Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

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In normal circumstances Bill Cosby would have a great deal to say about Michael Brown, the black teenager shot dead by a white policeman in Ferguson, Missouri. A decade ago Cosby lambasted working-class black communities for effectively choosing victimhood over personal responsibility in precisely such a circumstance.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/01/bill-cosby-ferguson

Editorial debate: two opposing viewpoints
Rape is often a he-said, she-said controversy, painted in hard-to-decipher grays. But when allegations turn into he-said, they-said — with at least 16 women publicly accusing the same man of sexual assault — the balance of believability tips toward the accusers.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...-sexual-assaults-editorials-debates/19720267/
The most shocking thing about the Bill Cosby scandal is the disregard for the presumption of innocence.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opini...-scandal-twitter-editorials-debates/19720269/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...urned-on-bill-cosby-a-day-by-day-account.html
How the World Turned on Bill Cosby: A Day-by-Day Account
From a forgotten story bubbling in the shadows of the entertainment press to a full-scale media hurricane, the story of Bill Cosby shows how modern feeding frenzies are born.

http://www.statepress.com/2014/11/30/the-bill-cosby-scandal-explained/
Over the Thanksgiving weekend, Netflix was positioned to premiere a new stand-up special from comedian Bill Cosby. Titled “Bill Cosby 77,” the special was taped this summer on the 77th birthday of the comedy pioneer, whose NBC hit “The Cosby Show” proved to be very influential in how Americans talked about race in the wake of the civil rights movement.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/11/30/opinion/obeidallah-bill-cosby-what-do-we-want/
I posed this question on social media: What do we want from Bill Cosby now?

The responses revealed an interesting cross section of opinion from men and women on all sides of the issue. And while they varied greatly, a common theme emerged. But before I mention that one, here are some of the often thought-provoking comments I received in response to the question.
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ortrait-from-track-star-to-ugly-sweaters.html
The biographer talking in September:
The New Yorker and The Wall Street Journal reviews both dinged you for not including the sexual assault allegations against Cosby and the fact that he had settled a lawsuit with at least one of the accusers. Why didn’t you include that?

Three reasons: One, I didn’t want to write a tell-all. I wanted to write mostly about his professional career and the impact that has had.

Two, his representatives were very clear that to the degree I did get into his private life that I had to have iron-clad, independent reporting. In the case of his relationship with the mother of Autumn Jackson, who claimed to be his daughter and tried to extort money from him and was eventually convicted, I wrote at length about that case. I obtained court records, and a long, confessional interview he did with Dan Rather that CNN never aired. With the other allegations, there were no other witnesses.

The third reason is that I knew that apart from the legal issues involved, if I got into any detail about those allegations in a he-said-she-said way, it would open the door for everyone who writes about this book to just repeat those allegations, and I didn’t want to be responsible for that.

Did you get the impression that Cosby would litigate anything he found in your book to be controversial?

I got the shot across the bow at the beginning, and I knew from his history that he tended to be very litigious. I knew from his representatives that he was not going to talk about sexual matters. They were clear that if I was going to say anything about it, I had to be on very solid ground. I sent his publicist a galley of the book after it was finished. They weren’t wild about the fact that I was writing about Autumn Jackson, but they didn’t try to make me take it out. They knew I had solid sources. I personally took that as a vindication of the care I had taken in making sure I had solid, independent sourcing.


I can't imagine anyone getting in any legal trouble over sources if they refer to court documents, formerly published DA statements, MSM interviews and that kind of thing that was already in the press before, and remember to include comments from Cosby's lawyers?

It sounds to me like he was scared into silence, it's not like there weren't acceptable sources from the Constand case. Not as proof of rapes but as proof of allegations and proof of legal proceedings. There was a woman accusing him of rape, the case was not prosecuted due to lack of evidence, the civil case was settled and Cosby was never convicted of anything, that sort of thing. Pretty well documented I'd think.
 
Seriously? Ok, I'll be blunt.

When a woman desires sex with her partner, she becomes aroused and lubricating secretions are generated, easing penetration. When a woman is not willfully involved with the sexual act, her vagina is relatively dry, and sexual intercourse in this state can be painful and physically traumatic. The soreness would very likely be noticeable the next day. Any woman who is sexually active knows how she feels inside after the act. I have NO DOUBT that any woman who has been raped knows that she has not just fallen asleep. She knows she has been penetrated.

What you say may be true in many--even most--cases, but we do victims a disservice if we set up "lack of physical response" as a test of rape.

See the following. A certain percentage of female (and male) rape victims experience physical arousal and even orgasm. It doesn't mean they wanted to be raped or that they "enjoyed" it.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ortrait-from-track-star-to-ugly-sweaters.html
The biographer talking in September:



I can't imagine anyone getting in any legal trouble over sources if they refer to court documents, formerly published DA statements, MSM interviews and that kind of thing that was already in the press before, and remember to include comments from Cosby's lawyers?

It sounds to me like he was scared into silence, it's not like there weren't acceptable sources from the Constand case. Not as proof of rapes but as proof of allegations and proof of legal proceedings. There was a woman accusing him of rape, the case was not prosecuted due to lack of evidence, the civil case was settled and Cosby was never convicted of anything, that sort of thing. Pretty well documented I'd think.

I think the writer was afraid of ramifications, even though facts were on his side. It seems when you tangle with powerful people, you tend to lose, which is why IMO most ppl keep their mouths shut.
 
I think the writer was afraid of ramifications, even though facts were on his side. It seems when you tangle with powerful people, you tend to lose, which is why IMO most ppl keep their mouths shut.

Yeah... he seems to have been afraid. But he could consult lawyers of his own to stay on the safe side.

I keep harping on this biographer because I'm channeling my inner journalist and I just find it so intellectually dishonest to omit something like this and write just about what a funny guy ha ha he called me at all hours ha ha. If you can't tell significant chunks of the truth and have to settle for a sanitized advertisement for the person's character I think it would be better to write a novel, not fiction disguised as a biography.
 
Yeah... he seems to have been afraid. But he could consult lawyers of his own to stay on the safe side.

I keep harping on this biographer because I'm channeling my inner journalist and I just find it so intellectually dishonest to omit something like this and write just about what a funny guy ha ha he called me at all hours ha ha. If you can't tell significant chunks of the truth and have to settle for a sanitized advertisement for the person's character I think it would be better to write a novel, not fiction disguised as a biography.

This happens every single day: Sanitized Truth. I think we all do it on some level in our own lives. Fear of ramifications is a huge motivator. Just look at Washington, DC for example and how much stuff is either not reported or swept under the carpet. We tend to "sugar coat" many things in our daily lives, especially with our own accountability and actions on some level.

I know some pretty powerful and important people and know them well. I know the backstories and the truth and it is not always what is put forth in the media. Would I reveal the truths as I know them? No. Heck no. Payback can be a *****.
 
This happens every single day: Sanitized Truth. I think we all do it on some level in our own lives. Fear of ramifications is a huge motivator. Just look at Washington, DC for example and how much stuff is either not reported or swept under the carpet. We tend to "sugar coat" many things in our daily lives, especially with our own accountability and actions on some level.

I know some pretty powerful and important people and know them well. I know the backstories and the truth and it is not always what is put forth in the media. Would I reveal the truths as I know them? No. Heck no. Payback can be a *****.



But you're probably not writing their biographies and only including the nice things about them?

JMO and maybe it's just me but I think if you call yourself a biographer or journalist you owe more to the truth than a regular person who is not in the business of documenting this stuff.

If the truth about Head Honcho can't be said, then why do you have to write his biography just to make him look and feel good? There are other subjects to write about.
 
What you say may be true in many--even most--cases, but we do victims a disservice if we set up "lack of physical response" as a test of rape.

See the following. A certain percentage of female (and male) rape victims experience physical arousal and even orgasm. It doesn't mean they wanted to be raped or that they "enjoyed" it.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

I never set up lack of physical response as a "test of rape". I simply gave a plausible explanation for how someone who has been drugged unconscious and raped (thereby presumably lacking an arousal state) could still know a rape took place in the absence of a memory confirming such.
 
I am also among those who think that Camille should not be part of this discussion. We have no evidence whatsoever that she knew or suspected that her husband is/was a rapist (as has been strongly and repeatedly alleged -- and I believe the allegations completely), so I do not think it fair to imply that she is/was complicit. If anything, I doubt that she knew, for if she did, she would have grounds for a pretty lavish settlement in a divorce, which I would guess she would want if she knew her husband was a rapist.

I have to agree it is unfair, despite the gut feelings any of us have about her. Also, legally pointless as no one ever goes after the wife. Many women have protected their child abusing husbands, obstructed justice, and are legally left off the hook unless they were found to be direct perpetrators too. Usually they want to focus on the one perp, as it makes trying them harder if there is any conspirator to factor in. And lets face it, Bill is unlikely to have criminal charges filed at this point.
 
BBM That's why I donated my uncle's blood money. I didn't want it, but neither did I want him to have it. I wanted him penalized somehow, so I donated it to Bay Area Women Against Rape in his name!

Well done, LinasK! I am proud of you.
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ortrait-from-track-star-to-ugly-sweaters.html
The biographer talking in September:

The New Yorker and The Wall Street Journal reviews both dinged you for not including the sexual assault allegations against Cosby and the fact that he had settled a lawsuit with at least one of the accusers. Why didn’t you include that?

Three reasons: One, I didn’t want to write a tell-all. I wanted to write mostly about his professional career and the impact that has had.

Two, his representatives were very clear that to the degree I did get into his private life that I had to have iron-clad, independent reporting. In the case of his relationship with the mother of Autumn Jackson, who claimed to be his daughter and tried to extort money from him and was eventually convicted, I wrote at length about that case. I obtained court records, and a long, confessional interview he did with Dan Rather that CNN never aired. With the other allegations, there were no other witnesses.

The third reason is that I knew that apart from the legal issues involved, if I got into any detail about those allegations in a he-said-she-said way, it would open the door for everyone who writes about this book to just repeat those allegations, and I didn’t want to be responsible for that.

Did you get the impression that Cosby would litigate anything he found in your book to be controversial?

I got the shot across the bow at the beginning, and I knew from his history that he tended to be very litigious. I knew from his representatives that he was not going to talk about sexual matters. They were clear that if I was going to say anything about it, I had to be on very solid ground. I sent his publicist a galley of the book after it was finished. They weren’t wild about the fact that I was writing about Autumn Jackson, but they didn’t try to make me take it out. They knew I had solid sources. I personally took that as a vindication of the care I had taken in making sure I had solid, independent sourcing.



I can't imagine anyone getting in any legal trouble over sources if they refer to court documents, formerly published DA statements, MSM interviews and that kind of thing that was already in the press before, and remember to include comments from Cosby's lawyers?

It sounds to me like he was scared into silence, it's not like there weren't acceptable sources from the Constand case. Not as proof of rapes but as proof of allegations and proof of legal proceedings. There was a woman accusing him of rape, the case was not prosecuted due to lack of evidence, the civil case was settled and Cosby was never convicted of anything, that sort of thing. Pretty well documented I'd think.

Agreed about the writer being frightened- notice it's nonsense of him to say he is not doing the "he said, she said" thing if he is giving Cosby's side of the story and omitting her side. He could have interviewed her too, but was fine giving the whole world only Cosby's spin on things. To pretend it's being fair or balanced or avoiding the subject by giving voice to only Cosby's side of it is nonsense.
 
What you say may be true in many--even most--cases, but we do victims a disservice if we set up "lack of physical response" as a test of rape.

See the following. A certain percentage of female (and male) rape victims experience physical arousal and even orgasm. It doesn't mean they wanted to be raped or that they "enjoyed" it.

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

What you say is true, but the fact remains that a women would not wake up the next day and have no clue sex had occurred.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Agreed about the writer being frightened- notice it's nonsense of him to say he is not doing the "he said, she said" thing if he is giving Cosby's side of the story and omitting her side. He could have interviewed her too, but was fine giving the whole world only Cosby's spin on things. To pretend it's being fair or balanced or avoiding the subject by giving voice to only Cosby's side of it is nonsense.


Yeah...
http://www.amazon.com/Cosby-Life-Times-Mark-Whitaker/dp/145169797X

The first major biography of an American icon, comedian Bill Cosby. Based on extensive research and in-depth interviews with Cosby and more than sixty of his closest friends and associates, it is a frank, fun and fascinating account of his life and historic legacy.

Frank account?

It needs a disclaimer imo. "It's a frank, fun and fascinating account of the stories told by his friends and minions but the publishers value their juridical backside more than frankness when it comes to disclosing stories that the subject might get mad about."
 
Comedian Bill Cosby quits trustee post at Temple University

“Cosby was a frequent visitor to Temple's sprawling urban campus and often mentioned the school in his act. Temple's silence on the situation since allegations came to light had raised uncomfortable questions for some students at the prestigious university”.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/01/us-people-bill-cosby-idUSKCN0JF3A420141201

imo- Well, I think this hits him where it really hurts in his home town of Philadelphia. And, how could the institutions of higher learning stand by a trustee with a flood of accusations of drugging and rape? -Without a response from Cosby? People are smart; they may be silent but the action of distancing speaks loud.
 

Donjeta, thank you for such useful posts. From the article, "The Cosby we are now living with seems to be a corrupt practitioner of two very ancient presumptions of male power and privilege: “the casting couch” and “a girl in every port.”"

I find the "casting couch" as just something that aspiring actors must deal with unsettling. It seems to me that in general people just kind of discuss it as a matter of fact. I don't want to sound militant but it really bothers me that Hollywood allows bigwigs to go about receiving sexual favors for acting parts. A little O/T but I remember reading a story about Corey Haim being violated and it bothered me (if true, but he never named the alleged perpetrator and had some drug/other problems before he passed away, so we may never find out what happened, but some old article(s) on his abuse: http://globalnews.ca/news/939748/corey-haims-mother-wanted-her-sons-molester-brought-to-justice/ and http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/10/29/corey-feldman-sexual-abuse-corey-haim-book/ "Corey Haim was sadly molested so many times as a teenager that he thought it was normal behavior").

Sometimes I wonder if "casting couches etc" is far worse than what outsiders-public know, and if society is becoming more desensitized to this kind of behavior. idk jmo.
 
Interesting article about Camille from 1998:

Mrs. Cosby's Racial Paranoia

What can be said about a mother who exploits the tragic death of her own son to deliver a racist diatribe against a nation that has showered her with privilege, making her family wealthy and famous beyond the wildest dreams of almost anyone alive, including the very objects of her hate? Yet that is exactly what Camille Cosby has done in a USA Today column: “America Taught My Son’s Killer to Hate Blacks.”

http://www.salon.com/1998/07/13/nc_13horo/

Wow, I had no idea she was so angry. But she was sadly right about one thing:

In her current rant, Cosby begins her “proof” of America’s ineluctable racism with the fact that the Voting Rights Act will expire in 10 years. From this fact she concludes preposterously that “Congress once again will decide whether African-Americans will be allowed to vote” and comments that no other Americans are subjected to this oppressive nonsense.

On what planet is Camille Cosby living? What majority in this country is going to deny African-Americans the right to vote (which is, after all, a constitutional right)? In fact, the only African-Americans so denied in the past resided in the American South, a region whose major cities today are run by African-American elected officials, and where black legislators like Rep. Cynthia McKinney, D-Ga., are elected in majority white districts.
 
I just finished reading this whole thread over the past couple of days and I have to say thank you to Donjeta and all the other posters who have contributed to the discussion...even those I don't agree with. If anyone wants to understand the issue of rape in our society, they need to come here and read.

I have never been raped or sexually abused, and none of my friends have ever told me that they have been. My generation (I will be 69 next month) didn't talk about such things. When I went off to college in 1963, I don't think I even knew what rape was! If I had been raped, I would have found a way to blame myself and I would have been too afraid of the social consequences of speaking up. It seems that nothing has changed since Bill Cosby started raping.

I am so glad that these women found the courage to speak publicly at last. I believe them. I don't blame them for keeping quiet. What a horrible experience to try to process!

I appreciate how the linked blog writer explained why Cosby's victims didn't report the rape immediately. Here are a couple of snippets, but the whole thing is worth reading, as are the heartfelt comments from her readers:

Most people don’t automatically wake up and say, “Hey I was drugged and oh, yeah, wow: Raped.” It’s hard to believe someone would actually violate another person–especially someone you looked up to.

These women woke up in a state of bewilderment and had to pick up and carry on with life, and in the middle of it try to figure out what happened.

That takes time to figure out and process that someone violated you–not in one way, but two. The shock and denial can cause people to push it away. It’s a painful realization that they lost lost control somehow. That they were violated.

Now imagine processing all of this and trying to understand it, and you must figure it all out before the drugs (or DNA) leave your system. Figuring something like this out could take weeks or even months to mentally sort through, and by then the evidence has cleared the body. It’s gone forever.

Then, they don’t just have to say some strange guy did this to me, if they figure it out. No, they have to point to a beloved, trusted, highly regarded mega star, and say he did it! They have to accuse America’s favorite and most trusted Dad.

Imagine for just a minute how hard that would be.

http://www.eyesforlies.com/blog/2014/11/barbara-bowman-janice-dickinson/

I truly hope that Bill Cosby will understand at last the magnitude of what he did to each of those women he assaulted. He owes them a public apology. Actually, he owes an apology to everyone for his hypocrisy and arrogance. If he can muster up the humility and remorse to do this, he may stand a chance of redeeming himself. I hope it happens, but it won't hold my breath.
 
- I believe Janice--her reasons for trusting in 1982 ring true (imo). -She was a stunning woman in her heyday.

Janice Dickinson breaks down live on CNN

She also spoke at length about her reasons for trusting Cosby in the first place. She said: 'I do remember I was young i was innocent and I was very excited to get a call that I was going to be offered this job on the Cosby show and I trusted him. He was a married man.'

'[I trusted him] because of his demeanor and the promise of a career. I had a successful career and wanted to take it to the next level.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Lake-Tahoe-hotel-room-1982.html#ixzz3KiOAZJuT
 
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