Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Trino]

One of the women who received a check says the check was just generosity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bi...osby-money-orders-says-they-were-just-n255051

“It is a shame that Dr. William Cosby’s generosity is being questioned and maligned,” said Alva Chinn, a model and actress who appeared in several episodes of “The Cosby Show.” “The source could have asked me first before releasing these money orders.”

One final question about the Cosby accusers who accepted the money. Why did they keep the money (those that did)? And, depending on how much they previously accepted, does that mean they now get more money through a civil case award?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Donjeta - I love reading your posts.....you are so articulate and always the voice of reason. I'm glad you're following this thread!

 

[Trino]

Is Cosby done? Is Woody Allen done? Is Bill Clinton done?

On another note, come to Austin if you think Lance Armstrong is done.

 

[Catmommy]

Is Cosby done? Is Woody Allen done? Is Bill Clinton done?

On another note, come to Austin if you think Lance Armstrong is done.

Bill Clinton? Really?

 

[Donjeta]

One of the women who received a check says the check was just generosity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bi...osby-money-orders-says-they-were-just-n255051

“It is a shame that Dr. William Cosby’s generosity is being questioned and maligned,” said Alva Chinn, a model and actress who appeared in several episodes of “The Cosby Show.” “The source could have asked me first before releasing these money orders.”

One final question about the Cosby accusers who accepted the money. Why did they keep the money (those that did)? And, depending on how much they previously accepted, does that mean they now get more money through a civil case award?

I think someone would have to file a civil suit first.

Is Cosby done? Is Woody Allen done? Is Bill Clinton done?

On another note, come to Austin if you think Lance Armstrong is done.

It probably depends on your definition of done. The impression I get from the public discussion there are many people who are done with Bill Cosby but judging from the audience responses from the Florida show there are also lots of fans who couldn't care less about the allegations. Not only people who didn't believe it but there were even some who implied that even if it's true it wouldn't be such a big deal.

 

[Charlie09]

Probably because he wasn't wearing a condom or cleaning up after himself, if you really want to know.

I missed that in the few articles I read, I will go back and see if I see that referenced.

 

[lawstudent]

so, if more than one person accuses anyone of anything it should be accepted at face value and that person shouldn't have to answer in the legal system, just the press?

These are different issues though. While I totally understand the concern you are getting at, "innocent until proven guilty" is all about conviction and imprisonment. It's not set up to be the standard for what the public thinks. The public is often wrong about a lot of things, but that's life. Life doesn't operate on a "beyond a reasonable doubt standard", or we'd all be in a lot of trouble. The reason we take it so seriously in the legal context is because of the severity of deprivation of liberty - giving the benefit of the doubt is not always the best thing in all contexts, although I know how damaging false beliefs can be. Sexual assault cases are generally complicated, but outside of a courtroom, it's not the kind of issue that people can demand 95% proof on. I wouldn't go around declaring someone was a sexual predator if I did not have direct evidence of that, but if I had kids, I sure as hell wouldn't be letting them spend time with him/her just because it hadn't been proven.

I don't like how the media handles these things, whether the person is guilty or not, because they make it so sensational that it can be hard to differentiate fact from fiction. I think people need to know about these things, but I don't think this demonizing of Bill Cosby and everything related to him is the way to do it. Everyone keeps talking about how easy it was for him to betray people because of the image he portrayed as Cliff Huxtable and in the media. The solution to that is not to portray everyone as evil or good. That's what allows this to happen. Trying to get rid of all of the reruns and his art collection seems to reinforce the idea that a predator can't produce things that people enjoy and that everything he does is obviously tainted. Same as the idea that all victims must be angels to be victims. People are complicated, and that's how these things happen. Sexual predators often use confusion as a weapon, and it's okay to admit you appreciated one aspect of a person while abhoring another.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

so, if more than one person accuses anyone of anything it should be accepted at face value and that person shouldn't have to answer in the legal system, just the press?

I listed the reasons I am not accepting the accusations "at face value." There is evidence that supports the women's claims.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I missed that in the few articles I read, I will go back and see if I see that referenced.

Janice Dickinson

"The next morning I remember waking up with my pajamas off and there was semen in between my legs."

http://www.etonline.com/news/154076_janice_dickinson_details_alleged_bill_cosby_sexual_assault/

 

[BirdycatNY]

I don't like how the media handles these things, whether the person is guilty or not, because they make it so sensational that it can be hard to differentiate fact from fiction. I think people need to know about these things, but I don't think this demonizing of Bill Cosby and everything related to him is the way to do it. Everyone keeps talking about how easy it was for him to betray people because of the image he portrayed as Cliff Huxtable and in the media. The solution to that is not to portray everyone as evil or good. That's what allows this to happen. Trying to get rid of all of the reruns and his art collection seems to reinforce the idea that a predator can't produce things that people enjoy and that everything he does is obviously tainted. Same as the idea that all victims must be angels to be victims. People are complicated, and that's how these things happen. Sexual predators often use confusion as a weapon, and it's okay to admit you appreciated one aspect of a person while abhoring another.

Normally, sure the media may sensationalize sometimes...but in this case and other rape/sexual assault cases in general I strongly disagree. I think that from what we're hearing is that there are reporters that tried to discuss these things but BC squashed it. If I think of other cases like Sandusky, Steubenville, Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Mike Tyson etc it doesn't come across to me as sensationalizing, but more of the media/community are trying to process and uncover what actually happened. I guess I'm not sure other posters are suggesting that just because some are not tried and convicted like Woody Allen that we shouldn't question them. Think about what is going on in places like India where girls are raped and it's even more difficult and potentially dangerous for them to come forward. Do I want to live in a world where the media doesn't talk about these things? No. Do I think sometimes that people make up stories? sure. But the % of people who make false claims imo is far less than the # of victims reporting crimes. People shouldn't idolize anyone and understand that one doesn't have to fit a certain mold to be a serial rapist. Seems to me the media could have really put these things out a long time ago and so I have to ask why now? I don't want the facade, if there are actors/singers etc I want to know if they are involved in criminal conduct. jmo

 

[IzzyBlanche]

You are very courageous for sharing this, and for not deleting it even though you are tempted. I have experienced two sexual assaults throughout my life that I chose not to report. I don't know if I made the right decisions or not, probably not. Like you, I carry guilt for not trying to stop potential future assaults. At the time of the first incident, I was very young. I told my then-boyfriend what happened, and he called me a *advertiser censored* and dumped me for "cheating" on him. The second incident happened very recently. I told a very close male friend, who got angry with me and insisted that I must be lying to him about the circumstances. I wasn't. Both times I feel that I had put myself in a dangerous situation by making bad decisions. I know that I didn't ask for or deserve what happened to me, but if I had been smarter it wouldn't have happened. Both times, the people I trusted most didn't believe me, so why would I expect strangers to believe me? I have very conflicting feelings about both incidents. I carry a lot of guilt, anger, shame, self-loathing......it's all very complicated.

I shared that information to say that I understand why some of Cosby's accusers may have been reluctant to come forward until other accusations had been made public. As others have said, I believe that when there is this much smoke, there's bound to be a little fire. Unless you have been the victim of a sexual assault, I don't think you can truly understand that it isn't always a clear cut situation to deal with. Just talking about it to a trusted friend can make you feel ashamed and violated all over again. I can't even imagine talking about it publicly when you know that everything you say and everything you have done in the past is going to be under scrutiny.

BBM for focus. Thank you for sharing this. Your personal experience clearly illustrates the multiple reasons rape victims are reluctant to come forward. To me it's easy to understand why you didn't report what happened--and why anyone in that situation would be reluctant to do so.

And yet still some yammer on and on about why BC's accusers didn't.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

"Constand was semiconscious throughout. She could not give consent to these acts, and she did not. She lost consciousness, and woke around 4 a.m. She felt raw in and around her vagina."


Read more at http://www.phillymag.com/articles/dr-huxtable-mr-hyde/#4G0kuJjQr0ETpOQF.99

 

[lawstudent]

Normally, sure the media may sensationalize...but in this case and other rape/sexual assault cases in general I strongly disagree. I think that from what we're hearing is that there are reporters that tried to discuss these things but BC squashed it. If I think of other cases like Sandusky, Steubenville, Michael Jackson, Woody Allen, Mike Tyson etc it doesn't come across to me as sensationalizing, but more of the media/community are trying to process and uncover what actually happened. I guess I'm not sure other posters are suggesting that just because some are not convicted like Woody Allen that we shouldn't question them. Think about what is going on in places like India where girls are raped and it's even more difficult and potentially dangerous for them to come forward. Do I want to live in a world where the media doesn't talk about these things? No. Do I think sometimes that people make up stories? sure. But the % of people who make false claims imo is far less than the # of victims reporting crimes. People shouldn't idolize anyone and understand that one doesn't have to fit a certain mold to be a serial rapist. Seems to me the media could have really put these things out a long time ago and so I have to ask why now? I don't want the facade, if there are actors/singers etc I want to know if they are involved in criminal conduct. jmo

I agree, but I guess what I'm trying to say is now the media sensationalizes everything such that Bill Cosby rape allegations are on par with both major world events and Kim Kardashian's nude photos. It has a trivializing effect in the opposite way. Regarding Michael Jackson, I agree the coverage of the first allegations was fairly in line with the investigatory objectives of journalism. I don't think most recent coverage has been. Every detail of his life is hyped with the same level of coverage - the last few years of his life, his plastic surgery was getting as much media outrage/scrutiny as the molestation stuff. I'm not saying the media shouldn't cover them, but they are doing so for ratings, not to do the right thing, overall. That is why they didn't cover it as much back then - the incentives were somewhat different. Not because they suddenly realized they were wrong. I do want the media to talk about these things - but accurately, not in sensational soundbites that are barely researched.

I don't believe most claims are false at all - but I do think some posters are saying the public/media shouldn't be portraying Cosby as a rapist without a conviction. I don't like the way things are being reported, but I think it is fine to report that when the allegations are investigated and presented. People who go through the depositions and put together a timeline are doing the right thing. People who just repost quotes from victims and keep tallying them up so they can have a new headline - "How many women are accusing Bill Cosby of rape now?" - are not really contributing.

 

[Donjeta]

If there's one good thing coming out of this, it might be that a few more people realize that there is a difference between a scripted character and the actor portraying it... Cognitive development is always an advantage.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/op...cle_f94b4ca4-7c43-596e-b321-4734e79adee2.html

Cynthia Tucker: Bill Cosby, Cliff Huxtable no longer same man

It was testimony to the show’s star and co-creator, Bill Cosby, that it was eponymous, “The Cosby Show.” He was one of the biggest stars in the entertainment world, beloved for a brand of comedy that was warm, witty and wise, family-friendly and folksy.

It was no accident, either, that his off-screen persona was so often fused with his role as TV’s favorite dad. He drew inspiration for the show from his personal life, and he sought to cultivate an image as a dedicated family man, a father of five in a stable, long-term marriage to the former Camille Hanks.

Cliff Huxtable’s Bill Cosby problem

Huxtable was Hector in Homer’s Iliad — defender of his people but devoid of the darker impulses that characterized his contemporaries.
He was a peaceful father and husband, and his agenda was unification. Hector, like Huxtable, was a mediator in a world that seemed black and white. Huxtable, like Hector, was a hero.
The heroism of Huxtable, however, had an inherent flaw. Huxtable was entwined with the mortal Cosby, and Cosby (it seems) is no god.

http://nypost.com/2014/11/28/cliff-huxtables-bill-cosby-problem/

http://www.nwherald.com/2014/11/26/...myth-is-dead-so-stop-cheering/ac48j90/?page=1

Two standing ovations. That’s what Bill Cosby, in a “Hello Friend” sweatshirt and with a fist clenched above his head in defiance, received Nov. 21 at a performance in his “Bill Cosby 77” tour at a Melbourne, Florida, theater.

This fervid show of blind loyalty was only one shocker in a series of revelations about the man we once thought of as America’s Dad. More than a dozen women, and counting, accusing Cosby of sexual assault. A former employee of NBC studios telling the New York Daily News that he guarded Cosby’s dressing room when models were brought in for “mentoring,” as well as providing copies of the money orders sent to keep them quiet.

http://www.boston.com/news/opinion/...-cosby-lose/sgfGLvP8yvBNtwoW7yTuOK/story.html

Cosby smiled, fathered, and danced his way into America’s heart as Cliff Huxtable, the successful father and doctor on The Cosby Show. Since the show’s completion, Cosby has replicated his Huxtable character in most all of his roles. We know Cliff Huxtable. Until the reruns were pulled, we could see him every day of the week for at least a half hour at a time. But we don’t know Cosby. If this saga continues––if more women come forward, if more details are released, and if Cosby actually has to go to court over any of this––the time that the public spends seeing a Cosby divorced from Cliff Huxtable may sway the court of public opinion.

Patrick O'Connor, chairman of Temple's board of trustees, has not responded to repeated phone calls and e-mails seeking comment.

The vice chair of the Cozen O'Connor law firm represented Cosby in 2005 when his fellow trustee was accused of drugging and assaulting Andrea Constand, a former Temple employee. Thirteen more women had agreed to testify in the case, which was settled.

O'Connor told the Philadelphia Daily News at the time that "what is occurring here is innuendo, false rumor, [and] unidentified witnesses attacking the credibility of a man who's entitled to a fair trial like any other person in America."

Two ethics experts said O'Connor probably should recuse himself from any board discussion about Cosby.

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/educat..._Temple_remains_mum_.html#jT6E1cyEypCUy9Q2.99

 

[Truthy]

One of the women who received a check says the check was just generosity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bi...osby-money-orders-says-they-were-just-n255051

“It is a shame that Dr. William Cosby’s generosity is being questioned and maligned,” said Alva Chinn, a model and actress who appeared in several episodes of “The Cosby Show.” “The source could have asked me first before releasing these money orders.”

One final question about the Cosby accusers who accepted the money. Why did they keep the money (those that did)? And, depending on how much they previously accepted, does that mean they now get more money through a civil case award?

I'm not sure I am understanding your focus on money he gave away before the charges were made. Does that somehow mitigate the drugging aspect of this, as if he purchased permission to do what he wanted with them? It almost sound that way.

Not sure the point of dwelling on what was actually pocket change for Cosby.

 

[lawstudent]

I'm not sure I am understanding your focus on money he gave away before the charges were made. Does that somehow mitigate the drugging aspect of this, as if he purchased permission to do what he wanted with them? It almost sound that way.

Not sure the point of dwelling on what was actually pocket change for Cosby.

Not the person who posted this, but since this is a civil suit, I think anything already paid would be subtracted from anything awarded. Civil suits aren't really about punishment, although there can be punitive damages. It's about compensation. It can't be purchased in advance - settlements don't usually apply to future conduct.

 

[Truthy]

I agree, but I guess what I'm trying to say is now the media sensationalizes everything such that Bill Cosby rape allegations are on par with both major world events and Kim Kardashian's nude photos. It has a trivializing effect in the opposite way.

I'd argue they were trivializing the victims when they largely ignored the case against him years ago. The media are largely bottom feeders, jumping on and off bandwagons in the blink of an eye. I try to avoid those outlets that rely on sensationalism.
I don't blame these women for wanting to get the info out- the way he legal system works for sexual assault victims who know their rapists is appalling. They never had much of a chance of a legal remedy. The other victims stories would not be allowed in a criminal trial, and the drugs he administered and semen mean little when the women agreed to spend time alone with Cosby. It is only when the pattern emerges that the stories become very credible, but individually you would see these women dismissed as "nuts and *advertiser censored*".

 

[Truthy]

Not the person who posted this, but since this is a civil suit, I think anything already paid would be subtracted from anything awarded. Civil suits aren't really about punishment, although there can be punitive damages. It's about compensation. It can't be purchased in advance - settlements don't usually apply to future conduct.

Thanks, but.....I do not think this is why this particular person is obsessed with the money. It seems he thinks it has some significance in defining the relationships he had with these women. Other than he apparently used money or fame as a lure I do not see how it mitigates the allegations made.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

One of the women who received a check says the check was just generosity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bi...osby-money-orders-says-they-were-just-n255051

“It is a shame that Dr. William Cosby’s generosity is being questioned and maligned,” said Alva Chinn, a model and actress who appeared in several episodes of “The Cosby Show.” “The source could have asked me first before releasing these money orders.”

One final question about the Cosby accusers who accepted the money. Why did they keep the money (those that did)? And, depending on how much they previously accepted, does that mean they now get more money through a civil case award?

Angela Leslie received the money BEFORE the alleged assault. And she returned it.

From the article:

Two money orders totaling $1400 are made out to “Angela Leslie,” which is the name of a woman who alleges that Cosby sexually assaulted her in Las Vegas in 1992. Leslie, who said she had only met Cosby once before, told TODAY that Cosby put his hand “where it shouldn’t have been” and she pushed him off. The money orders were dated August 13, 1990.

Leslie told NBC News she got two checks from Cosby and that the money was intended to fly her to see him at an awards show, and also included money for her to spend while there. She said she did not make the trip and returned the money.

 

[LinasK]

the self righteous was directed at the very idea someone not go along with the group think on this thread...if he raped all the women claimed he should be criminally prosecuted ..the reason he wasn't is obvious. [modsnip]

Nope, not obvious! Michael Jackson was taken to court and still managed to beat the charges, even though it was painfully obvious to everyone else in the world, but his star-struck jury that he was a child molester.