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Well, Teresa, it works like this: if what I said is right--and who knows if it is?--her head could have struck the headboard, the adjacent wall, or maybe even a dresser edge.

You're right about one thing: devastating head injuries can occur from the head striking a stationary object just as much as from being struck. The classic example would be why car airbags were invented.

I'm not going to totally discount this theory Dave but here is my problem with it, if she was pushed, shoved or thrown in to something like a piece of furniture or tub, why not just say that she was bouncing on the bed, or screwing around in the bathroom and fell accidentally? Just call 911. There is a slight risk that JB would recover with a complete memory, but that was a lot less risky than intentionally murdering her and faking a kidnapping. IMO the reason that they proceeded after the head blow was because that injury was caused by something that they didn't think would be able to be explained away

But who knows, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. Maybe they were simply done with her like they were done with their dog, and broken beauty queen was no longer worthy to be their daughter.
 
Did something happen to their dog?


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Did something happen to their dog?
Peter Boyles Radio Show - July 21, 1998
Linda Wilcox Interview


PETER BOYLES: "Jacque the dog, again, JonBenet's dog, but the dog was given to the people across the street. A lot of people have talked about where was the dog that night. The dog had been given to the neighbors because the neighbors quote, liked the dog and so the dog lived there. What can you tell us about the dog?"

LINDA WILCOX: "Well, first of all, Patsy didn't want a dog. And, she didn't want JonBenet to have a dog. This particular dog didn't get the potty training thing down very well, he tended to leave puddles. He was pretty much relegated to the wood floor at the bottom of the spiral staircase and out the side door off the patio. However, they had, John told Patsy to get JonBenet a dog. It was John's decision to get a dog and Patsy chose a Bichon. She got it from a pet store, and I came there one day, his name was Jacques, a little guy, cute little furball. Well, one day the dog went to the vet and came back. But the dog that went to the vet was smaller than the dog that left. I had said something to Patsy, the next week I walked in and I asked Patsy what happened to Jacques. She's like, "What?" And I said, this isn't Jacques. And she's like, SHHHH, don't tell anyone, no one else knows. Turns out the first dog had something wrong like some kind of liver disease or something and it was dying. It was a bad dog, so she called the pet store and made a switch before anyone knew.

One more thing...I think the first summer, the summer of '94, they took the dog with them to Michigan. See Patsy took care of the dog, John took no responsibility for it whatsoever. He tolerated it at best. And, if it got anything of his, heaven forbid. I don't know this, but I think they got rid of the dog because when they were in Michigan, they were busy with pageants. They were doing other things and there was no one to look after the dog. I think they gave it to the neighbors when they left for the summer because they didn't want to hassle with the dog. Life was good for them until it was inconvenient."




And, in a post on another discussion forum:

Rita Johnson
Date Posted: 22:42:21 11/21/03 Fri
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Her frequent visits across the street to Joe Barnhill and his wife--taking them dinner because she was afraid they would have none" This was a quote by Rainsong on Crimenews."

I just wanted to set the record straight about Patsy, John and the Barnhills. From the day of JonBenet's murder neither John nor Patsy contacted the Barnhills. Even though Jacques was supposedly JonBenet's dog. Joe Barnhill and I have spoken on numerous occasions and he very sadly said he has never been contacted by the family and doesn't know why. The only one that contacted him was one of their investigators telling him to "be quiet- and never talk about what he saw the morning of the murder"...He said "they told me I was mistaken"....I found that to be very odd. Never once was he contacted when his wife was deathly ill and ultimately died very near the time that Nedra died.

And, finally when little Jacques died he asked me to tell the Ramseys and I emailed them, but nobody called him then either.....He doesn't understand why, even more so since his step-daughter Diane Aldridge helped out the Ramseys by putting together the Diane Sawyer special.. She is the producer for the show.....It just goes to show that they seemingly forgot some of those that helped them out in the very early days following JonBenet's death. It's strange that Patsy would have constantly gone over to their house to make sure they ate and checked on them, yet NEVER spoken to them since the MURDER.....Rita


Both clips can be found at ACR:
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-neighbors-joe-betty-barnhill.htm


 

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Yes this is strange. Maybe they don't hang around this board. Maybe they are just a small group?
A small group? Would you also venture to say they are foreign to this board? Kinda like a "small foreign....."
(Oh, nevermind.)

:giggle:
 
I thought the dog was at the Barnhill's only to be taken care of while the Rs were on vacation. But, now I see that it was given to them and they shared it with JBR.

I e-mailed S. Thomas about the head injury with a suggestion of what could have caused it and his response was that it was the flashlight. He didn't say it was from being launched into a hard object. This is why I stated what I did.
 
Well, Teresa, it works like this: if what I said is right--and who knows if it is?--her head could have struck the headboard, the adjacent wall, or maybe even a dresser edge.

You're right about one thing: devastating head injuries can occur from the head striking a stationary object just as much as from being struck. The classic example would be why car airbags were invented.


Thank you for your response SuperDave. I will go take another look at JonBenets bed again. I have ideas but no firm opinion thus I'm open to reasonable input. I'm positive that it was a Ramsey though.
 
The story with the dog is really telling. It shows the character of that family. It shows the character of Patsy, especially. This and also how she got a nanny for some reason even though she could have easily been a stay at home mother. I'm real sick of people saying PR was a great mom. She got a nanny to shoo off the kids to someone else. If a person has a hugely busy life, I can get behind the idea of daycare. If both parents need to work. But in this case she didn't, and she didn't even really do anything.

Her failure to care for a little dog shows how much dedication she actually has to caregiving. My mom was/is the same way. Even with the nanny for no reason part. And she was an abusive, neglectful, alcoholic. She even had a dog she never took care of, and gave away without a tear shed. He too was not housebroken. If someone can't even take care of their own kids how on earth can they housebreak and train a dog? Also, believe this or not, his name was Jacques. (Not a Bichon, though.) Guess this was the name for a dog for rich ...witches in this time period.

I have one thought about the weapon and John's request for his golf clubs. It may be that the golf clubs request was a red herring... maybe not intentionally. Maybe, though. But anyway, old rich men cherish their golf clubs. They cost like thousands of dollars, sometimes per each club. It COULD be that the reason he requested his clubs was because he didn't want the common folks like the cops stealing his fancy clubs. Probably this is why they removed oil paintings, too, if I read that part correctly. If Patsy had fur coats, I bet these were removed. Rich people are always fearing that anyone middle class and under has only one plan in mind and that's stealing their stuff. I guess sometimes they're right, ... but probably not cops investigating a murder...
 
I thought the dog was at the Barnhill's only to be taken care of while the Rs were on vacation. But, now I see that it was given to them and they shared it with JBR.

I e-mailed S. Thomas about the head injury with a suggestion of what could have caused it and his response was that it was the flashlight. He didn't say it was from being launched into a hard object. This is why I stated what I did.

Do you have Steve's e-mail? Does he regularly converse with people about the case?
 
The story with the dog is really telling. It shows the character of that family. It shows the character of Patsy, especially. This and also how she got a nanny for some reason even though she could have easily been a stay at home mother. I'm real sick of people saying PR was a great mom. She got a nanny to shoo off the kids to someone else. If a person has a hugely busy life, I can get behind the idea of daycare. If both parents need to work. But in this case she didn't, and she didn't even really do anything.

Her failure to care for a little dog shows how much dedication she actually has to caregiving. My mom was/is the same way. Even with the nanny for no reason part. And she was an abusive, neglectful, alcoholic. She even had a dog she never took care of, and gave away without a tear shed. He too was not housebroken. If someone can't even take care of their own kids how on earth can they housebreak and train a dog? Also, believe this or not, his name was Jacques. (Not a Bichon, though.) Guess this was the name for a dog for rich ...witches in this time period.

I have one thought about the weapon and John's request for his golf clubs. It may be that the golf clubs request was a red herring... maybe not intentionally. Maybe, though. But anyway, old rich men cherish their golf clubs. They cost like thousands of dollars, sometimes per each club. It COULD be that the reason he requested his clubs was because he didn't want the common folks like the cops stealing his fancy clubs. Probably this is why they removed oil paintings, too, if I read that part correctly. If Patsy had fur coats, I bet these were removed. Rich people are always fearing that anyone middle class and under has only one plan in mind and that's stealing their stuff. I guess sometimes they're right, ... but probably not cops investigating a murder...

I'm with you about Patsy. I'm sick of people saying she was this loving super mom. What else did she do with those kids besides JBs pageants? Judging my her Christmas newsletter, not a lot. And if you ask me, the pageants were more about Patsy than Jonbenet. Patsy may not have been Miss America, but dammit Jonbenet would be. I wonder if she'd be getting breast implants for JB at the age of 13 if she was still around? What did she do Christmas day? Did she play with JB? Did she play with Burke's toys? Nope, she did her hair. John went and played with his plane. She gave away JBs dog for Christ's sake! And she had a housekeeper to look after it! What the hell did she do? No job, apparently and she wasn't a good housekeeper. So what did she do all day?
 
I find it very disturbing that both children were having toiletry issues - the housekeeper said BR pooped on JB bed /candy = serious psych issue.....and JB was sitting around with poopy and urine soaked pants! Something was very wrong in that home.
 
I find it very disturbing that both children were having toiletry issues - the housekeeper said BR pooped on JB bed /candy = serious psych issue.....and JB was sitting around with poopy and urine soaked pants! Something was very wrong in that home.

Yeah I agree. Sometimes kids have toilet training issues. Sometimes it runs in families. But it can't be discounted that toileting issues also are one of the main symptoms of child abuse. Also it's one of the main things that lead to child abuse.

Maybe PR couldn't care less about potty training the kids just like she didn't care to train the dog. That's too much work for that pageant princess! That's what the NANNY is for! ... well that and shooing off the kids to the nanny anytime they started to cry, fuss, or stopped being a cute fashion accessory.
 
I'm not going to totally discount this theory Dave but here is my problem with it, if she was pushed, shoved or thrown in to something like a piece of furniture or tub, why not just say that she was bouncing on the bed, or screwing around in the bathroom and fell accidentally? Just call 911. There is a slight risk that JB would recover with a complete memory, but that was a lot less risky than intentionally murdering her and faking a kidnapping.

Sometimes I wonder if PR wanted to do that, but they couldn't because of JB's little "problem." It would have also been risky to let that be found.

IMO the reason that they proceeded after the head blow was because that injury was caused by something that they didn't think would be able to be explained away

That's a good point, but I have to confess that I've always wondered why one of them would be holding a flashlight or baseball bat at that particular moment.

But who knows, maybe I'm giving them too much credit. Maybe they were simply done with her like they were done with their dog, and broken beauty queen was no longer worthy to be their daughter.

That's rough, andreww. Still, one of the big things for me in this case is how they always seem to put themselves ahead of her. Everything was about THEIR pain, not hers.
 
No way. Burke would have acted like any other 9 year old and simply dropped everything and run away to the safety of his room.

I'm convinced that the flashlight was intentionally left out as evidence of an intruder. I'd love to know if the Ramsey's were asked about it by initial responders and what their response was. I guess that they would have denied ownership.


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A few things indicate he was not like "any other" nine-year-old, including his habit of watching pilot training videos for entertainment. Including his reported detachment from the while episode.
 
I'm wondering about snooping for gifts, though. They already got all their gifts. That other stuff was for other people. Is snooping at gifts meant for adults and extended family a thing? I've never heard of it.

I agree with you that it seems unlikely someone would swing a bat or golf club down in that cluttered basement and not break tons of things in the process - or leave evidence of damage. I'm not sure where the head blow took place.

Could there be another reason for snooping around with a flashlight besides gifts, I wonder?

I still can't help but to wonder if this happened very soon after arriving back home. I.E. between 9:45 and 11pm. She only ate so little pineapple - it could be that something interrupted her. A fight perhaps.

Burke's birthday was in a couple of weeks, so perhaps he wanted to snoop for his own presents.
 
.

That's a good point, but I have to confess that I've always wondered why one of them would be holding a flashlight or baseball bat at that particular moment.

That's the way I approach evidence as well Dave, think about why it is there and how it fits in to the puzzle.

The flashlight is a strange clue. It is not hard to fathom a scenario where the flashlight is used during the clean up stage. The simply didn't want neighbors to know the were up at that hour. But if you theorize that the flashlight was the weapon used, you also have to explain how and why it was readily accessible to the person that used it. Prior to the crime there was no need to conceal their actions from neighbors, and presumably the house had lights, so what's the point? IMO the most reasonable explanation is that the kids we sneaking around. We also have the open presents in the basement, so it makes sense that they were the object of the mission.

I just can't come up with a scenario that puts that flashlight in John or Patsy's hands. That would be my main reason for suspecting Burke as being the person that struck her as well.


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A few things indicate he was not like "any other" nine-year-old, including his habit of watching pilot training videos for entertainment. Including his reported detachment from the while episode.

Again, you are taking Patsy's words as gospel. At that point of the investigation it was obvious that LE was trying to make a link to all the obvious movie references found in the ransom note. The fact that a number of framed movie posters adorned the home led them to believe that the Ramsey's may have been well acquainted with these films. As the parents repeatedly did during this investigation, the once again wrote Burke out of the scene saying he didn't watch TV or movies and only watched pilot training video type things. They also said Burke was asleep when they called 911 and that Burke didn't own HiTek boots, etc etc.


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So I just learned something that I think may put some things into question for some. Maybe everyone already knew this.


otg made a post at FFJ http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?10160-Weapon-used-on-JonBenet-s-skull-golf-club-or-flashlight Where he shows exactly on JB's head the wound is.

From the photo of her skull cap, it looks like it is right on top of her head. The wound however, is much more to the back of her head and lower towards her neck. I highly recommend reading the post.

This has convinced me even further it could not have been the flashlight. The angle would be too strange.

This also suggests she was hit from behind. If not, then she was thrown. I can see being thrown onto the back of the head more easily than being thrown and hitting the top of the head. I still see it as more likely that she was hit however, from the amount of force required.
 
I still believe BR delivered the blow to her head by accident, and both her parents were aware. PR conceived the kidnapping and cover-up, JR carried out most of the staging with PR's assistance. JR took took the action that ended her life. PR penned the ransom note, likely by herself.

What I can't reconcile is what was so secret that drove them to such unthinkable acts to JBR? She was still alive after the head blow. I can't connect the dots from an accident by a child to a murder by a parent.

If BR were a few years older, I could draw the conclusion. But he was nine years old and seemingly immature at that.

The only reason I can think they sexually assaulted her at/near death was to cover up prior abuse. And that would be a secret for the R's to hide, hence the kidnapping and cover-up. Was it really BR who was sexually abusing her?

I don't think JR was ( no evidence points to him) and I don't think PR was doing anything hygiene-wise that could be that bad to cover up.

I guess when you eliminate all other things, what remains is.
 

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