RDI Theories & Discussion ONLY!

[cynic]

Does anyone remember a journalist deeply involved in JBR case who went on to become an attorney? TIA

Jeff Shapiro fits that description.

 

[cynic]

Some perspective on the location of the ransom note.
With regard to Fernie, either he was lying, or the note was moved by someone to an area much closer than the original location where John Ramsey claims to have been reading it.
The picture below shows the location of the ransom note spread out before John and Patsy near the phone in the kitchen. The view is facing west.

The next picture shows things from the perspective of the crime scene photo. The view is that of facing north. Note the hall light in the crime scene pic.

The last picture is a view facing south toward the patio. Silhouettes in the center pic show Patsy in the hall by the entrance to the kitchen and John reading the note.
(Not that I personally believe any of this, but it is a depiction of what they claim happened.)
I believe Patsy wrote the note in the kitchen near where the Sharpie marker was found and the note was then placed on the floor prior to the call to the BPD.
The story about the RN being found on the staircase was likely part of an effort to frame an “insider”, most notably LHP (initially).
18 THOMAS HANEY: And I think you
19 indicated somewhere before that a lot of times
20 you would leave things --
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
22 THOMAS HANEY: -- on the steps
23 there?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
25 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Like -- okay.
0314
1 Remind you, hey, next time you're going up, take
2 this up. Who would know or who would have seen
3 this practice?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Leaving the
5 staircase a lot and leaving things sitting out?
6 THOMAS HANEY: Yes.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the
8 housekeeper, certainly.
1998 LE Interview

The later placement of the RN on the floor was possibly to make it more believable that the note was not handled much. It would make the lack of fingerprints more plausible.
It would be extremely unlikely that there would be no fingerprints from John on the note if he held it in his hand while reading it in its entirety.

The depiction in the following clip from Perfect Murder, Perfect Town is fairly accurate in terms of the location of the note, but it looks as if it might be a little too far north.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNGUD3jqcs

General background info:

PR: . . .right there by the TV room.
TT: Okay um. . .
PR: He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched over the note
and had it laid out there on the floor cause there was a light. It was still kind of
darkish and there was a light, hallway light on . . .
[SNIP]
TT: Okay. Okay. So you are in there making the 911 call. John’s out in the hallway
reading the note, um . . .
PR: ell, I mean we were real, (the implied word is “close&#8221 the phone’s right here and he was right there.
TT: Right.
PR: I mean it’s just . . .
TT: Right around the corner. Okay.
1997 LE Interview

2 TOM HANEY: And again the area we
3 are talking about you have marked with an X
4 where you see him.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
6 TOM HANEY: Would you just show us
7 where those pages are, put a 1, 2, and 3 how
8 they are laid out?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Here he was facing
10 this one.
11 TOM HANEY: He is facing to the
12 south and that's according to the north on the
13 diagram?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TOM HANEY: Okay, he is there, he
16 was in his underwear on his hands and knees. I
17 think that's a wood floor there?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay. Is there a light
20 on there then?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, just this hall
22 light here.
1998 LE Interview

 

[DeeDee249]

My vote is JF was lying.

 

[elannia]

Some perspective on the location of the ransom note.
With regard to Fernie, either he was lying, or the note was moved by someone to an area much closer than the original location where John Ramsey claims to have been reading it.
The picture below shows the location of the ransom note spread out before John and Patsy near the phone in the kitchen. The view is facing west.

The next picture shows things from the perspective of the crime scene photo. The view is that of facing north. Note the hall light in the crime scene pic.

The last picture is a view facing south toward the patio. Silhouettes in the center pic show Patsy in the hall by the entrance to the kitchen and John reading the note.
(Not that I personally believe any of this, but it is a depiction of what they claim happened.)
I believe Patsy wrote the note in the kitchen near where the Sharpie marker was found and the note was then placed on the floor prior to the call to the BPD.
The story about the RN being found on the staircase was likely part of an effort to frame an “insider”, most notably LHP (initially).
18 THOMAS HANEY: And I think you
19 indicated somewhere before that a lot of times
20 you would leave things --
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
22 THOMAS HANEY: -- on the steps
23 there?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
25 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Like -- okay.
0314
1 Remind you, hey, next time you're going up, take
2 this up. Who would know or who would have seen
3 this practice?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Leaving the
5 staircase a lot and leaving things sitting out?
6 THOMAS HANEY: Yes.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the
8 housekeeper, certainly.
1998 LE Interview

The later placement of the RN on the floor was possibly to make it more believable that the note was not handled much. It would make the lack of fingerprints more plausible.
It would be extremely unlikely that there would be no fingerprints from John on the note if he held it in his hand while reading it in its entirety.

The depiction in the following clip from Perfect Murder, Perfect Town is fairly accurate in terms of the location of the note, but it looks as if it might be a little too far north.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNGUD3jqcs

General background info:

PR: . . .right there by the TV room.
TT: Okay um. . .
PR: He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched over the note
and had it laid out there on the floor cause there was a light. It was still kind of
darkish and there was a light, hallway light on . . .
[SNIP]
TT: Okay. Okay. So you are in there making the 911 call. John’s out in the hallway
reading the note, um . . .
PR: ell, I mean we were real, (the implied word is “close”) the phone’s right here and he was right there.
TT: Right.
PR: I mean it’s just . . .
TT: Right around the corner. Okay.
1997 LE Interview

2 TOM HANEY: And again the area we
3 are talking about you have marked with an X
4 where you see him.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
6 TOM HANEY: Would you just show us
7 where those pages are, put a 1, 2, and 3 how
8 they are laid out?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Here he was facing
10 this one.
11 TOM HANEY: He is facing to the
12 south and that's according to the north on the
13 diagram?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TOM HANEY: Okay, he is there, he
16 was in his underwear on his hands and knees. I
17 think that's a wood floor there?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay. Is there a light
20 on there then?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, just this hall
22 light here.
1998 LE Interview

Thank you, thank you, cynic!!!, that was an excellent description

 

[DeDee]

Jeff Shapiro fits that description.

Yes. Jeffrey Scott Shapiro is the name I needed for I did not realize he became an attorney in 2005.

A confidential source, whom I cannot disclose, told me that "the investigative journalist turned lawyer knows who killed JonBenét Ramsey".

"Shapiro felt compassion for the people his editors were targeting, and eventually he called John Ramsey personally to apologize for his participation in the tabloid accusations against him.[11] After apologizing to John Ramsey, Shapiro walked into the Denver Federal Building to report his editors for conspiring to blackmail lead Boulder Detective Steve Thomas for sealed grand jury evidence. He also told a team of FBI agents about how his editors engaged in commercial bribery and illegal information brokering.[10]"

"Shapiro has also defended members of JonBenét Ramsey's family whom he believes are innocent. In a Denver Post article in which he challenged tabloid accusations against JonBenet's older brother, Burke Ramsey, Shapiro quoted American poet Ella Wheeler Wilcox saying, "To sin by silence when we should protest is what makes cowards of men."[28]"

"Shapiro has continuously worked on the JonBenét Ramsey murder case for 15 years since 1997, and in 2011 he chronicled his search for the little girl's killer, revealing his belief that her mother, Patsy Ramsey was most likely the killer.[30] Despite his belief that Patsy Ramsey was most likely the killer, Shapiro has also spent considerable time personally tracking down intruder suspects and turning over information as well as evidence to law enforcement officials.[31] Shapiro has publicly called upon the FBI to take over the case from Boulder authorities and has also criticized former District Attorney Mary Lacy for clearing the Ramseys against the advice of the Boulder Police Department and Lacy's predecessor, District Attorney Alex Hunter.[32][33]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Scott_Shapiro

PS ~ cynic, I got a nice chuckle out of your depiction of John Ramsey on his hands and knees reading the three page Ransom Note.

MOO and all that jazz

 

[Cranberry]

Re Santa letter found in JB's wastebasket

For the record here is where Patsy all but admits she wrote and threw away the letter (from the Christmas poems she wrote for the 12/23 kids party). In this 6/98 interview she is vague and non-committal, a smart move, leaving the door open for a mystery IMO.

TOM HANEY: Here we go, this is 292.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, see, that's not the
11 same.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay, it's not?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Unh-unh (no).
14 TRIP DeMUTH: The photo of the --
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Facing the -- the preprinted
16 stationery is not the same.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
0559
1 (NOTE: THE FOLLOWING PORTION OF THE TRANSCRIPT
2 HAD NO VIDEO, ONLY AUDIO.)
3 TRIP DeMUTH: How about marking
4 this.
5 VOICE: Yes, does it look like it's
6 that portion of it, though?
7 VOICE: With the pen over
8 (INAUDIBLE).
9 TRIP DeMUTH: Kind of looks like
10 the writing goes through this little design.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Which is a horn and
13 --
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TRIP DeMUTH: -- some --
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, could be, but
17 this type would be a lot bigger. I mean, see
18 that --
19 TRIP DeMUTH: That takes up most of
20 the gap between here and there.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes. I did it with
22 special (INAUDIBLE) during the holidays at
23 Christmas and might (INAUDIBLE).
24 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: I don't know.
0560
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Hum? I can't -- I
2 can't tell.
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: This looks to me
5 like a lot bigger than that. I mean if you had
6 the real thing, I could tell for sure.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: I don't think we
8 collected that.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: I know, yeah.
10 TRIP DeMUTH: So looking at that
11 though, it doesn't ring any bells, you don't --
12 the poems you wrote -- I mean you have referred
13 this now that's in this photograph, you read the
14 portion that you can see.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
16 TRIP DeMUTH: That doesn't jog your
17 memory as being part of the poem that you wrote?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, it could be.
19 I mean, I don't know. I just can't see it well
20 enough.
21 TRIP DeMUTH: Right, okay.
22 TRIP DeMUTH: You know there is a C
23 at the end there you can see, Merry Christmas.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
25 TRIP DeMUTH: And also looks like
0561
1 it signed off there at the bottom.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: "Love you all".
3 TRIP DeMUTH: Love you all, Merry
4 Christmas.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Maybe that's the
6 end.
7 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you do that at
8 the end of your poems, those Christmas poems?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE). Was
10 the whole thing in that note, you know that
11 (INAUDIBLE) in the center there?
12 TRIP DeMUTH: Was --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Was there more pages
14 than what was sort of just the picture, because
15 usually there was something about everybody's
16 party because I knew who was going to be there
17 so --
18 TRIP DeMUTH: We will look for that
19 stuff. What we wanted to do is just explore
20 your memory by showing you --
21 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS.)
22 PATSY RAMSEY: It could be, but it
23 doesn't look proportionate, but if it is, maybe
24 it just a, you know, one that goofed and I threw
25 it away or something.
0562
1 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
2 TOM HANEY: Well, we have finished
3 the photos.

 

[Sophie Valentine]

I'm not sure where I should post this, but I want to comment about Kolar's book, Foreign Faction. I've had it on the bookshelf for awhile now, and just got around to reading it. I bought it used from Amazon, since it is not on the shelves of my local library.

Imagine my surprise to find out the book is signed by Kolar himself. And then my further surprise to see all of the typos and errors. There is actually a sticker in the front of the book with a handful of specific page references and corrections to the content.

Also, in a few places in the book someone has apparently covered up words or phrases with what looks like White Out Tape, which has a specific texture. You can feel the raised tape on the page. I held up at least one of the impacted pages to the light, and it looked like at least one of the taped-out parts referred to Diane Sawyer (like, mentioning that she interviewed the Ramsey's on NBC....because hasn't she spent her entire career on ABC?)

I'm not implying that the rest of Kolar's content isn't factual, but I've been a voracious reader for most of my life, and I've never seen a book published with errors that were obviously noted by the author, publisher, etc.

Maybe it was self-published by Kolar?

 

[UKGuy]

My vote is JF was lying.

DeeDee249,
Well, well. Wonder why JF would lie? From memory it was JF and FW who removed BR from the house that morning?

If we can nail JF down on his inability to physically read the RN through the glass, i.e. was there enough light so early in the morning? Then maybe we have another candidate for a conspiracy.

You are spot on regarding PR's account about JR kneeling to read the RN in his underwear, why? Seems like the R's including JF confused their version of events for some unknown reason?

.

 

[UKGuy]

Some perspective on the location of the ransom note.
With regard to Fernie, either he was lying, or the note was moved by someone to an area much closer than the original location where John Ramsey claims to have been reading it.
The picture below shows the location of the ransom note spread out before John and Patsy near the phone in the kitchen. The view is facing west.

The next picture shows things from the perspective of the crime scene photo. The view is that of facing north. Note the hall light in the crime scene pic.

The last picture is a view facing south toward the patio. Silhouettes in the center pic show Patsy in the hall by the entrance to the kitchen and John reading the note.
(Not that I personally believe any of this, but it is a depiction of what they claim happened.)
I believe Patsy wrote the note in the kitchen near where the Sharpie marker was found and the note was then placed on the floor prior to the call to the BPD.
The story about the RN being found on the staircase was likely part of an effort to frame an “insider”, most notably LHP (initially).
18 THOMAS HANEY: And I think you
19 indicated somewhere before that a lot of times
20 you would leave things --
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
22 THOMAS HANEY: -- on the steps
23 there?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
25 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Like -- okay.
0314
1 Remind you, hey, next time you're going up, take
2 this up. Who would know or who would have seen
3 this practice?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Leaving the
5 staircase a lot and leaving things sitting out?
6 THOMAS HANEY: Yes.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the
8 housekeeper, certainly.
1998 LE Interview

The later placement of the RN on the floor was possibly to make it more believable that the note was not handled much. It would make the lack of fingerprints more plausible.
It would be extremely unlikely that there would be no fingerprints from John on the note if he held it in his hand while reading it in its entirety.

The depiction in the following clip from Perfect Murder, Perfect Town is fairly accurate in terms of the location of the note, but it looks as if it might be a little too far north.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtNGUD3jqcs

General background info:

PR: . . .right there by the TV room.
TT: Okay um. . .
PR: He, I remember him, while I was calling 911, he was hunched over the note
and had it laid out there on the floor cause there was a light. It was still kind of
darkish and there was a light, hallway light on . . .
[SNIP]
TT: Okay. Okay. So you are in there making the 911 call. John’s out in the hallway
reading the note, um . . .
PR: ell, I mean we were real, (the implied word is “close”) the phone’s right here and he was right there.
TT: Right.
PR: I mean it’s just . . .
TT: Right around the corner. Okay.
1997 LE Interview

2 TOM HANEY: And again the area we
3 are talking about you have marked with an X
4 where you see him.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
6 TOM HANEY: Would you just show us
7 where those pages are, put a 1, 2, and 3 how
8 they are laid out?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Here he was facing
10 this one.
11 TOM HANEY: He is facing to the
12 south and that's according to the north on the
13 diagram?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
15 TOM HANEY: Okay, he is there, he
16 was in his underwear on his hands and knees. I
17 think that's a wood floor there?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay. Is there a light
20 on there then?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes, just this hall
22 light here.
1998 LE Interview

cynic,
By definition if JR has to kneel to read the RN, how would JF be able identify the RN as such through a glass window that would distort what he could see by a lack of direct light and diffraction?

Sounds to me as if JF had already discussed what he might find with the R's including, we want to get BR out of here ASAP!

Sounds to me, that minimally, JF was colluding with the R's in their version of events, and maximally was party to a conspiracy?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm not sure where I should post this, but I want to comment about Kolar's book, Foreign Faction. I've had it on the bookshelf for awhile now, and just got around to reading it. I bought it used from Amazon, since it is not on the shelves of my local library.

Imagine my surprise to find out the book is signed by Kolar himself. And then my further surprise to see all of the typos and errors. There is actually a sticker in the front of the book with a handful of specific page references and corrections to the content.

Also, in a few places in the book someone has apparently covered up words or phrases with what looks like White Out Tape, which has a specific texture. You can feel the raised tape on the page. I held up at least one of the impacted pages to the light, and it looked like at least one of the taped-out parts referred to Diane Sawyer (like, mentioning that she interviewed the Ramsey's on NBC....because hasn't she spent her entire career on ABC?)

I'm not implying that the rest of Kolar's content isn't factual, but I've been a voracious reader for most of my life, and I've never seen a book published with errors that were obviously noted by the author, publisher, etc.

Maybe it was self-published by Kolar?

I think it was self-published, and NO, spelling errors and typos have no bearing on whether his material is factual.

 

[DeDee]

My vote is JF was lying.

I agree. I have seen a Christmas wreath hanging on that door either in a picture or else it was in the movie "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town". Patsy had everything else decorated. There is no reason to lead me to believe the door was left bare.

 

[andreww]

DeeDee249,
Well, well. Wonder why JF would lie? From memory it was JF and FW who removed BR from the house that morning?

If we can nail JF down on his inability to physically read the RN through the glass, i.e. was there enough light so early in the morning? Then maybe we have another candidate for a conspiracy.

You are spot on regarding PR's account about JR kneeling to read the RN in his underwear, why? Seems like the R's including JF confused their version of events for some unknown reason?

.

I have no reason to believe that JF lied. Why would he. When I was a little younger, before old age started to take its toll, My eyes were far better than 20/20 and I used to challenge myself at reading small print at long distances. I have no doubt that someone with good eyesight could read that letter from a distance. After all, why would he lie about that? And I don't think he ever said he read the whole not, just enough to know something was seriously wrong.

 

[UKGuy]

I have no reason to believe that JF lied. Why would he. When I was a little younger, before old age started to take its toll, My eyes were far better than 20/20 and I used to challenge myself at reading small print at long distances. I have no doubt that someone with good eyesight could read that letter from a distance. After all, why would he lie about that? And I don't think he ever said he read the whole not, just enough to know something was seriously wrong.

andreww,
BBM: That is the object of the exercise, if we believed everything we were told, we would all be hunting for a mythical intruder.

It was early morning and JF was looking through glass, not optimal conditions for reading, lets assume, size-8 or size-10 print on an A4 sheet of paper, which JR has foresight to say he knelt down to read!

Also whether JF is telling the truth depends on which version of events you select. Maybe a blast of air blow the RN off the stairs, who knows.

Was the RN located where PR said it was or where JF said he saw it, are the two statements consistent, i.e. maybe JF is correct and PR is lying?

.

 

[andreww]

Hmm, who do I believe, PR or JF? I'll have to think about that one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cynic]

cynic,
By definition if JR has to kneel to read the RN, how would JF be able identify the RN as such through a glass window that would distort what he could see by a lack of direct light and diffraction?

John Ramsey did have vision problems – cataracts, but, for me, his tale of reading the RN on the floor has never rung true.

Officer French would be able to clarify what happened to the note in terms of its movement from the floor where it was allegedly read by John (and the location marked in the 1998 LE interview,) to the placement on the spiral staircase where it was photographed by crime scene techs.
Presently, from what is available publically, it’s not clear whether French was handed the note or whether he read it at the location where JR claims to have read it.
If French was handed the note, would he have dropped it back on the hall floor for some reason only to later pick it up again and place it on the spiral staircase?
If the note was pointed out to him on the floor, did he pick it up to read it only to drop it again at the same location, or would he have dropped it closer to the patio door.
Would he have dropped it back on the floor at all if the intention was to ultimately place it on the spiral staircase?
One thing is clear, John Fernie (who was 51 years old in 1996) would have had to have vision in the range of 20/15 to even have the slightest chance of resolving any part of the ransom note. Given the fact that he was attempting to read handwriting upside down and at an angle in sub-optimal lighting, how probable is JF’s story if the note was left where John Ramsey claims he read it?
The only advantage John Fernie would have had would be that he was probably familiar with Patsy’s handwriting.

What if the note was moved closer to the door?
The complicating factor in a location closer to the door is that presumably it would then be in a poorly-lit area because, according to John, the location some 10 – 11 feet away from the patio door where he claims to have read it had the best lighting.
If JF lied, why did he lie? It’s certainly possible that he may have seen the paper on the floor – maybe he simply embellished the story to make it seem more interesting?

• (For anyone interested, I have a link to a reasonably print-worthy picture of the first page of the ransom note which you can print, place 10 – 11 feet away, and attempt to read.)
http://i57.tinypic.com/szc0fq.jpg (Right click, "Save target as")

Other than the issue of vision, there is another factor that makes it more probable that JF was lying.
JF claims he didn’t know why Patsy had called, and foremost in his thinking was that John Ramsey must have had a heart attack.
Why, if JF thought that John Ramsey may be having a heart attack, did he stop and fixate on a piece of paper (or papers, depending on which version you believe) on the floor, facing the other direction, long enough to allegedly determine that JonBenet had been kidnapped rather than immediately running to another door after finding the first one locked. Why was he wasting precious time reading an upside down piece of paper???

• Did JF see one sheet of paper or several?

Before he finished reading the ransom note, he told Patsy to call the police. Immediately afterward, Patsy called the Whites and Fernies and told them something terrible had happened. “Barbara, get over here as fast as you can,” she said to her friend. Seven minutes after Patsy’s call to 911, Officer French was at their front door.
John Fernie told the police that he was the first of the Ramseys’ friends to arrive. His wife, Barbara, came later in her car. As Fernie drove over, he thought that John must have had a heart attack, since Patsy hadn’t told his wife what had happened.
Fernie parked his car in the alley behind the Ramseys’ house and ran to the patio door on the south side, which he always used. It was locked. When he looked through the glass-paneled door, the lights were on and he could see some papers lying on the wooden floor. They were not facing him, but from where he stood, he could read the first few lines of one page. That was all he needed. He understood immediately that JonBenét had been kidnapped. Once inside the house, he read the entire ransom note. At first he thought it was bizarre, then later he saw it as perverse.
A few minutes later, John Ramsey tried to phone his pilot, Mike Archuleta, to tell him what had happened and learned that the pilot was already on his way to the airport for the Ramseys’ scheduled flight to Michigan. When Archuleta returned Ramsey’s call, Patsy answered. Archuleta told the police that Patsy had been hysterical, barely coherent. She was now being consoled by her friends when a second officer, Karl Veitch, arrived. The police then paged Mary Lou Jedamus, a victim advocate.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 78

John Fernie: "I drove my car into the -- up the alley and parked in the back of your house, and went around to the patio door, which was a glass door leading into the kitchen and back of the house, and didn't see anybody, but saw a piece of paper laying on the floor. Looked at that. It was facing the other direction. Read it. And after the first few lines realized something very strange was happening. And so I ran around to the front of the house and knocked on the door and was let in."
John Fernie: "I didn't pick it up. It was inside the door and I was outside. The door was locked. I read it through the door."
John Fernie: "Fleet and Priscilla White were there when I arrived. And my wife came shortly thereafter. And our -- Haverstock, our priest, came afterwards as well."
John Fernie: "My recollection is that later in the day, when we were waiting for phone calls from the supposed kidnappers, we were sitting in the back room with a detective and trying to figure out what the note meant. And there was a copy of the note. I don't know if it was the note, or a copy of the note, actually."
Deposition of John Fernie, Colorado v Miller, June 13, 2001

• By the way, who was there first, JF or FW?

At 6:00 A.M. the telephone awakened Cliff Gaston. It was Patsy Ramsey. Priscilla took the call, and within minutes the Whites were dressed and on their way to the Ramseys’ house. When they arrived, the police and John Fernie were already there.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 30

• With respect to the location of the RN when the police arrived, there are conflicting stories. In the 1998 interview, JR claims he handed the RN to Officer French, however the account in ST’s book and in the Bonita Papers indicates that the RN was left on the floor where JR initially read it.

LOU SMIT: Just try to take it in slow steps. You know what you did with the officer and how you proceeded then; (INAUDIBLE)?
JOHN RAMSEY: We were standing in the hallway. We were handing him the note trying to explain and convince him that we had a problem. And at some point he asked us all to go into this room here and stay there.
LOU SMIT: That's the solarium?
JOHN RAMSEY: Right. The Fernies and the Whites were arriving at sometime between - I think he got there first. But at some point he kind of shepherded us all in there and asked us all to stay there. (INAUDIBLE)
LOU SMIT: What did you do with the note?
JOHN RAMSEY: I gave it to him. I think at that point he kept it. I mean I don't remember him giving it back to me. I do remember later we had, I think they made copies but we had it spread out on the table back here just trying to figure out what we could figure out.
1998 LE interview

"Another tech saw the ransom note on the bottom step of the spiral staircase and photographed it there. But the photograph lied. The note had traveled from the stairs, possibly into Patsy's hands, then had been spread out on the hallway floor where John Ramsey and the police had read it, and French had put it back on the stairs. The photograph, which was supposed to show exactly where evidence had been discovered, was inaccurate."
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 20

Officer Rick French was dispatched to 755 15th Street in Boulder at approximately 5:52 a.m. on the report of a possible kidnapping. He was met at the door by the distraught Patsy and by John who told him that their six-year-old daughter was missing and their nine-year-old son was asleep upstairs. Patsy, hysterical and apparently confused about the sequence of the mornings events, told officer French that she went into JonBenet’s bedroom at approximately 5:45 a.m. that morning to wake her up for the trip and saw that she was not in bed. As she was coming down the spiral staircase she found the note stating that her daughter had been kidnapped. John then led French through the house and pointed out a three page handwritten note which still lay on the hallway floor next to the kitchen.
-Bonita Papers

 

[andreww]

Looking at the diagrams on the previous page I would estimate that the note lay on the floor at a distance of about twice the width of the door. A typical door width is about 30", so it looks as though the note was probably a little more than 60", probably closer to 70" or about 6 feet from the door JF claims to have read it from. As an experiment I printed out a clean copy of the note, and even with my eyes that are a little older than JFs were at the time, I was easily able to read the upside down note at 6 feet. At 8 feet I was able to make out the first couple of lines, but the angle of viewing and sloppy handwriting makes it hard to read the rest of it. Remember that JF only claimed to read the first couple of lines. It isn't until about the 7th line that the kidnapping is mentioned, but Fernie only said that he read the first few lines and new something strange was going on. He did not say that he knew JB had been kidnapped at that point.

So from my tests I think what JF said in not only believable, but quite probable.

 

[madeleine]

the RN was the biggest mistake the killer/stager did ....not ONE single person believed what was written in it!not the parents,not the friends,not the cops,not even the Ramsey team.if the note didn't exist I would have found it easier (maybe) to believe that IDI is possible.

ETA:

don't actually have a problem with the content of the note(even if it's pretty ridiculous)...but with the fact that nobody had any reactions to it (especially the huge THREATS re JB's life)

 

[andreww]

the RN was the biggest mistake the killer/stager did ....not ONE single person believed what was written in it!not the parents,not the friends,not the cops,not even the Ramsey team.if the note didn't exist I would have found it easier (maybe) to believe that IDI is possible.

ETA:

don't actually have a problem with the content of the note(even if it's pretty ridiculous)...but with the fact that nobody had any reactions to it (especially the huge THREATS re JB's life)

I beg to differ. The ransom note was absolutely necessary for the Ramseys. If they had called the cops saying our daughter is dead (or simply missing), LE would have immediately looked at the three surviving people in that house as prime suspects as there really was no evidence of an intruder or forced entry. The note allowed the Ramsey's the opportunity to gather their posse of friends and contaminate the murder scene. The note also allowed John the opportunity to find the body and cast doubt on any forensic evidence that was found on it. I would say with certainty that without that note, the Ramsey's would have been in jail almost immediately.

 

[otg]

(Linked for reference, snipped for brevity):

• By the way, who was there first, JF or FW?

Cynic, no one can take such a complicated issue as this business about Fernie's reading the RN and illustrate it in such a way that it makes sense like you can. I’m sure I speak for a lot of people when I say a simple “thank you” isn't enough.

It’s unbelievable that this long after this happened, we still don’t have clarity on so many of the issues that would help to understand (maybe) what happened.

I always felt that if we knew the order and time of certain events, a picture of what could have happened might emerge (or at least make some things a little more clear). For instance, I think knowing the order of the various searches in the basement by different individuals is important because of John's account of the location of the chair when he went in, when the WC latch was locked or not locked, lights on/lights off, and who changed each one of these items before the next person went in to look around. (How could Fleet White have looked into the WC and not seen the white blanket?)

This is the reason I felt a timeline would be useful, and why I’ve been trying (with a lot of help from questfortrue) to come up with something. But with so many different versions (and how do we know what to believe about anything that comes out of a Ramsey mouth) conflicting with one another, it becomes almost impossible. Cynic, you mention in your post #1027 the conflicting information on whether the Whites or the Fernies arrived at the Ramsey house first. This is just one example of how confusing it all becomes when trying to put it all together.

• According to Schiller, Offcs. Rick French and Karl Veitch arrive at 5:59 am., and French searches basement “shortly after arrival”.
• Kolar has French arriving alone at 5:59 am and meeting Sgt. Reichenbach at the front door when he arrives at 6:10 am (not likely enough time for French to have spoken with Ramseys, searched the basement, and then get back up to the first floor to meet Reichenbach). After a briefing from French, Kolar has Reichenbach conducting a search (in part with John Ramsey) of “all three floors, including the basement.” Kolar doesn't mention Veitch.
• According to Kolar and the Bonita Papers, the Fernies arrived before the Whites (most other sources have the Whites arriving before the Fernies, and I would tend to believe John Fernie’s court testimony over any writer’s version).
• Schiller has Offcs. Weiss, Barcklow, and Sgt. Reichenbach all arriving at 6:45 am.
• Kolar only mentions Reichenbach arriving after French at 6:10 am.

With all this conflicting information, is it even possible to put together a reasonable timeline of the events that morning?

I don’t know the answer. But maybe if I put out here what I’ve got so far, with input from other posters maybe we can come up with something helpful.



(Note to questfortrue: Since this timeline has been a joint project, do you have anything to add?)

 

[elannia]

Has anyone read Henry Lee's book, Cracking more Cases? It talks about the JBR murder in it and according to him JF was already there when FW arrived, JR took a walk with JF and Dr Beuf(thats weird to me since he was JB dr and he didnt want to turn over the kids medical records), Dr Lee says that MR and JAR were driven to the airport after gifts Christmas morning(which is false?, because they were going to meet up in Charlevoix) but in his book the lights were on in the basement when FW made his first trip down. I havent finished reading his book yet, just wanted to point out a few things. Acandyrose JF testimony, he says F and PW were already there when he arrived, his wife Barbara came after. So who the heck was there first?, FW or JF, and why is that such a big mystery(well to me anyways)