thanks for this article. It illustrates perfectly the difficulties involved in prosecuting rape under any circumstances.

IMO


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[Donjeta]

Then it should go to court- that's our legal system.

The legal system ensures that he cannot be incarcerated, fined, forced to pay damages etc without due process. It does not give him the inalienable birthright to a spotless, perfect reputation nor the right to have everyone think that he is not a creep.

He could have challenged the women in court in 2005 but he chose not to and settled instead.

The legal system is there for him: if he feels he has been defamed he's got the resources to sue everyone.

 

[CuriousPortlander]

Bill Cosby’s legacy now in doubt

As a cloud of allegations continues to close in around the popular comedian and social critic, colleges that once showered Cosby with accolades are backing away from him. NBC’s Kate Snow reports.

VIDEO at link below.


http://www.today.com/video/today/56513793/#56513749

 

[Donjeta]

One of the women says in the video that they have the power of words and he's got the power of silence

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

EXCLUSIVE 'I'm emotionally scarred by that man Cosby': Janice Dickinson says she's devastated at being called a liar by comic's lawyer over rape claims

‘He pestered me with calls when I was in rehab’, she added: ‘He sent me red roses in rehab – how did he get my number and know I was in rehab if he didn’t know me?'."

"Janice added: ‘A lot of women are championing the cause and giving me support, but the other half want to preserve his legacy, for what?'

"The ghostwriter of her book, Pablo Fenjves, said Janice told him about the attack – but admits he told her they could not print it."

"He told In Touch: 'Janice told me this story years ago, when I was helping her with her first book, 'No Lifeguard on Duty.’

"She told me that Bill Cosby had invited her to Tahoe to talk to her about her career, but he had other plans."

‘She shared many of the details with me, and she was visibly shaken by the memory, but I told her that we wouldn't be able to use any of it."

'I knew the lawyers at HarperCollins weren't going to risk it. 'It'll be your word against his,' I told her. 'It doesn't matter that every word is true. He's a powerful man, and he'll do whatever it takes to protect himself.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...comic-s-lawyer-rape-claims.html#ixzz3KOmmc9g3

 

[Charlie09]

I'm wondering if you've read much about rape culture lately. As I said, one unfortunate aspect of the crime of rape versus, say, the crime of burglary, is that the victim is statistically much less likely to call the police 5 minutes after the crime has occurred. Why? Victim shaming (what was she wearing? Was she drinking? Had she given him the wrong idea? Etc.), personal blaming (maybe I gave him the wrong idea, I shouldn't have been drinking), fear of being disbelieved, fear of consequences from the rapist, etc.

All this is to say that, with the current system of justice, such as a statue of limitations, rape is a crime that is statically unlikely to be prosecuted.

You personally may feel you can only believe BC committed these acts if he is tried in a court of law. I, on the other hand, do not need to wait for the crimes to be aired in a court of law. I regard 19 allegations revealing a common MO, spread out over decades as convincing evidence. I am not a court of law. My being convinced does not empower me to incarcerate BC. The court of public opinion does not have the power to incarcerate BC. The worst judgment he will experience is being outed for what he has done.

The fact that the statute of limitations is up on these crimes, and that he therefore cannot be tried does not cause me to conclude that he therefore did not do it. It causes me to conclude he will not be in jeopardy of criminal record or incarceration.

IMO


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I am not saying he did or didn't. I've only read press accounts of it...I am saying trying by press is not the right way to determine guilt...and not one self righteous poster really knows what happened.

 

[Trino]

Andrea Constand took it to court. All the women set to testify on her behalf were willing to take it to court. Bill Cosby is the one who chose NOT to have his day in court by settling instead.

So it's a little disingenuous, IMO, to keep repeating that he's never had his day in court.

She settled and by doing so, refused to go to court. This was her choice: money vs justice.

 

[Nova]

She settled and by doing so, refused to go to court. This was her choice: money vs justice.

BOTH SIDES agreed to the out-of-court settlement. But the claim was that we can have no opinion on Cosby's behavior because he hasn't had his day in court. And the correct response is that it was Cosby's choice to avoid a courtroom. It's not as if he's been demanding his day in court and such a day has been denied him.

 

[Nova]

I am not saying he did or didn't. I've only read press accounts of it...I am saying trying by press is not the right way to determine guilt...and not one self righteous poster really knows what happened.

Well, let's do the math: we've heard from 19 women claiming they were assaulted; we've heard from some of their friends who either witnessed an assault or were told about it immediately afterwards; and we've heard from an employee who delivered Cosby's pay-offs to women he had allegedly abused. I don't think it's "self-righteous" to form an opinion with so much testimony, even if it wasn't delivered under oath.

(Now if the issue were criminal penalties, then of course Cosby would have a constitutional right to confront his accusers. But as far as i know, no criminal proceedings are pending.)

[modsnip]

 

[IzzyBlanche]

She settled and by doing so, refused to go to court. This was her choice: money vs justice.

And Bill Cosby's choice was to offer money to avoid court. That was his choice as well: money vs. justice.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

"When it comes to Bill Cosby, who has recently faced allegations of sexual assault and misbehavior from more than a dozen women, some of them involving drugging and rape, the catchphrase might be this: Follow the sanctimony.

I'm not just talking about the sanctimony of the actual Cosby, who gave speeches censuring lower-class blacks, accusing them of embracing ghetto culture and playing the victim rather than examining their own failures. These appearances, which began in 2004, may have represented the most literal manifestation of Cosby's penchant for self-righteousness, but they were hardly without tonal precedent."

More at link: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-e...e-allegations-sanctimony-20141127-column.html

 

[Nova]

Thanks, Izzy. It's nice to see "self-righteous" used correctly.

 

[Charlie09]

Well, let's do the math: we've heard from 19 women claiming they were assaulted; we've heard from some of their friends who either witnessed an assault or were told about it immediately afterwards; and we've heard from an employee who delivered Cosby's pay-offs to women he had allegedly abused. I don't think it's "self-righteous" to form an opinion with so much testimony, even if it wasn't delivered under oath.

(Now if the issue were criminal penalties, then of course Cosby would have a constitutional right to confront his accusers. But as far as i know, no criminal proceedings are pending.)

[modsnip].

the self righteous was directed at the very idea someone not go along with the group think on this thread...if he raped all the women claimed he should be criminally prosecuted ..the reason he wasn't is obvious. [modsnip]

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Very interesting read. Sorry if already posted.

"But as Cosby was saying 'Come on, People' (the name of his book admonishing specific black populations), the barbershop conversation about Cosby started turning toward his basic hypocrisy."

...

For the last decade, Dr. Cosby has spoken about black people in general and black men specifically stepping up 'to their responsibilities.'

But if William H. Cosby Jr., PhD. is serious about what he has been telling us, it’s time for him to take his own words to heart and to stop hiding behind lawyers and silence."

Link: http://crosscut.com/2014/11/28/cult...bill-cosby-time-stand-and-face-lights/?page=1

 

[lawstudent]

Reminder again that you can't settle criminal charges. He settled civil charges, avoiding a civil trial and probably getting confidentiality in return. But if the women wanted to go forward and the prosecutor felt there was a case, he could have been prosecuted. I just feel that sometimes those concepts get confused and it makes our legal system look atrocious if people perceive you can buy your way out of criminal responsibility that easily if you have tons of money.