Read this and tell me the Ramseys aren't hiding something ...

[Jayelles]

Original posted by Cherokee
What innocent loving parents would care about terms and conditions and wait FOUR MONTHS until being interviewed by LE? And even then, the meeting was only held under terms DICTATED by the Ramseys.

That they did not sit down with police for 4 months is something that the Ramseys cannot deny. They had lawyers to protect their rights and no-one would really blame them for having their lawyers attend police interviews - I for one would consider that to be prudent.

Toth says that the lawyers advised them not to speak to the polcie. What? Lawyers thought that the principal witnesses should not assist a police investigation?

Above ALL else, it is the Ramseys failure to assist with the murder investigation along with their attempts to dictate how the investigation should be conducted which vilifies them in the public eye. That cannot be changed. Of course, the Ramseys could always come clean and admit fault there - OR they could sue their previous lawyers for giving them the bad advice which led to the destruction of their reputations...... Now THAT would be a big bucks lawsuit methinks. I wonder if the lawyers would settle and if not, what their defence would consist of?

 

[Nehemiah]

I doubt that. I can't understand why anyone ever suspected the parents. I surely can't understand why anyone suspects them now.

Toth, I really don't want to suspect the parents. In fact I go from one side of that fence to the other too much. However, their behavior about setting conditions with LE, etc..is too weird. It reminds me so much of the OJ saga whereby LE was blamed to create a diversion. That bothers me very much. I honestly can't see why that would occur unless there was something to hide. Regardless of what you say about the BPD not interviewing the Ramseys, the Ramseys could have gone to the police station and talked. I think posters here make very valid points in that regard. The Ramseys are educated adults who could have taken that responsibility upon themselves, regardless of anything else. To defend themselves along those lines, makes them appear guilty. Whether they are or not, they have created their own destinies in that regard.

 

[Toth]

It's all that bad advice they got

Ah, well now. You touch upon a very sensitive issue here. I am lgenerally loathe to criticize any member of the Colorado bar, however, I would point out that I would also have occasional doubts as to the wisdom of advice given to the Ramseys at certain early stages of the case. I would also point out that the primary purpose of the lawyers was to keep the Ramseys out of prison and allow Burke to raised by them rather than have merely occasional visits to a prison. The lawyers were NOT interested in the public relations aspects of the case. Perhaps they should have been more attuned to public relations, but it is no use having a very popular client in a jail cell. Its better to have your unpopular client out of a jail cell. The criminal lawyers focused on criminal law, not popularity. Perhaps this was unwise. Perhaps not.
But the function of the criminal lawyer was to keep their clients out of jail.
That is why the lawyers repeatedly advised against any meetings with the BPD but were repeatedly instructed by their clients that such meetings were to be arranged.

 

[Toth]

the Ramseys could have gone to the police station and talked.

And the BPD could have gone to the lawyer's conference room so that Patsy could have been questioned in a more comfortable atmosphere. They did not want to do that.

 

[Imon128]

Why on earth would they do that Toth? In a law abiding society the R's go to the BPD, as requested, not the R's calling the shots. Phtt. They made themselves look desperate to hide facts and to continue to try to control the investigation.

 

[Nehemiah]

And the BPD could have gone to the lawyer's conference room so that Patsy could have been questioned in a more comfortable atmosphere. They did not want to do that.

In a more comfortable atmosphere? It was an investigation into a brutal murder, not a beauty salon appointment.

That doesn't fly, Toth. You know that is not how things are done in an investigation. Bottom line is that the BPD was attempting to investigate that child's murder. The parents of that child were not doing all they could to assist in that investigation.

I think you just like to play devil's advocate, Toth. I know that you can see this side of this situation, even though you are a staunch R defender.

 

[Jayelles]

That is why the lawyers repeatedly advised against any meetings with the BPD but were repeatedly instructed by their clients that such meetings were to be arranged.

Yes - the lawyers were instructed to arrange the interviews with a list of unreasonable conditions attached - as dictated by the Ramseys. Conditions which they knew would be unacceptable to the police.

 

[why_nutt]

And the BPD could have gone to the lawyer's conference room so that Patsy could have been questioned in a more comfortable atmosphere. They did not want to do that.

There is no evidence that the law firm's conference room was more comfortable. Certainly John and Patsy, and Burke's legal representation, had no problem taking him to the appropriate venue of the Child Advocacy Center in Niwot for his January 1996 interview rather than insisting he be interviewed in his lawyer's conference room. Why was it okay for Burke to be interviewed outside of his lawyer's offices, but not for John and Patsy? And if Patsy was so doped up on medication, how did she manage to travel to Atlanta for JonBenet's funeral, and to Niwot, but not the few blocks to the BPD station?

 

[Imon128]

Toth, can you elaborate on how it would have been more 'comfortable' for the R's to go to their place of choice, rather than comply with LE's place of choice? Or are you saying that the R's comfort rated over getting to JB's killer? Lin Wood might agree with that, but this is America. It would imply that LE was so desperate to speak with this rich, famous, belligerent, couple that LE would bow to their wishes?

 

[K777angel]

Most such child murders are going to be in poor families with alcohol and drug problems... they rarely live in large homes.

Child abuse and sexual abuse know no class boundaries.

To suggest that children who live in small homes are more likely to be murdered shows your predjudice.

Rich people (who live in big homes) have the money and means to COVER UP abuses and crimes they have committed and are far less to be indicted let alone incarcerated. O.J. Simpson is a perfect example.
They have the money to hire the biggest and more influential and powerful and best attorneys who are far more likely to get them off. It happens all the time. The prisons are hardly full of rich people - and it is not because they sin less.

Human nature and sin infect us all. And it is not choosy about your bank account balance or the size of your home.

 

[Barbara]

Child abuse and sexual abuse know no class boundaries.

To suggest that children who live in small homes are more likely to be murdered shows your predjudice.

Rich people (who live in big homes) have the money and means to COVER UP abuses and crimes they have committed and are far less to be indicted let alone incarcerated. O.J. Simpson is a perfect example.
They have the money to hire the biggest and more influential and powerful and best attorneys who are far more likely to get them off. It happens all the time. The prisons are hardly full of rich people - and it is not because they sin less.

Human nature and sin infect us all. And it is not choosy about your bank account balance or the size of your home.

It is a well known fact and by fact I mean that every defense lawyer and talking head on TV, along with others including prosecutors agree that if Susan Smith had a lawyer, she would be a free woman today.

Some may see that as a bad thing, others as a good thing.

The point is that the Ramseys were able to buy their way into innocence (or at least not indicted) largely because they could afford to buy the attornies who in turn, had finanial and other interests with the DA, Alex Hunter. So in short, they bought the DA.

It's really very simple for those who see

 

[blueclouds]

I think Thomas is full of crap and arrogance. It was "ego" that got in his way big time. I couldn't even fathom the pain of finding your murdered child and then police wanting them to give lengthy interviews 2, 3 or 4 days after.
(I'm one of the few here who support Ramseys) and taking Thomas at his word when he had his OWN book to sell...

 

[Imon128]

Thomas is one of the few who were on the inside who is NOT full of crap. He exposed many nasties about the city of Boulder, and I for one, believe he truly wanted and still does, justice for JonBenet. What a wise person he is and what a battle he fought, more or less alone, to get to the bottom of this case. I respect him immensely.

 

[why_nutt]

I couldn't even fathom the pain of finding your murdered child and then police wanting them to give lengthy interviews 2, 3 or 4 days after.

It is done every day. And look at the situation from this perspective. When Patsy was trying to get her health checked out in 1993 because of confounding pains, she did not ask her various doctors to cater to her comfort levels. When the doctors wanted her to come to the hospital for tests, she went unconditionally. When the doctors wanted to shove cold metal instruments into her most private orifices, she put up with it. When the doctors asked intrusive personal questions about her most private issues like her menstrual cycles and her sexual activities, she answered without hesitation, because she knew that at the end of all these temporary intrusions into her comfortable life, she would come out with more knowledge than she had going in, and she knew that she would have a far better chance of reaching a resolution to her problems than she would have if she had simply sat stewing at home, complaining about why the doctors were asking for yet another blood sample when they had already taken several. Do you see? When Patsy saw it was in her best interests to comply with every request of her, even when that request may have ended up in her finding out she was facing a death sentence, she complied anyway, because compliance with the demands of people in authority would serve her long-term interests better than her short-term annoyances would.

 

[tipper]

It is done every day. And look at the situation from this perspective. When Patsy was trying to get her health checked out in 1993 because of confounding pains, she did not ask her various doctors to cater to her comfort levels. When the doctors wanted her to come to the hospital for tests, she went unconditionally. When the doctors wanted to shove cold metal instruments into her most private orifices, she put up with it. When the doctors asked intrusive personal questions about her most private issues like her menstrual cycles and her sexual activities, she answered without hesitation, because she knew that at the end of all these temporary intrusions into her comfortable life, she would come out with more knowledge than she had going in, and she knew that she would have a far better chance of reaching a resolution to her problems than she would have if she had simply sat stewing at home, complaining about why the doctors were asking for yet another blood sample when they had already taken several. Do you see? When Patsy saw it was in her best interests to comply with every request of her, even when that request may have ended up in her finding out she was facing a death sentence, she complied anyway, because compliance with the demands of people in authority would serve her long-term interests better than her short-term annoyances would.

And I would guess the lawyers told her (or perhaps just John) that that sort of compliance in this situation could result in them being railroaded for a crime they didn't commit.

Did you know that because of Innocence Projects around the country a wrongfully convicted person is released from jail every 18 days? And that figure would be higher except the evidence that would free them is discarded or destroyed on a regular basis. How many innocent people have we locked up or killed because of overly enthusiastic police and/or prosecutors or overcommitted and/or incompetent defense attorneys?

 

[Toth]

Quite alot, thats why a lawyer doesn't try to win in court, he tries to keep his client out of court in the first place.
If the Ramseys suffered some slings and arrows from the public and the press, so what? The lawyer's job is to keep them from having that cell door slam shut on them and seeing Burke through thick glass once every ninety days.

 

[Cain]

Talking about weird behaviour...

You find a ransom note where some kidnappers ask you for what (for you) is pocket money to have your daugther back and well... They warn you not to contact the police, nor to tell it to any people, because they would know and they would KILL your daugther, in that case.
Several secons later you are a) calling the police, b) not warning the police about the threats and not beggin for discretion, c) calling then some of your friends and ask them to come over in a rush!

For me, this is difficult to understand.

 

[Toth]

Perhaps it would be less difficult for you if consider that after reading the first few lines and realizing their import, nothing further of the note was read by Patsy Ramsey until the operator asked who 'does it say who took her' and Patsy read the end of the note "SBTC,,,Victory."

 

[why_nutt]

Perhaps it would be less difficult for you if consider that after reading the first few lines and realizing their import, nothing further of the note was read by Patsy Ramsey until the operator asked who 'does it say who took her' and Patsy read the end of the note "SBTC,,,Victory."

No, Patsy also read page two in the middle, because John attributes to her the statement "it says not to call the police," which is on page two. So Patsy read page one, page two, and page three.

 

[Shylock]

How many innocent people have we locked up or killed because of overly enthusiastic police and/or prosecutors or overcommitted and/or incompetent defense attorneys?

Just how many innocent parents do you think are locked up that went to the police station and didn't leave until the police were satisfied they had nothing to do with the crime?

The key word is "innocent". The Ramseys had something to hide so they weren't about to give the police unlimited cooperation.

imo