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One thing that really jumps out at me in regards to that as a theory is the idea, which IMO was planted by JR, that JAR may have had anything to do with it.


Also, the R's insisting that the older children (JAR and MRL) be cleared as suspects before LE could speak to them makes me wonder were they ever suspects, and if they were, why? It's easy enough to check and see if they flew in from Atlanta that morning, wouldn't even take an hour. I think by insisting they be cleared, JR was planting the idea to LE that maybe they need to look at them for this. I see no reason why LE would think of the older children as suspects, but apparently JR did...or at least, wanted LE to consider them.

I don't know...I could be barking up a slick tree on this one, but glad to see others think it's possible.

Just goes to prove how much power the Rs and their attorneys had over LE. Since when does ANY suspect (or anyone period) get to "insist" people be cleared before they agree to talk to police.
 
They way he carried her has always seemed odd to me, for the same reasons as you have. I posted before about it and another poster said he may have had to carry her like that due to rigor mortis. He/She likened it to trying to carry a board up some steps.
Also never heard of a dead bolt on a closet door.

Ok, I can see he might not have been able to carry her cradled in his arms, horizontally, but why out at arms length? He was distancing himself from her physically, but why? I believe he was distancing himself from the crime as well.
 
I looked it up. In PMPT, Schiller says LE found the safe under a blue-green tarp when they searched the house. Although he doesn't say they opened it, it's not credibe that they found it but didn't look inside, or that they found evidence they didn't use.

I have read elsewhere that a metal sheet covered the safe. Does anyone know whether PMPT has it right, or was that one of Schiller's errors? DeeDee - ?

A more interesting question might be, Could the tarp have covered JBR? Could that be why FW didn't see her when he looked into the WC?

http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/07211998lindawilcoxon-pb.htm

July 21, 1998 Linda Wilcox (former Ramsey housekeeper) interview on Peter Boyles Show

Peter Boyles: So much talk about the so-called "secret room," the little room, the room that hardly anyone knew. Linda Hoffman-Pugh, who replaced you, once said that she didn't know the room was there. What about the room where the little girl's body was found?

Linda Wilcox: It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked JonBenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there. One day, it was Suzanne, myself, Nedra and Patsy."

Peter Boyles: "Suzanne was the nanny?"

Linda Wilcox: Yes, and the kids were in one of the other rooms playing. There had been a refrigerator down there. We were cleaning it out and doing things and I was, the floor leading to that room is linoleum and I was cleaning it by hand and I was backing myself out of the room so I wouldn't track over what I had cleaned. And I was backing myself into the wine cellar, the vacuum was behind me as I backed into the wine cellar. When I saw the safe on the floor and I go, hey did you know that there was a safe in here? It was covered with chips and paint and it hadn't been touched in a long time and I actually cleaned it off. And Patsy goes, 'Nah, I didn't know, John probably knows. Maybe he should, you know, drill it out sometime." As far as I know it was never used, there was never anything in it. There was no sign that it had been touched in years when I found it.
 
They way he carried her has always seemed odd to me, for the same reasons as you have. I posted before about it and another poster said he may have had to carry her like that due to rigor mortis. He/She likened it to trying to carry a board up some steps.
Also never heard of a dead bolt on a closet door.


No critique from me on JR's action. I held my lifeless child. There is nothing natural about holding your child's cold body.

JonBenet's tiny body was cold. It may be more than awkward to carry an almost 4' tall rigid body up the stairs.
 
No critique from me on JR's action. I held my lifeless child. There is nothing natural about holding your child's cold body.



JonBenet's tiny body was cold. It may be more than awkward to carry an almost 4' tall rigid body up the stairs.


I am so so sorry.

I just found it strange that he held her away from himself. I can't imagine doing that. No matter what, I know I'd hold my child close to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
One thing that really jumps out at me in regards to that as a theory is the idea, which IMO was planted by JR, that JAR may have had anything to do with it.

JAR's suitcase in the basement, containing a semen-stained blanket and child's book certainly makes JAR look like a pedophile. JR telling LE that it shouldn't be down there indicates to me that he's trying to point out to them "hey, this is out of place- could be evidence...Oh, my son's suitcase which I just pointed out to you could be evidence is holding things that makes him look suspicious for this?" JR knew JAR was in Atlanta and had an airtight alibi, but the physical evidence in the suitcase would force them to check out an avenue he knew would be a dead end, and having LE check it out would serve to buy the rest of them some time and space. Hiring lawyers for JAR and his mother also supports this idea, IMO.

Also, the R's insisting that the older children (JAR and MRL) be cleared as suspects before LE could speak to them makes me wonder were they ever suspects, and if they were, why? It's easy enough to check and see if they flew in from Atlanta that morning, wouldn't even take an hour. I think by insisting they be cleared, JR was planting the idea to LE that maybe they need to look at them for this. I see no reason why LE would think of the older children as suspects, but apparently JR did...or at least, wanted LE to consider them.

I don't know...I could be barking up a slick tree on this one, but glad to see others think it's possible.


Free, I've been pondering this. It's compelling in a number of ways and, if true, would have cinched JR's award for Colorado Sociopath of the Year. Why did the older children have to be cleared? Were they ever suspects? Good questions!

May I ask you some questions? I'd love to hear you flesh out the details of your theory.

1. So you're saying, then, that JR planted the fibers from the duvet and sham on JBR?

2. Do you think framing JAR was a desperate tactic inspired by the events (and he just lucked out on the semen), or do you think it's evidence of premeditation?

3. How would JR explain to JAR about JB + the suitcase, etc., if this evidence ever got out (which it did!), or do you think he planned to blame it on the intruder?

4. Do you think the mysterious photos of JBR that LE found in the basement might have been part of the frame-up?

5. Do you think JR did this on his own, or was PR any part of it, before or after?

Sorry if this feels like an interrogation - not at all intended! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts :smile:
 
Free, I've been pondering this. It's compelling in a number of ways and, if true, would have cinched JR's award for Colorado Sociopath of the Year. Why did the older children have to be cleared? Were they ever suspects? Good questions!

May I ask you some questions? I'd love to hear you flesh out the details of your theory.

1. So you're saying, then, that JR planted the fibers from the duvet and sham on JBR?

2. Do you think framing JAR was a desperate tactic inspired by the events (and he just lucked out on the semen), or do you think it's evidence of premeditation?

3. How would JR explain to JAR about JB + the suitcase, etc., if this evidence ever got out (which it did!), or do you think he planned to blame it on the intruder?

4. Do you think the mysterious photos of JBR that LE found in the basement might have been part of the frame-up?

5. Do you think JR did this on his own, or was PR any part of it, before or after?

Sorry if this feels like an interrogation - not at all intended! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts :smile:

No problem, I'll answer as best I can, according to my line of thinking.

1. Not sure. I think he may have actually been planning on putting the body in the suitcase (the 'large attache' mentioned in the RN could have been an attempt to set that up). Possibly even tried to put her in there, then found it wouldn't work and abandoned that plan.

2. I don't believe it was premeditated. I think it was a desperation move, knowing JAR had an airtight alibi, there was no chance of him actually being charged. JR just needed them looking somewhere- anywhere- except at the three Ramsey's who were in the house that night. In regards to the semen, I think it was probably a 'happy accident' (no pun intended) that it was on there. Could also have been an educated guess that it was on there... (extreme speculation here) like LHP might have mentioned to Patsy that JAR leaves his messes on his blanket for her to wash off, please ask him not to do that, PR tells JR to ask him, so JR could know it's there in a scenario like that.

3. I think he maintains the intruder theory to any and everyone who wasn't there, including his children.

4. Not sure.

5. Again, not sure, but I think JR did most of the staging by himself. I still believe this crime probably started with BR and fell in JR's lap to hide what happened.
 
Free, huge and very quick thanks to you from work! That fills in the picture nicely.
 
No critique from me on JR's action. I held my lifeless child. There is nothing natural about holding your child's cold body.

JonBenet's tiny body was cold. It may be more than awkward to carry an almost 4' tall rigid body up the stairs.

I am so sorry. No parent should ever have to do that.
 
:bump:

Is this what kind of thread we RDI's are looking for?
 
Thanks for bumping!!

No problem, I'll answer as best I can, according to my line of thinking.

1. Not sure. I think he may have actually been planning on putting the body in the suitcase (the 'large attache' mentioned in the RN could have been an attempt to set that up). Possibly even tried to put her in there, then found it wouldn't work and abandoned that plan.

2. I don't believe it was premeditated. I think it was a desperation move, knowing JAR had an airtight alibi, there was no chance of him actually being charged. JR just needed them looking somewhere- anywhere- except at the three Ramsey's who were in the house that night. In regards to the semen, I think it was probably a 'happy accident' (no pun intended) that it was on there. Could also have been an educated guess that it was on there... (extreme speculation here) like LHP might have mentioned to Patsy that JAR leaves his messes on his blanket for her to wash off, please ask him not to do that, PR tells JR to ask him, so JR could know it's there in a scenario like that.

3. I think he maintains the intruder theory to any and everyone who wasn't there, including his children.

4. Not sure.

5. Again, not sure, but I think JR did most of the staging by himself. I still believe this crime probably started with BR and fell in JR's lap to hide what happened.


the suite case has always been intriguing to me. I definitely believe they felt they could somehow get her out of the house at some point. Otherwise why make the desperate attempt to leave town so quickly after the discovery of the body? IA with non RDI believers about only one thing....it is not always easy to say definitively how one would react in a situation where your child is murdered. However, the most glaring "non-normal" behavior was JR making plans to fly to Atlanta for "important business." For god's sake, she wasn't even removed to the morgue yet, let alone any autopsy being done, THAT IS NOT NORMAL BY ANY STRETCH, AND ITS INDEFENSIBLE.

I know that the phone records / cell phone mysteriously disappeared, and it surely implies that they were once again hiding something. I don't doubt he called someone which if found out could be incriminating, but I wonder if perhaps the call(s) were made after JRB was already dead?

What if BR was responsible for the head blow, and they all just panicked. Perhaps JRB was in major distress, such as severe labored breathing/death rattle type situation? Imagine the parents are called down bc BR clubs JRB, and they find her unconscious, and exhibiting near death symptoms (if you google "death rattle" you'll learn that besides being an indicator of near death, it also can be a result of the swallowing reflex being impaired due to brain injury). So they find their daughter near death, AND showing signs of sexual assault and panic. Making an impulsive decision to end her suffering, one of them (my guess JR) strangles her. I would think in this situation very little force would be necessary to accomplish this. Calls are made, and it is only now that they learn BR can't be held responsible. But the problem is that if BR only inflicted the blow to the head, he didn't actually kill her.

it could possibly also explain why some believe the garrote was in one or more position on her neck prior to where it finally came to rest.

IDK, I'm rambling, and my post is all over the place. I guess I feel liberated in this thread :lol:
 
Thanks for bumping!!




the suite case has always been intriguing to me. I definitely believe they felt they could somehow get her out of the house at some point. Otherwise why make the desperate attempt to leave town so quickly after the discovery of the body? IA with non RDI believers about only one thing....it is not always easy to say definitively how one would react in a situation where your child is murdered. However, the most glaring "non-normal" behavior was JR making plans to fly to Atlanta for "important business." For god's sake, she wasn't even removed to the morgue yet, let alone any autopsy being done, THAT IS NOT NORMAL BY ANY STRETCH, AND ITS INDEFENSIBLE.

I know that the phone records / cell phone mysteriously disappeared, and it surely implies that they were once again hiding something. I don't doubt he called someone which if found out could be incriminating, but I wonder if perhaps the call(s) were made after JRB was already dead?

What if BR was responsible for the head blow, and they all just panicked. Perhaps JRB was in major distress, such as severe labored breathing/death rattle type situation? Imagine the parents are called down bc BR clubs JRB, and they find her unconscious, and exhibiting near death symptoms (if you google "death rattle" you'll learn that besides being an indicator of near death, it also can be a result of the swallowing reflex being impaired due to brain injury). So they find their daughter near death, AND showing signs of sexual assault and panic. Making an impulsive decision to end her suffering, one of them (my guess JR) strangles her. I would think in this situation very little force would be necessary to accomplish this. Calls are made, and it is only now that they learn BR can't be held responsible. But the problem is that if BR only inflicted the blow to the head, he didn't actually kill her.

it could possibly also explain why some believe the garrote was in one or more position on her neck prior to where it finally came to rest.

IDK, I'm rambling, and my post is all over the place. I guess I feel liberated in this thread :lol:

Yes, I commented on this on another thread today. I think it's very likely that by the time they found out about the Colorado Law, it was no longer about whether Burke could be prosecuted or not. Although my vote for the one that strangled her was Patsy. I am still not 100% convinced that John was involved in the initial cover up.

Although he certainly more than made up for it with his later efforts to cover up and thwart justice.
 
Thanks for bumping!!




the suite case has always been intriguing to me. I definitely believe they felt they could somehow get her out of the house at some point. Otherwise why make the desperate attempt to leave town so quickly after the discovery of the body? IA with non RDI believers about only one thing....it is not always easy to say definitively how one would react in a situation where your child is murdered. However, the most glaring "non-normal" behavior was JR making plans to fly to Atlanta for "important business." For god's sake, she wasn't even removed to the morgue yet, let alone any autopsy being done, THAT IS NOT NORMAL BY ANY STRETCH, AND ITS INDEFENSIBLE.

I know that the phone records / cell phone mysteriously disappeared, and it surely implies that they were once again hiding something. I don't doubt he called someone which if found out could be incriminating, but I wonder if perhaps the call(s) were made after JRB was already dead?

What if BR was responsible for the head blow, and they all just panicked. Perhaps JRB was in major distress, such as severe labored breathing/death rattle type situation? Imagine the parents are called down bc BR clubs JRB, and they find her unconscious, and exhibiting near death symptoms (if you google "death rattle" you'll learn that besides being an indicator of near death, it also can be a result of the swallowing reflex being impaired due to brain injury). So they find their daughter near death, AND showing signs of sexual assault and panic. Making an impulsive decision to end her suffering, one of them (my guess JR) strangles her. I would think in this situation very little force would be necessary to accomplish this. Calls are made, and it is only now that they learn BR can't be held responsible. But the problem is that if BR only inflicted the blow to the head, he didn't actually kill her.

it could possibly also explain why some believe the garrote was in one or more position on her neck prior to where it finally came to rest.

IDK, I'm rambling, and my post is all over the place. I guess I feel liberated in this thread :lol:

My take on the suitcase is different than yours. I see that suitcase and its contents as 100% staging by someone desperate to spread suspicion away from the immediate family onto others (even close relatives but outside of the immediate family). The suitcase is just a red herring and you can safely ignore it when searching for a solution to the murder. The parents may indeed have had plans originally to remove her body from the house but not inside of that suitcase.

Unless this was a premeditated, brutal murder then I believe there would have been panic on the part of both of the parents after the head blow, especially emotional Patsy. Seeing her prized daughter that she doted so much attention on dying from a near-fatal head blow would shake her to her core, and I believe she would be an emotional wreck and totally break down and not know what to do. Fortunately she had someone with her who knew what to do in a highly stressful crisis situation such as this. If the parents (I say parents, but really I am meaning one parent: JR) believed that there was no way to paint the head injury as accidental and they were faced with having to explain to authorities who within the family had done this horrible thing, then you have the right environment for staging and deception to shield the family. Yes, I believe JR did strangle her (which makes him a murderer), whether he was doing it to put her out of her misery or to stage or to kill two birds with one stone (stage AND put his suffering daughter out of her misery). While that is unthinkable to most us, to a logical mind not constrained by negative emotions (perfectly describes JR IMO), it makes perfect sense. To me the killer of JBR is the person who strangled her to death, not the inflictor of the head blow. I want to see JR prosecuted for first degree murder.
 
I agree anyhoo whoever strangled her is the actual murderer. I definitely believe that it was all set into motion b/c of something going horribly wrong with BR. Unfortunately for JRB, that family had something to hide, and sadly they were willing to go to any lengths to hide it.

The quote from Wecht pretty much says it all....
Dr. Cyril Wecht, a well known forensic pathologist, has no doubt that the 45-pound child was molested. "If she had been taken to a hospital emergency room, and doctors had seen the genital evidence, the father would have been arrested."
 
I agree anyhoo whoever strangled her is the actual murderer. I definitely believe that it was all set into motion b/c of something going horribly wrong with BR. Unfortunately for JRB, that family had something to hide, and sadly they were willing to go to any lengths to hide it.

The quote from Wecht pretty much says it all....

Doesn't that quote imply adult molestation, not child on child molestation? That is the way I have always interpreted it. There was only one person in the family really capable of doing that severe of a sexual molestation to JBR: her father. We like to speculate that BR was out of control and struck JB over the head, but BR has nothing to do with the kind of sexual molestation that I am picturing: adult on child sexual molestation, and it wasn't a one-time event. It had been done repeatedly. I think it was done again on Christmas night but this time something different happened. Maybe PR woke up and discovered the molestation and swung something heavy at John in a fit of emotional rage but accidently clobbered JB over the head in the process. Picture it. In that case, you have two guilty parents with every reason to hide and cover up for each other. Remember JR and PR stayed separate from each other for most of the next morning, and this could explain it. Each guilty parent was forced to cover up for the other one to hide their own guilt. BR may have had nothing at all to do with this crime.

As has been said before, using the garrote to strangle JB is some pretty extreme, over-the-top staging that reveals to me a state of "high desperation" on the part of the stager. If we assume the stager is JR, for whom does it make more sense that he would go to this extreme? To shield BR or to shield HIMSELF? I believe JR was shielding himself when he did this to try to conceal his prior ongoing sexual molestation of his daughter. He needed a brutal pedophile intruder to cover up his own activities with his young daughter.
 
Doesn't that quote imply adult molestation, not child on child molestation? That is the way I have always interpreted it. There was only one person in the family really capable of doing that severe of a sexual molestation to JBR: her father. We like to speculate that BR was out of control and struck JB over the head, but BR has nothing to do with the kind of sexual molestation that I am picturing: adult on child sexual molestation, and it wasn't a one-time event. It had been done repeatedly. I think it was done again on Christmas night but this time something different happened. Maybe PR woke up and discovered the molestation and swung something heavy at John in a fit of emotional rage but accidently clobbered JB over the head in the process. Picture it. In that case, you have two guilty parents with every reason to hide and cover up for each other. Remember JR and PR stayed separate from each other for most of the next morning, and this could explain it. Each guilty parent was forced to cover up for the other one to hide their own guilt. BR may have had nothing at all to do with this crime.

As has been said before, using the garrote to strangle JB is some pretty extreme, over-the-top staging that reveals to me a state of "high desperation" on the part of the stager. If we assume the stager is JR, for whom does it make more sense that he would go to this extreme? To shield BR or to shield HIMSELF? I believe JR was shielding himself when he did this to try to conceal his prior ongoing sexual molestation of his daughter. He needed a brutal pedophile intruder to cover up his own activities with his young daughter.

Yes his quote definitely leads one to think daddy was responsible. Your scenario could very well be correct. Kolar makes a very compelling argument for me however. He saw it all, evidence I mean, while we are only aware of a fraction of it. There is something I feel that makes him lean that way.

I fear we shall never know the truth though. It's heartbreaking.
 
I think the go-to assumption with that type of genital trauma is an adult male, due to prevalence/statistics. I think the realization that a young male was responsible is less of a shock to LEOs/medical pros than 'civilians' suppose it to be. I have a friend who was an ER nurse for 36 years. when I bounced this question off her she said her first thought was always male family member, period, and father or brother were even odds in her mind. those who lived in the house first, followed by males who had access to the child: grampa, uncle, cousin, brother's playmate, playmate's father (in that order, in her experience)
 
I think the go-to assumption with that type of genital trauma is an adult male, due to prevalence/statistics. I think the realization that a young male was responsible is less of a shock to LEOs/medical pros than 'civilians' suppose it to be. I have a friend who was an ER nurse for 36 years. when I bounced this question off her she said her first thought was always male family member, period, and father or brother were even odds in her mind. those who lived in the house first, followed by males who had access to the child: grampa, uncle, cousin, brother's playmate, playmate's father (in that order, in her experience)

*nods

Like I said, the statistics Kolar quotes are mind blowing. The number of juveniles (under 12) who commit sexual offenses is quite shocking. And the 8-10 year old category isn't much better.
 
Doesn't that quote imply adult molestation, not child on child molestation? That is the way I have always interpreted it. There was only one person in the family really capable of doing that severe of a sexual molestation to JBR: her father. We like to speculate that BR was out of control and struck JB over the head, but BR has nothing to do with the kind of sexual molestation that I am picturing: adult on child sexual molestation, and it wasn't a one-time event. It had been done repeatedly. I think it was done again on Christmas night but this time something different happened. Maybe PR woke up and discovered the molestation and swung something heavy at John in a fit of emotional rage but accidently clobbered JB over the head in the process. Picture it. In that case, you have two guilty parents with every reason to hide and cover up for each other. Remember JR and PR stayed separate from each other for most of the next morning, and this could explain it. Each guilty parent was forced to cover up for the other one to hide their own guilt. BR may have had nothing at all to do with this crime.

As has been said before, using the garrote to strangle JB is some pretty extreme, over-the-top staging that reveals to me a state of "high desperation" on the part of the stager. If we assume the stager is JR, for whom does it make more sense that he would go to this extreme? To shield BR or to shield HIMSELF? I believe JR was shielding himself when he did this to try to conceal his prior ongoing sexual molestation of his daughter. He needed a brutal pedophile intruder to cover up his own activities with his young daughter.

Mothers do molest their daughters; however, of the female offenders, 14% of the cases reported are sexually abused boys and 6% of them are girls, although that is more frequently than mothers who bash their daughter's skulls and garrote them to death.

If, as you have opined, Anyhoo, the head bash came before the ligature strangulation, why was only 2 tbs of blood found at autopsy from JonBenet's head wound?

The enclosed head injury that JonBenet suffered was compared to a fall from a third story building and landing head first. The head strike was meant to kill this child just as assuredly as the ligature around her neck was intended to end her life.

Panic, fear, emotions, previous inexperience at killing, inexperience at being a criminal, and the adrenaline rush are involved following an awful accident involving a loved one. Under those stressors, how could any parent effectively stage anything much less compose a lengthy RN unless it was planned in advance?

In Lou Smit's 35+ years of homicide detective work on 200 cases, he only knew of 2 that were staged. Staging at a crime scene is not as common as tv shows leads us to believe.

Everything we see at the JBR crime scene is exactly what was intended to be found. It was not staged. It was premeditated murder.

I believe the cord was not cut before binding JonBenet. The non-frayed end of the nylon cord was wound around the broken paint brush. The garrote could reach from the knot at her neck to her vagina if the 5.5" tail from the right wrist ligature was uncut at this point. That was not coincidental.
 
Mothers do molest their daughters; however, of the female offenders, 14% of the cases reported are sexually abused boys and 6% of them are girls, although that is more frequently than mothers who bash their daughter's skulls and garrote them to death.

If, as you have opined, Anyhoo, the head bash came before the ligature strangulation, why was only 2 tbs of blood found at autopsy from JonBenet's head wound?

The enclosed head injury that JonBenet suffered was compared to a fall from a third story building and landing head first. The head strike was meant to kill this child just as assuredly as the ligature around her neck was intended to end her life.

Panic, fear, emotions, previous inexperience at killing, inexperience at being a criminal, and the adrenaline rush are involved following an awful accident involving a loved one. Under those stressors, how could any parent effectively stage anything much less compose a lengthy RN unless it was planned in advance?

In Lou Smit's 35+ years of homicide detective work on 200 cases, he only knew of 2 that were staged. Staging at a crime scene is not as common as tv shows leads us to believe.

Everything we see at the JBR crime scene is exactly what was intended to be found. It was not staged. It was premeditated murder.

I believe the cord was not cut before binding JonBenet. The non-frayed end of the nylon cord was wound around the broken paint brush. The garrote could reach from the knot at her neck to her vagina if the 5.5" tail from the right wrist ligature was uncut at this point. That was not coincidental.

You are suggesting that the garrote was created by someone practiced at making garrotes, who knew not just how to make one but also how to use it? Who had prior experience in using it so he knew exactly how to make it and what to do?
 

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