RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!
- Thread starter Chrishope
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Did Patsy act alone? Was she, like Oswald, part of a bigger conspiracy? Patsy or patsy? Paughswald? Now there is no Zapruder film in this case, the closest we have is that clip of Jon Benet doing her cowboy sweetheart routine. Like Zapruder's, this film is played endlessly every time this story goes media giving JB an infinite loop of youth and innocence. Replacing Aberham's super 8 evidence is Linda Arndt's testimony, at times just as grainy and controversial. According to Arndt, Patsy was on the couch, hands covering her face but peering through splayed fingers wailing and sermonizing to the heavens as she swayed her body in a christian manner....back and to the left.....back and to the left....back and to the left, the same motion Kennedy made when he was hit from behind by a shot from the front! The magic bullet in this case is Patsy's statements as to what did or didn't happen that night. Her explanations enter the public consciousness then weave, bend, alter direction, carom then illogically lodge in the left wrist of the intruder theory.
There has been so much written about this case just like the JFK event. Even the Ramsey's have written 265 pages about it.....268 if you count the ransom note! The similarities astound me, like Fleet White being the Jack Ruby of this entire thing. At first White moved around the periphery of events while slowly being drawn closer to the centre until he is the target of the same vitriol and microscopic study the main participants are receiving. At first White enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, just like Ruby, but after the Ramseys gave his name to the cops as a possible suspect this turned into 15 minutes of framed.
Now I'm not saying there was a conspiracy or there wasn't. The Ramsey's do seem like the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza however, well manicured on top but a little dirty underneath.
There has been so much written about this case just like the JFK event. Even the Ramsey's have written 265 pages about it.....268 if you count the ransom note! The similarities astound me, like Fleet White being the Jack Ruby of this entire thing. At first White moved around the periphery of events while slowly being drawn closer to the centre until he is the target of the same vitriol and microscopic study the main participants are receiving. At first White enjoyed his 15 minutes of fame, just like Ruby, but after the Ramseys gave his name to the cops as a possible suspect this turned into 15 minutes of framed.
Now I'm not saying there was a conspiracy or there wasn't. The Ramsey's do seem like the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza however, well manicured on top but a little dirty underneath.
Thanks for the info on the red clothing items. In the UK they call sweaters "jumpers" and I didn't know if it was just PR being pretentious. Is it odd that 2 items of red clothing that JBR had not worn that day were found wet in the morning?
Maybe not. But the discussion about the triangular mark on her neck led me to look at the autopsy and crime scene photos again. I am not expert in wounds, and I know it has been discussed to death here, but the mark sure looks like the handle of the freaking silver spoon in the pineapple bowl.
Maybe not. But the discussion about the triangular mark on her neck led me to look at the autopsy and crime scene photos again. I am not expert in wounds, and I know it has been discussed to death here, but the mark sure looks like the handle of the freaking silver spoon in the pineapple bowl.
It was christmas time, which PR seemed to really go all out for. JB was Little Miss Christmas too. Could be the reason for so much red.
I understand why you would see that shape as similar to the handle of the spoon, it really is a similar shape. In pictures of other victims of ligature strangulations you can sometimes see a similar mark. It is caused by the anatomy of the neck. otg made a great post that summarizes exactly how this works :http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gular-parchment-like-rust-colored-abrasion%94
In brief: The so called "carotid triangle" formed by the intersection of muscles of the neck causes a triangular shaped area in which blood pools under the skin.
I understand why you would see that shape as similar to the handle of the spoon, it really is a similar shape. In pictures of other victims of ligature strangulations you can sometimes see a similar mark. It is caused by the anatomy of the neck. otg made a great post that summarizes exactly how this works :http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...gular-parchment-like-rust-colored-abrasion%94
In brief: The so called "carotid triangle" formed by the intersection of muscles of the neck causes a triangular shaped area in which blood pools under the skin.
Really doesn't make any sense that she would put an article of clothing that JB wore days ago, in to soak on the eve of their early departure. Why then? If Patsy were concerned about the garment, why didn't she take care of it in the days before? Seems more likely that she would have left it for the maid.
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It is a little strange. I looked on acandyrose for some more specifics.
The performance was on December 22nd. She was wearing the red, high-necked, sleeveless jumpsuit with sequins around the neck and a little red hat.
Southwest Plaza Mall Pageant sponsored by America's Royal Miss
"I remember laying the little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's over the ironing board, because it had a few spots on it" (snip) "No, no, it was something she had worn for a Christmas performance. It was a little Christmas thing." (snip) "she wore it, some of her pageant girls performed together in a group, some Christmas songs and things, down in a mall in Denver" [Patsy 6/98]
So maybe it wasn't exactly that it was soaking? Perhaps she was just trying to embellish her story of that morning? Perhaps it was something she actually did the night before (before they were gone for several weeks) and added it in as a detail of the morning instead?
The performance was on December 22nd. She was wearing the red, high-necked, sleeveless jumpsuit with sequins around the neck and a little red hat.
Southwest Plaza Mall Pageant sponsored by America's Royal Miss
"I remember laying the little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's over the ironing board, because it had a few spots on it" (snip) "No, no, it was something she had worn for a Christmas performance. It was a little Christmas thing." (snip) "she wore it, some of her pageant girls performed together in a group, some Christmas songs and things, down in a mall in Denver" [Patsy 6/98]
So maybe it wasn't exactly that it was soaking? Perhaps she was just trying to embellish her story of that morning? Perhaps it was something she actually did the night before (before they were gone for several weeks) and added it in as a detail of the morning instead?
How much of the crime do BDI theorists believe he was involved in? I've read some who think he did the head blow, garroting, and hiding of the body -- hell even some think he wrote the note. I find it a bit far-fetched that he managed to do all these things. Burke wasn't a master criminal; he was a 9-year-old with unspecified behavioral issues. I think at most he caused the head blow and Patsy (and/or John) discovered JonBenet in a state of unconsciousness.
I find it somewhat plausible that a BDI scenario could involve the head wound, the SA, and even perhaps the ligature.
The last point is the one of most contention with BDI people. It is difficult to imagine a young boy strangling his sister in such a way. Even more difficult to imagine than him committing the SA. Obviously Kolar has some ideas on this. He hints at there being sexual behavior problem symptoms. He has also stated in his AMA that he believes the cord was "part of the initial motivation" in her death. So I humbly submit a potential theory:
B & JB are playing in some way. B has a "leash" around her neck made of the cord. Perhaps he feeds pineapple as a "treat" to his "pet". He assaults her, and she resists. He is angered and hits her, hard. When she falls perhaps the cord is tightened, but not all the way. She is slowly asphyxiated over about 45 minutes as her heart rate has dropped dramatically. He knows he did something wrong by hitting her. He runs away out of fear of being punished. She is in a terrible state. She is bloodied, bashed, strangled.
At some point either BR tells his mother, or she finds JB herself. She goes into a state of denial at the horribleness of the sight. She cannot allow the world to know.
She gets JR. He tells her to write a note. Either her body was in the basement already or she is brought down. JR gives the cord a final tug to tighten it, bracing himself on her back. He cuts the cord shorter. He grabs the paintbrush as a nearby item. He inserts the paintbrush somewhat roughly to perhaps explain how her hymen was broken. . He ties the brush to the cord to disguise how the cord looked originally. He ties her hands to use the rest of the cord.
PR is upstairs writing the note. JR goes to shower. He comes down and it's time to call the police. He sees the note as she's calling, he knows it's ridiculous. He snaps at BR. He remains distant from his wife for the rest of the day.
There are many other ways to arrange the players of course. I believe they were all involved in some capacity.
The last point is the one of most contention with BDI people. It is difficult to imagine a young boy strangling his sister in such a way. Even more difficult to imagine than him committing the SA. Obviously Kolar has some ideas on this. He hints at there being sexual behavior problem symptoms. He has also stated in his AMA that he believes the cord was "part of the initial motivation" in her death. So I humbly submit a potential theory:
B & JB are playing in some way. B has a "leash" around her neck made of the cord. Perhaps he feeds pineapple as a "treat" to his "pet". He assaults her, and she resists. He is angered and hits her, hard. When she falls perhaps the cord is tightened, but not all the way. She is slowly asphyxiated over about 45 minutes as her heart rate has dropped dramatically. He knows he did something wrong by hitting her. He runs away out of fear of being punished. She is in a terrible state. She is bloodied, bashed, strangled.
At some point either BR tells his mother, or she finds JB herself. She goes into a state of denial at the horribleness of the sight. She cannot allow the world to know.
She gets JR. He tells her to write a note. Either her body was in the basement already or she is brought down. JR gives the cord a final tug to tighten it, bracing himself on her back. He cuts the cord shorter. He grabs the paintbrush as a nearby item. He inserts the paintbrush somewhat roughly to perhaps explain how her hymen was broken. . He ties the brush to the cord to disguise how the cord looked originally. He ties her hands to use the rest of the cord.
PR is upstairs writing the note. JR goes to shower. He comes down and it's time to call the police. He sees the note as she's calling, he knows it's ridiculous. He snaps at BR. He remains distant from his wife for the rest of the day.
There are many other ways to arrange the players of course. I believe they were all involved in some capacity.
It is easy to see the parents covering for Burke. Even if he couldn't be tried, the whole affair would ruin the most important thing in a wealthy family's life: their reputation. Families with vast wealth are often control freaks and would rather be seen as objects of sympathy than a dysfunctional family with parents who couldn't rein in their problem child.
I can't say that faced with the murder of one of my small children by my other small child, I wouldn't cover for the living child and bear all the slings and arrows coming my way. Thankfully, I will never be in that situation. I would not cover the murder and molestation of my child if my spouse were the perp. HE would be calling the police for his own protection and he better pray that they get there before I finished him off.
I read that BR had a learning disability which made it hard for him to express himself in words or writing. He didn't write the RN, his momma did.
I read that BR had a learning disability which made it hard for him to express himself in words or writing. He didn't write the RN, his momma did.
If BDI I'd say he didn't do much more than the head blow, and possibly dragging the body to a more remote location of the house.
The sexual assault IMO is staging, done to cover up a previous sexual assault. It is possible that Burke may have been responsible for that as well. Everything else I believe was the work of the parents.
ETA - the fact that the parents decided to wipe down JBs groin area suggests that they were aware that she had been assaulted very recently. Would Patsy have covered for John if he was responsible? Considering the lack of closeness in their marriage, I highly doubt it. So if the parent(s) wiped JB down to cover up for Burke's transgressions, they would have had to know that this was going on, and on a regular basis. I highly doubt that when the parents found JB half dead Burke would have admitted to fondling his sister. He'd admit to hitting her, but how would Patsy and or John make the deduction that a sexual assault had occurred?
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But wasn't it found balled up and wet on the floor? So how'd it get from the ironing board to the floor?
See, these are the kinds of things that people tend to ignore when putting together theories. That red outfit had something to do with that nights events, I'm certain of it. If that outfit was damp, it would have had to have been handled in the previous 12 hours or less. She hadn't worn it in three days, so why on the night that Patsy is running about getting things ready to fly across the country in the morning, does she stop to worry about this garment? And coincidentally the same outfit ends up balled up and wet on the floor? Does anyone have a photo of JB wearing that outfit?
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I think you are mixing it up with the damp, balled up turtleneck, found on her bathroom counter. I'll keep looking for more specific details on the red jumpsuit, but I've never heard of it being on the floor or even damp.
Maybe something happened in that upstairs laundry room area. Its right outside JB's room. There was a knife there. I'm reminded of BR's statement "Somone took her quietly to the basement with a knife and hit her on the head.".
Maybe something happened in that upstairs laundry room area. Its right outside JB's room. There was a knife there. I'm reminded of BR's statement "Somone took her quietly to the basement with a knife and hit her on the head.".
elannia
Active Member
The knife statement is interesting to me. Where did BR come up with that?, was it truth or just a big lie. According to PR ,JB wore the red turtleneck to bed then changed her statement. the red turtleneck was found balled up on the sink. Interesting that PR changed her statement real quick about what JB wore that night.
So is that red turtleneck the one she was supposed to wear to the White"s?
Yes as reported by both JR and PR. There was "disagreement between mother and daughter" because PR wanted to match but JB wanted to wear the outfit that she picked out at the Gap (the white shirt, PR had picked out the velvet pants to wear to the party).
The sweater was balled up on the bathroom counter, the jumpsuit on the ironing board IIRC - both damp. How did the sweater get wet? JBR may have wet it so she wouldn't have to wear it. She may have tossed it into the toilet, who knows. Andreww, although it looks suspect, and I was having all sorts of terrible ideas to put these 2 bits of clothing together in some nefarious way, I do not believe that there was some performance by JBR that night for weirdos, photo sessions or whatever. The neighbors would have seen or heard vehicles coming and going from the residence. It is nothing more than 2 bits of red clothing at Christmas as a poster upthread suggested.
InstantProof
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A literal red herring 