Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

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I would like to see either the defense or plaintiffs show us how a woman of Rebecca's stature can do the entire circus act (my words) of tying her feet, hands, gagging herself, hop over to a banister the same height as the balcony at Spreckles and throw herself over it. If that can be done, then why haven't they shown it. I think it was an excellent move by the defense to not call those witnesses. Very disappointing for the rest of us. All JMO.
 
Lilibet said:
If Greer had known that the defense was going to pull these witnesses at the last minute, could he have called them to testify for the plaintiff as hostile witnesses? I hope he makes the point in his final argument that the defense pulled witnesses who could have testified with direct knowledge, and suggests that the jury should wonder why.

Yes, the rope expert was quite definite that loose ropes mean suicide and tight ropes always mean homicide. Oops! I hope Greer points this out in his cross examination.
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Good point. I like your language -- if nothing else he should suggest the jury should wonder why they pulled these witnesses with direct knowledge. Plaintiffs do get a rebuttal period, I wonder if they could subpoena M.E. at this late juncture. (?) I don't hear any indication from either Mary or Keith that this is likely to happen.

I also hope he points out the "tight rope is homicide" in his closing. The feet were very tightly bound and the rope around the hands had been tampered with prior to LE/medics arriving at the scene.
 
Verboten said:
Yes, I just heard from Greer about this. This is truly HUGE. They cannot put their own M.E. on the stand. Mary and Keith must feel robbed! Instead they had Dr. Davis up there to say Dr. Lucas' report was the finest he'd ever seen. Really? But, Dr. Lucas himself will not get on the stand? I said the same thing -- WOW. Interesting to hear that they are also scaling back some of the additional SDSO witnesses. Instead of a barrage of authority, they must realize it is coming across as a barrage of incompetence. Also, their rope expert testified today that tight ropes (like what Adam describes encountering at the scene) mean homicide. Perhaps they didn't realize Adam had to loosen the ropes, per his testimony in polygraph, in deposition, and even in court (where he avoids the word loosen, but demonstrates with his hand having to wedge his fingers under something very tight). Opinions are MOO, the facts are out there.
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Sorry, we must have been posting that at the same time! I’m your echo!

Re The ME not testifying....Oh my gosh. Good grief, this must give a HUGE message to the jury...of an admission of incompetence IMO!

I can completely understand Mary and the family being SO upset, I really feel for them. They must be devastated....

...but the jury are not stupid. They will have been awaiting the answers to the same questions as we are, and they won’t have them answered, and they will be asking themselves...why isn’t he here to explain....

I saw a noticeable shift in the defense stategy soon after Cyril Wecht testified. You can say what you will about Dr Phil and payments and what page of his report he didn’t send or whatever...but he was a very POWERFUL witness. He had gravitas, he had credibility, he had such confidence, and most impactful of all, he told the jury in no uncertain terms RZ was murdered.

I believe this is the primary reason the defense moved from an ‘obvious suicide and our client has nothing to answer to’ position ...to an ‘even if it was murder our client is not the perpetrator’ position.

“...but our clients DNA wasn’t found at the scene, was it?”

This was the mantra to every witness by the defence after Cyril Wecht testified....because they want the jury to focus as much as possible on lack of DNA and direct evidence of AS at the scene, rather than trying to prove the suicide theory....

I would put my money on this being the tactic in the defense closing argument, and why they didnt want the focus of attention back on the ME - and the powerful medical evidence contradicting suicide.

( All comments are my opinion :))
 
Lezah said:
I live in SD too, and I have to say, I feel the press are not showing the same level of coverage for the plaintiff as they are for the defense on the local news. It’s really odd, as they showed the cross examination primarily when it was the plaintiffs questioning the witnesses, and primarily the direct examination when it’s the defense questioning the witnesses. If I’d not seen the programs myself I wouldn’t have believed it! It genuinely appears to be a purposeful choice by the news stations IMO.
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Yes. This is very real, and these decisions are not made by happenstance. This is purposeful. It's disappointing, but also not new in cases of social justice. MOO
 
Verboten said:
Lezah, In addition to the deposition, where Adam says he *loosened* the ropes, in the interview prior to the polygraph he said he MOVED the ropes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppRDQ7yfymg&feature=youtu.be I know this is apparently not in front of the jury, but it's significant. I also watched the testimony you referred to and, even though Adam now refuses to say the word loosened, his demonstration with his hand of just "working his way" around the ropes is a clear demonstration of wedging your fingers under something tight. I said this in my earlier post, but will repeat: my opinion is that his rope expert just said it was a homicide, because he clearly isn't privy to how tight the ropes Adam encountered really were! MOO
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Thankyou very much for that! You’ve clarified it perfectly.
 
prpladi said:
Why can't these individuals be subpoenaed?


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Wow... I recall that Lucas left San Diego County last summer to take over the LA County Morgue but as a County Employee if he was previously on witness list then it was by (defense) subpoena. Either defense over-confident in what they've put to jury thus far or County did not want any further exposure. I don't know if plaintiff call can Lucas given that defense has provided the court a substitute ME.
 
Lezah said:
Sorry, we must have been posting that at the same time! I’m your echo!

Re The ME not testifying....Oh my gosh. Good greif, this must give a HUGE message to the jury...of an admission of incompetence IMO!

I can completely understand Mary and the family being SO upset, I really feel for them. They must be devastated....

...but the jury are not stupid. They will have been awaiting the answers to the same questions as we are, and they won’t have them answered, and they will be asking themselves...why isn’t he here to explain....

I saw a noticeable shift in the defense stategy soon after Cyril Wecht testified. You can say what you will about Dr Phil and payments and whatever...but he was a POWERFUL witness. He had gravitas, he had credibility, he had such confidence, and most impactful of all, he to,d the jury in no uncertain terms RZ was murdered.

I beleive this is the primary reason the defense moved from an ‘obvious suicide and our client has nothing to answer to’ position ...to an ‘even if it was murder our client is not the perpetrator’ position.

“...but our clients DNA wasn’t found at the scene, was it?”

This was the mantra to every witness by the defence after Cyril Wecht testified....because they want the jury to focus as much as possible on lack of DNA and direct evidence rather than trying to prove the suicide theory....

I would put my money on this being the tactic in the defense closing argument, and why they didnt want the focus of attention back on the ME - and the powerful medical evidence contradicting suicide.
Click to expand...

Nah, I'm YOUR echo. I was trying to determine what to do with this info about the M.E. then I saw your post that Mary had put it up on the page. In my mind, when there was so much to pick apart with the M.E., it truly must feel like being robbed. He will not be questioned nor held to accountable. Still, you are absolutely correct--what a huge message to the jury.

I agree the defense always had a dual strategy in mind -- it was suicide, but if it *was* homicide, it wasn't Adam. It does seem like they are realizing that homicide is coming across clear as day, so then the focus will have to be heavy on: OK, but it's not Adam.
MOO
 
Peaceful said:
I would like to see either the defense or plaintiffs show us how a woman of Rebecca's stature can do the entire circus act (my words) of tying her feet, hands, gagging herself, hop over to a banister the same height as the balcony at Spreckles and throw herself over it. If that can be done, then why haven't they shown it. I think it was an excellent move by the defense to not call those witnesses. Very disappointing for the rest of us. All JMO.
Click to expand...

Yes. Stature to include proportions. Someone who had longer legs and a shorter waist could have a significantly higher center of mass. The arms tied behind the back result in a lower center of gravity, at any rate. If her hands had not been tied behind her back we might not be here in this discussion. Had she been able to raise them above her head, it would have shifted her center of mass higher.
 
Seattle1 said:
Wow... I recall that Lucas left San Diego County last summer to take over the LA County Morgue but as a County Employee if he was previously on witness list then it was by (defense) subpoena. Either defense over-confident in what they've put to jury thus far or County did not want any further exposure. I don't know if plaintiff call can Lucas given that defense has provided the court a substitute ME.
Click to expand...

Yes, he was on the defense witness list. At the same time, plaintiff didn't have to call as a hostile witness because he was already on the witness list. I would think they might have the opportunity to decide to call now (rebuttal) based on the abrupt pull of the witness. At the same time, there is nothing in anything Greer or Mary said this evening that suggests they are considering it, even if it were a possibility.

I don't believe that there is such thing as a "substitute M.E." This person, unlike plaintiff's expert, never examined the body, so he's not a substitute anything. In any case, though it's not clear plantiff's could or would call Dr. Lucas during rebuttal, there is no doubt in my mind defense pulled due to exposure. It's not out of over confidence, I can almost guarantee it. MOO
 
Verboten said:
Nah, I'm YOUR echo. I was trying to determine what to do with this info about the M.E. then I saw your post that Mary had put it up on the page. In my mind, when there was so much to pick apart with the M.E., it truly must feel like being robbed. He will not be questioned nor held to accountable. Still, you are absolutely correct--what a huge message to the jury.

I agree the defense always had a dual strategy in mind -- it was suicide, but if it *was* homicide, it wasn't Adam. It does seem like they are realizing that homicide is coming across clear as day, so then the focus will have to be heavy on: OK, but it's not Adam.
MOO
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Ahhh.. perhaps defense believes Greer will seek alternate jury instructions (no suicide but death not caused by Adam).

OK. I just checked ROA and the jury instructions from 2/28 or start of trial were pulled last Friday!
 
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-knots-20180326-story.html

>>>snip

...Also on Monday, Dr. Gregory Davis of the University of Kentucky College of Medicine testified that the county Medicinal Examiner Office was correct to call the death a suicide.

Davis called the 40-page report by Dr. Jonathan Lucas, “one of the finest I’ve come across in my career.”

Davis said the report accurately concluded that Zahau died from her neck breaking in the 9-foot drop from the balcony.

He disagreed with a second autopsy presented earlier by the Zahau family’s lawyer that concluded she died from strangulation...

<<<snip

WTF is this "expert" talking about?! Rebecca's neck wasn't broken! Isn't her AR already a part of the record? How can he say this with a straight face, at this late stage of the trial? DId he not read the AR done by Dr. Lucas? Has he confused his cases here, or what? I don't understand anything about this testimony.

If I was on this jury, I'd discount this witness's testimony completely.
 
coastal said:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-knots-20180326-story.html

>>>snip

...Also on Monday, Dr. Gregory Davis of the University of Kentucky College of Medicine testified that the county Medicinal Examiner Office was correct to call the death a suicide.

Davis called the 40-page report by Dr. Jonathan Lucas, &#8220;one of the finest I&#8217;ve come across in my career.&#8221;

Davis said the report accurately concluded that Zahau died from her neck breaking in the 9-foot drop from the balcony.

He disagreed with a second autopsy presented earlier by the Zahau family&#8217;s lawyer that concluded she died from strangulation...

<<<snip

WTF is this "expert" talking about?! Rebecca's neck wasn't broken! Isn't her AR already a part of the record? How can he say this with a straight face, at this late stage of the trial? DId he not read the AR done by Dr. Lucas? Has he confused his cases here, or what? I don't understand anything about this testimony.

If I was on this jury, I'd discount this witness's testimony completely.
Click to expand...

Neck not broken. One more thing for Greer to bring up in cross examination.
 
Verboten said:
Yes, he was on the defense witness list. At the same time, plaintiff didn't have to call as a hostile witness because he was already on the witness list. I would think they might have the opportunity to decide to call now (rebuttal) based on the abrupt pull of the witness. At the same time, there is nothing in anything Greer or Mary said this evening that suggests they are considering it, even if it were a possibility.

I don't believe that there is such thing as a "substitute M.E." This person, unlike plaintiff's expert, never examined the body, so he's not a substitute anything. In any case, though it's not clear plantiff's could or would call Dr. Lucas during rebuttal, there is no doubt in my mind defense pulled due to exposure. It's not out of over confidence, I can almost guarantee it. MOO
Click to expand...

Sorry I was not clear in defining a "substitute ME." It's the AR that requires a spokesperson at trial. Preferably it's the report author of course but I've seen the substitution of spokesperson as long as person deemed qualified.
 
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