Sometimes I think he did. other times, I figure he'd want to put some distance between himself and that little creation.
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Sometimes I think he did. other times, I figure he'd want to put some distance between himself and that little creation.
OliviaG1996,
From memory there were no search engines, as such, way back in 1996. What was on offer was Yahoo Search, which was simply favorite topics linked by keywords, similarly another search engine, quite popular, was Alta-Vista, again just topics linked by keyword. Google arrived a few years later using its PageRank algorithm which was so efficient it more or less killed off the competition.
Also if the R's had access to the internet it would have been via dialup, i.e. through a modem, anyone remember that stuff, so they would have been on something like CompuServe (CompuServe Information Service)?
footnote: Jerry Yang who co-founded Yahoo, missed a trick with Yahoo Search. Their first website was called Jerry and David's Guide to the World Wide Web, a list of a list of favorite sites organised by topic. Which later became Yahoo Inc. They forgot all about the search stuff and focused on email, news, shopping sites, and geocities blog types, etc. By the time they realized they had missed the search boat it was too late, google arrived and over time rendered Yahoo just another website portal!
OliviaG1996
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Do you figure PR was ever going to tell JR what truly happened to JBR? I can't imagine her keeping this a secret from JR for a few hours, let alone forever.
OliviaG1996,
Read the Ramsey version of Events: i.e. JR had to know what to say. The R's claimed BR was not awake the morning of 12/26/1996, but once his voice was alleged to be heard on the 911 call, both parents admitted BR was wide awake!
Its possible both PR and JR never fully knew what happened to JonBenet that night/morning, but they knew enough to construct a staged crime-scene and potentially be charged by the GJ with Accessory to a Crime.
Both parents had to know what the other knew otherwise their respective version of events would be inconsistent!
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OliviaG1996
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That's what I figured. Also, the idea of the garrote being made in the first place points to JR being involved. Would PR have known how to make one on her own? A certain phrase in the ransom note also stands out to me as something I've only heard JR say out of both parents: "Proper burial". It's mentioned in the ransom note as well as here.
In my opinion, the note was 90% Patsy, 10% John.
But when did the Ramsey's give those versions of the events? That morning or four months later?
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OliviaG1996
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I could've sworn I read somewhere that an officer had asked BR, before he left for the White's, if he had heard anything and JR answered for him saying, "No, he heard nothing. He was asleep," or something to that effect. Was that a rumor?
At the house, another peculiar scene unfolded that left police bewildered. Burke Ramsey was awakened by his father and Fleet White, dressed, and was being taken from the house. Burke was one of only three people in the house at the time of the crime and therefore a witness who needed to be closely questioned about the disappearance of his sister. Perhaps he had heard or seen something during the night that could help investigators find JonBenét. So when Officer Rick French saw him being taken away, he went over to talk to the boy. But John Ramsey intervened. The father told the policeman that Burke didnt know anything and had slept through it all, and he hustled the boy to a waiting vehicle. It was one of the poignant moments of the morning. His sister was thought to be the victim of a terrorist kidnapping, but Burke was exiled to the Whites home, an unprotected location, where he would be watched over by friends instead of police. Whatever he knew went away with him. I would later wonder why the parents had not awakened the boy immediately upon discovering that JonBenét was missing.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, Pages 22-23
cynic,
Just where does JR get his authority from, to override Rick French and relocate BR?
At this point in the proceedings JR's staging is unfolding, he feels confident enough to relocate BR, who knows what he staged down in the basement or upstairs?
Curious how Fleet White makes BR's bed up, did he think BR might be returning?
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JR got his authority from his money and connections.
Mason tried to scare up some detectives to assist Detective Arndt, but the crew on duty the morning after Christmas was already spread thin on other assignments related to the case. For two hours and twenty-seven minutes, Arndt was the only officer in the Ramsey house.
At first Mason couldn’t understand why the officers on the scene hadn’t secured the house earlier, separated the Ramseys, and questioned them individually. Then he learned that Commander Eller had ordered that the Ramseys be treated as victims, not suspects.
The Ramseys were an “influential family,” Eller told Mason, who realized that this message must have affected the behavior of all the officers at the scene.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, Page 15
However, if true, Mason’s involvement began after 8 o’clock in the morning which would have been nearly an hour after Burke was taken from the home.
Perhaps the officers didn’t need to be “told,” they were already influenced by their surroundings…
Hearing reports about the kidnapping ended Commander Eller’s vacation. He wasn’t happy about it; he had a house full of family and friends from back home in Florida. He was also annoyed to find out that nobody of substantial rank was on duty. In his irritation, the commander completely forgot he had approved Detective Mason to be on call at home.
Judging by what Eller heard from officers at the scene, the Ramseys appeared to be part of Boulder’s elite. “Credible millionaires” was a phrase one officer used. Obviously, Eller felt, these were people you had to treat with respect, not people you wanted to offend.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, Page 10
Of course, none of this excuses the numerous mistakes that were made, in only serves to provide insight.
Difficult to say what the thought process was involving the decision to relocate Burke, and your comment presupposes that John knew all the details of what had happened during the wee hours of the morning. I’m not sure because the evidence doesn't paint a clear picture, IMO.
It’s possible that Fleet may have thought BR may be returning, although Fleet may have simply been “keeping busy,” perhaps as a means of dealing with nervous energy.
cynic,
We know Schiller's sources were tainted, anyway I reckon the R's had phoned for advice early in the morning and were told to create a staged crime-scene, which would be investigated later, why? No phone records are available despite the fact that the US Government never deletes phone records they are stored indefinitely!
mmm, well we can infer JR is thinking about the staging process, why because he already has a version events wrt BR. Also he then decides to relocate BR overriding Rick French's request! Its a legal move, JR is moving BR out, hopefully to be beyond LEA inspection, his rationale must be: they can interview PR or JR comprehensively, but one of the prime suspects is beyond immediate legal inspection?
There are four options:
1. Only JR knows what took place.
2. Only PR knows what took place.
3. Both JR and PR know what took place.
4. Neither JR or PR know what took place.
Which of those you think is valid will depend on your current RDI theory? I'm of the opinion that neither parent knew all the details, but enough to attempt a staged crime-scene, why: because of all the holes in their version of events, the stuff they never staged i.e. the breakfast bar, etc.
Looks like PR staged the first crime-scene which JR later vetoed, and out of necessity dumped most of the forensic evidence in the wine-cellar, e.g. pink barbie nightgown, partially opened christmas gifts, barbie doll, how much of this was part of PR's staging is open to debate?
Then there is the suitcase which JR says he relocated down to the basement, this I seriously doubt, it was never part of his paygrade to do housework. Again more evidence he was thinking ahead, not mention the chair in front of the door that the intruder exited, patently JR has out-thought himself here?
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BoldBear
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UkGuy,
I like your line of thinking here.
I'd just like to point-out that in the timeline there was an unexpected Christmas party. The house needed to be readied for it. John didn't say when he moved the suitcase into the basement only that he had. He said that he moved it down from the laundry room so I'll assume that it was the 2nd floor common. With an unexpected party and little time, this may have been an "all hands on deck" type thing. He may well have pitched-in if they were rushed.
Otherwise; the suitcase for staging seems logical.
I like your line of thinking here.
I'd just like to point-out that in the timeline there was an unexpected Christmas party. The house needed to be readied for it. John didn't say when he moved the suitcase into the basement only that he had. He said that he moved it down from the laundry room so I'll assume that it was the 2nd floor common. With an unexpected party and little time, this may have been an "all hands on deck" type thing. He may well have pitched-in if they were rushed.
Otherwise; the suitcase for staging seems logical.
BoldBear
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Sometimes my thinking isn't as focused as I'd like it to be, but I just got to wondering about Lou Smit and the photos of him entering through the basement window. This may be one of those dumb thoughts I should just push aside because it's stupid, but the idea struck me cold. Did Lou Smit reenact the entry from the basement window to prove that it could be done? Or did he do it because he knew the photos would be released and would support the intruder theory? How did the release of those photos further the investigation?
I guess I'm rather naive. I know Smit believed that Ramseys were innocent, but it never occurred to me that he might blatantly push an agenda. It almost seems as simple as to point your finger and say, "Hey, look over there."
I guess I'm rather naive. I know Smit believed that Ramseys were innocent, but it never occurred to me that he might blatantly push an agenda. It almost seems as simple as to point your finger and say, "Hey, look over there."
BoldBear,
Well Smit did push an agenda. He helped himself to lots of forensic evidence, including pictures, slides, etc and used these to promote his mythical Intruder Theory, despite a glaring lack of direct forensic evidence.
The media accepted his Intruder Theory and ran with it, publishing lots of his pictures and slides to back up his theory.
Yet if you analyse the crime-scene you will not find forensic evidence consistent with an intruder. There are no forensic samples distributed over the crime-scene that you might expect from someone relocating and redressing JonBenet, never mind a Foreign Faction.
With foreign dna discovered on JonBenet's clothing this was determined to be evidence of an intruder, quite a naive inference, when we can predict there must be other foreign dna on JonBenet's person, arising from interactions at the White's party!
One explanation for the foreign dna sample is that whenever JonBenet was redressed in the size-12's, the foreign dna was transferred from the Christmas wrapping paper, as it was unwrapped, from there to JonBenet's clothing as the redresser dressed her? Someone other than the R's gift wrapped the size-12's as part of the store service.
Smit might have believed he was onto something with his Intruder Entrance pictures, sadly he has no forensic evidence to back it all up.
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http://www.dailycamera.com/news/bou...ock-beloved-minister-and-cyclist-dies-boulder
Rol Hoverstock, beloved minister and cyclist, dies in Boulder at 73
10/02/2015
"Among those who sought his counsel were John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of JonBenét.
Not long after JonBenét's body was found inside the Ramsey's 15th Street home Dec. 26, 1996, Hoverstock led family and friends who were there in the Lord's Prayer.
"That was something that was a challenge, certainly, to his early years at St. John's," university classmate and lifelong friend David Cass said. "The press attention was a strain."
Hoverstock never spoke to the media about the case."
Rol Hoverstock, beloved minister and cyclist, dies in Boulder at 73
10/02/2015
"Among those who sought his counsel were John and Patsy Ramsey, parents of JonBenét.
Not long after JonBenét's body was found inside the Ramsey's 15th Street home Dec. 26, 1996, Hoverstock led family and friends who were there in the Lord's Prayer.
"That was something that was a challenge, certainly, to his early years at St. John's," university classmate and lifelong friend David Cass said. "The press attention was a strain."
Hoverstock never spoke to the media about the case."
Not naive at all. I think he did it for BOTH of the reasons you suggest.
And with good reason. With LW hanging over their heads with threat of a lawsuit- no one would have chanced financial and social ruin by speaking out. Not to mention that the Rs had already shown how easy it was to throw their friends under a bus if they were confronted. FW and his family can attest to that.