Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[Tortoise]

I think it's also important for the jury to know (if possible) that Rebecca's family is not doing this for financial gain, and that they are out of pocket to the tune of tens of thousands.

 

[Jessica2012]

Agree. Another stand out moment for the jury was the demonstration showing how Rebecca was holding the chef's knife behind her back, attempting to cut the rope that was binding her.

There's no other explanation for her fingerprints on the knife blade. The poor woman was trying desperately to get free of the ropes. She fought hard for her life.

I thought Greer’s theory was she was unconscious?

Why would she need to cut the ropes on her wrists when they were so loose and she could have just let go of the end that was holding them tighter that was in her fingers to “escape”?

 

[justice be served]

Quoting myself to see if I can explain this better or in a different way.

Let's assume for the sake of argument AS's version of events is correct. He emerges from the guest house 6:30am-ish, sees RZ hanging, cuts her down and calls 911. Now let's say the ME arrives within an hour or so of the 911 call to investigate this suspicious-as-homicide death, and finds RZ on the ground after being cut down from hanging from the balcony for 6 to 8 hours. Where would there be lividity in her hours-dead body that had been hanging straight down? It would be in her lower legs and feet, I think.

What if the co-conspirators knew that's not what the ME would find if he arrived shortly after the 911 call and LE's arrival, because RZ had been hogtied at some point and had been in the position on the grass for most of those 6 to 8 hours?

How to cover that up? Leave her in that position for another 12 hours so the ME can write in his AR that "Both rigor and livor mortis were appropriate for decedent's position."

You definitely have it here. I will take it a step further. What if one of the first LE that arrived at the scene had been well aware of Max's "suspicious" death earlier and that Rebecca was thought to be a POI and decided at that point to have the ME 'stand down' because it was obvious from Rebecca's posture that it could not have been a suicide as Adam was declaring. Why not control the narrative at that point and make sure that 'that girl got what she deserves for what she did'.

I am a big fan actually of LE and have some in my extended family but, I'm sorry, something is very rotten here.
There is no rational explanation for not having the ME there earlier. None.

 

[Jessica2012]

Mr Greer is going to call me in about an hour so now is the time if you have any questions for him.

Can you ask him how both he and Anne Bremner did not know that the clothes Rebecca was wearing on Tuesday, July 12, the ones they both said were missing from the scene, were in the crime scene photos in a heap on the floor?

I read in some of the court filings that Rebecca was most likely buried in that shirt dress. Is that true?

Will the Defense be allowed to present all the evolving theories that the Plantiffs have had about the case since Rebecca’s death? Will they be able to tell them that Nina and Dina were dropped from the case?

Thank you!

 

[elfie]

How did they explicitly exclude Adam from UNinterpretable DNA again? Also, not sure if anyone else mentioned regarding the possible processing of the gloves -- Greer said in a podcast with Tricia that the gloves were improperly processed (or something to this effect) and could now not be tested -- they were useless for obtaining evidence.

--------
Edited above, as I accidentally posted "interpretable" when I intended to say UNinterpretable!

Why wasn't PCR used by SDSO to better interpret the uninterpretable DNA?

https://www.emedicinehealth.com/pcr..._em.htm#what_is_pcr_polymerase_chain_reaction

 

[Verboten]

All IMO. Great that the case is not being split. Plaintiffs have the right person on trial for this and they have wiped the floor with the defense.

Agree, Tortoise. I'm happy the case is not being split.

 

[elfie]

Agree. Another stand out moment for the jury was the demonstration showing how Rebecca was holding the chef's knife behind her back, attempting to cut the rope that was binding her.

There's no other explanation for her fingerprints on the knife blade. The poor woman was trying desperately to get free of the ropes. She fought hard for her life.

Thank you, Betty!

 

[prpladi]

Tricia, I believe it is important for this thread to generate questions for Mr. Greer. However, I think he should keep his closing arguments detail off the record for now. IMO the defense reads these threads and may react accordingly to bolster their case.

The defense and the players on Adam's side IMO have not presented a fair fight - I think they have played dirty and it started within the first 24 hours of Rebecca's death. Let's not give them anything. JMO

Very sage advice

 

[Verboten]

If he can Mr. Greer is going to call me today. It may be in 29 seconds or in 12 hours. Not sure.

Please post any questions you have and I'll do my best to ask Mr. Greer for you.

Tricia

For Greer:

--Is it true, as media reports, that you fought hard for a split verdict and the defense shut that down? Because, personally I think that having the option to split the verdict would have been something the defense wanted more than *you.*
--What did the defense try to change in the jury instructions regarding the AR? Were they successful, unsuccessful, or is the Judge still deciding?

 

[minorone]

One black latex glove found, DNA and fingerprints:

1) Is there an explanation for why there is only one black latex glove. Seems strange that only one black latex glove would be found on the premises. Who wears only one latex glove? Was there a box of these gloves on the premises or any others found.

2) Were the inside of the gloves tested for DNA and fingerprints? I recall the Tara Grinstead case where male DNA & a partial fingerprint was found inside the latex glove as well as her DNA.

3) Do we know if the mixed DNA found on the scene was female or male; or a mixture of female and male DNA.

 

[Verboten]

There is no evidence RZ was ever hog-tied. That particular expert likely helped the defense more than the plaintiff when he admitted that the knots were fairly simple and commonly used and that gorillas, children, birds and just about anybody would be able to tie the knots (to paraphrase.) JMO

Interesting that the Judge thought differently. Testimony was also that one of the knots may be simple, but the totality of them is what makes it complex. Judge denied the nonsuit and one of the reasons she specifically gave was that, while the knots may be simple, "choosing the right knot" was important. That was one of her points in how the plaintiff DID have a case fit to go in front of a jury.

 

[MyBelle]

The theory seems to be rather fluid with speculation rather than fact. The ropes around the wrists were very loose in the photo I saw. I was also surprised to see all the dark paint on her hands. The more I listen to Jonah's testimony, I realize that only RZ could have painted it because it obviously was directed to him.

 

[MyBelle]

Interesting that the Judge thought differently. Testimony was also that one of the knots may be simple, but the totality of them is what makes it complex. Judge denied the nonsuit and one of the reasons she specifically gave was that, while the knots may be simple, "choosing the right knot" was important. That was one of her points in how the plaintiff DID have a case fit to go in front of a jury.

The Judge expressed an opinion that RZ was hog-tied? How so? Because the testimony at trial was that both knots were not only simple, they also are widely used and can be self-tied.

 

[Betty P]

I just reread Lezah's post and a bit of the AR, and had sort of an aha. In the AR, Lucas writes (BBM): "At 2000 hours rigor mortis was marked in the upper and lower extremities, neck, and jaw. Livor mortis was posterior, red and fixed. Both rigor and livor mortis were appropriate for decedent's position."

I wonder if RZ's body wasn't left in that position for 12+ hours to insure this was the case? In other words, what would be the *appropriate* rigor and livor mortis if she had just been cut down from a hanging position of many hours? If things happened as AS claims, and if the ME had arrived immediately (which, by the way, is the standard, I think, in suspicious deaths), the livor mortis (or lividity - I don't know these terms very well) would not be posterior, would it? So was this the primary reason for leaving her on the grass all day? To cover for the fact that she had actually been lying on the grass for hours at the time of the 911 call vs. hanging for hours?

Or am I just massively confused?

It took me a minute to understand what you were saying, but I got it. Yes. That and to allow exposure to the sunlight to destroy any remaining DNA evidence.

 

[Betty P]

[/B]

Snipped for emphasis and BBM. This one sentence says it all. Well done.

Always. For years we've been told to trust SDSO and not our lying eyes. Never could do it, no matter how hard I tried.

 

[Starz21]

Sorry of this has already been covered elsewhere (I’ve fallen behind in reading he thread and so skipped ahead a little) but if EMT called off CPR because of rigor in her jaw, how has the defence or AS reconciled that with his claim that he gave CPR while on the 911 call? Has that already been addressed?

Also, I don’t know much at all about rigor but would it be possible to mistake in a jaw? I assumed that your jaw would be lax and relaxed in unconciousness or the early stages of death. Since AS claimed on the 911 call that he didn’t know if she were alive or dead, isn’t he suggesting that her jaw was malleable enough to attempt cpr, contrary to the EMT reports?

 

[justice be served]

San Diego County is still listed as a client of Sitrick & Co, reputation management company, although it does say present and former clients. I see they have now removed Medicis from their client list as it was also listed back in 2011/12.

https://www.sitrick.com/clients/

IMO I suspect the firm is still busy representing our defendant parties.

 

[justice be served]

I also am bewildered how quite a few media are reporting as if encouraged to support SDSO.

I guess the average joe would generally have faith in our law enforcement as I tend to do as well. And on the surface, without really digging into the detail of what has gone down here on this case, the general public probably wants to believe that our law enforcement officials always do the right and just thing. The media is probably no different in their thinking.

I watched the single cameraman that was allowed in the courtroom the day I was there. I believe he streamed what he singularly thought would be the most prurient testimony with the focus of having good viewership. I doubt he alone even knows what is going on in this trial and he's just doing his job. The editors of the raw footage probably do the same.

But when it comes to social media, newspapers and other print material, I believe IMO that the reputation management companies run the show. I guess the whole world is now finding that out especially in social media in our political world - this case is no different. And doing so is powerful stuff for influencing the masses.

 

[kittychi]

<modsnip>

And notice that those who do not support the suicide narrative also believe that Max&#8217;s case was not properly investigated. They don&#8217;t have a problem with SDSO&#8217;s handling of Rebecca&#8217;s bizarre death, but they do have a problem with SDSO&#8217;s handling of Max&#8217;s death (or was it Coronado police that handled Max&#8217;s death? Either way, it is bewildering.)

 

[Imp]

You definitely have it here. I will take it a step further. What if one of the first LE that arrived at the scene had been well aware of Max's "suspicious" death earlier and that Rebecca was thought to be a POI and decided at that point to have the ME 'stand down' because it was obvious from Rebecca's posture that it could not have been a suicide as Adam was declaring. Why not control the narrative at that point and make sure that 'that girl got what she deserves for what she did'.

I am a big fan actually of LE and have some in my extended family but, I'm sorry, something is very rotten here.
There is no rational explanation for not having the ME there earlier. None.

Just saw this post and I said something very similar right above. We're on the same page!