Red Hearts

[Zman]

Still looks like a G in red ink to me.

Great find act 12 48. Thats really interesting. Would that organization have been around in 1996?

Seems I remember that you had to include the lines on JBR's own palm to complete the heart. Don't remember where I read this but I'll look for it and see if I can link.

 

[acts13_48]

Thanks, I thought it was very interesting as well. The organizations web site says that it was established in 1992, so they were around prior to JBRs murder.

Great find act 12 48. Thats really interesting. Would that organization have been around in 1996?

Seems I remember that you had to include the lines on JBR's own palm to complete the heart. Don't remember where I read this but I'll look for it and see if I can link.

 

[sissi]

If I recall, Patsy mentioned something just like this, a teacher led discussion in school. She mentioned , as well, that they talked about not allowing touching where the bathing suit would cover. I don't remember the logo being heart in hand, however, this site referenced does suggest their inception around 1992! Has this always been their logo?

 

[Eagle1]

Very good catch indeed, the logo of a child sex abuse organization! It looks like a heart to me.

Does anyone remember that Steve Thomas (I think) said the dictionary opened to the word Incest wasn't in the crime scene at first but mysteriously appeared in the developed pictures of it they'd taken? Sounds like the perp was still around, or someone he'd sent did that.


Someone was trying to cast suspicion on JR with such crude little tricks if you ask me, as if incest wouldn't occur to police or anyone w/out those "clues". BTW, they exonerate him, because if he was guilty he certainly would not have left such hints pointing to himself. The perp obviously isn't too smart!

Speculation, had the perp had some kind of dealing with the organization? They would have a list, wouldn't they?

 

[Rupert]

Does anyone remember that Steve Thomas (I think) said the dictionary opened to the word Incest wasn't in the crime scene at first but mysteriously appeared in the developed pictures of it they'd taken? Sounds like the perp was still around, or someone he'd sent did that.

Someone was trying to cast suspicion on JR with such crude little tricks if you ask me, as if incest wouldn't occur to police or anyone w/out those "clues". BTW, they exonerate him, because if he was guilty he certainly would not have left such hints pointing to himself. The perp obviously isn't too smart!

Two good points Eagle1.

The perp still being around fits with "someone close to the Ramsays or well acquainted with the house".

Indeed, why would one point to themselves? I sensed too that someone was pointing to JR. And how would JR not know was going on otherwise, unless it was an intruder?

 

[Seeker]

The ink used on the photo and JonBenet's hand is one and the same.

Toltec, I've never seen anything that says they were the same ink. Do you have a source that shows this for me please? Pretty please?

Thanks!

As for the red heart Meyer saw, we don't have the ability to open her hand and take a better look at it. I know sometimes pictures can make something look different due to the angle the photo is taken at. If Meyer says it's a heart and it's red ink and not a contusion (which I'm sure he'd know the difference of) then we might need to give him the benefit of the doubt on this...

 

[Eagle1]

Looks like a heart done with red ink to me, and the M.E. should know.

 

[capps]

I also agree.A medical examiner would/should know the difference between a contusion or red ink.

 

[Zman]

Thanks, I thought it was very interesting as well. The organizations web site says that it was established in 1992, so they were around prior to JBRs murder.

I have E-mailed Stop it now to ask when this logo began to be used however as of now I have received no answer from them.
I did notice that the autopsy states the heart was on the left palm and the hand of the Stop It Now logo is also the left.

 

[Eagle1]

Let's hear more about this?

Does that organization ever deal with perps? If so, they would have a list. No stone should be left unturned.

 

[Toltec]

Toltec, I've never seen anything that says they were the same ink. Do you have a source that shows this for me please? Pretty please?

Thanks!

As for the red heart Meyer saw, we don't have the ability to open her hand and take a better look at it. I know sometimes pictures can make something look different due to the angle the photo is taken at. If Meyer says it's a heart and it's red ink and not a contusion (which I'm sure he'd know the difference of) then we might need to give him the benefit of the doubt on this...

From the NE book, pgs 312-13:

LS: And the heart was in red ink? I don't know what that means. You got any thoughts on that?

JR: ...She wouldn't have drawn on herself like that.

LS: Have you ever seen her draw on herself?

JR: Oh, they get stuff on their hands. But I don't ever remember her drawing on herself.

Edited to add this: I don't believe John was ever told by LE that the ink used in the magazine and the ink used to draw a heart on JonBenet were one and the same.

HMMMMM.

LS:...You say that you played with her at the Whites...do you think you were in close proximity with her where you would have noticed that?

JR: Absolutely...I do not believe that she would draw a little heart on her hand in the same kind of ink. That has got to be weird.

 

[Seeker]

Thanks Toltec, I don't have that book so never saw the reference.

What you posted looks like it's fragmented to me. Is anything missing?

JR doesn't say it's the same kind of ink as what is on the photo...in fact what you posted doesn't mention the photo at all...

 

[BlueCrab]

JR doesn't say it's the same kind of ink as what is on the photo...in fact what you posted doesn't mention the photo at all...

There's nothing in the autopsy report that states the "drawing" on the palm of JonBenet's left hand was analyzed or specimens taken. It appears John Meyer assumed it was a red ink drawing scribbled by a child and let it go at that.

IMO it wasn't an ink drawing at all, and it didn't look anything like a heart. My guess is it was a bruise from an irregularly-shaped object with sharp edges. It turned red, as do most such contusions.

BlueCrab

 

[Zman]

There's nothing in the autopsy report that states the "drawing" on the palm of JonBenet's left hand was analyzed or specimens taken. It appears John Meyer assumed it was a red ink drawing scribbled by a child and let it go at that.

IMO it wasn't an ink drawing at all, and it didn't look anything like a heart. My guess is it was a bruise from an irregularly-shaped object with sharp edges. It turned red, as do most such contusions.

BlueCrab

Yeah, I don't know why any of us bother reading that silly autopsy report.

 

[capps]

There's nothing in the autopsy report that states the "drawing" on the palm of JonBenet's left hand was analyzed or specimens taken. It appears John Meyer assumed it was a red ink drawing scribbled by a child and let it go at that.

IMO it wasn't an ink drawing at all, and it didn't look anything like a heart. My guess is it was a bruise from an irregularly-shaped object with sharp edges. It turned red, as do most such contusions.

BlueCrab

I don't know BlueCrab ....

Maybe if there was a bit of leeway in his statement,such as: ....there APPEARS to be a red ink line drawing in the form of a heart ....
But there isn't,he specifically says,"A red ink line drawing in the form of a heart is located on the palm of her left hand."

Also,there are many statements in the autopsy report,that isn't followed with: ... and it has been analyzed and speciman's taken ...." I think that is a given.

Sorry BC ... have to go with the expert on this one.

 

[tipper]

I don't know BlueCrab ....

Maybe if there was a bit of leeway in his statement,such as: ....there APPEARS to be a red ink line drawing in the form of a heart ....
But there isn't,he specifically says,"A red ink line drawing in the form of a heart is located on the palm of her left hand."

Also,there are many statements in the autopsy report,that isn't followed with: ... and it has been analyzed and speciman's taken ...." I think that is a given.

Sorry BC ... have to go with the expert on this one.

I would think especially in an autopsy on murder victim he would be looking out for contusions and other indications of injury.

 

[capps]

I would think especially in an autopsy on murder victim he would be looking out for contusions and other indications of injury.

Absolutely Tipper!

Because if a contusion,that could possibly mean that JonBenet was pinned down some how ... that would be important. I don't think Dr. Meyer would want to overlook something like that.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I've always dismissed the heart (or whatever it was, it doesn't really look like a heart) on her hand as nothing. I assume if it was a heart, she drew it there herself. Wasn't it on her left hand? Wasn't she right-handed? I've sat and doodled on myself when without paper to do it on...maybe that's all it was. Maybe it got there by accident during the course of her day. My son is the same age, and he gets ink on his hands all the time when using pens and markers. But I will admit not in that shape...it's not really a heart, is it? It does look like a capital G. And that's exactly how it would come out if you wrote it on your left hand using your right.

I don't think the killer had to use much restraint on JonBenet. I think it was someone she knew very well that she was always compliant with, and I don't think she put up much struggle. The tape on her mouth showed no signs of having been present while she was alive, and I further assume that she was not tied up other than the device around her neck when she died. I do believe she scratched herself trying to relieve the pressure around her neck, but I assume that was survival instinct kicking in, as opposed to fighting her killer. I don't believe the person who did this was someone JonBenet would have challenged from the outset, certainly not a stranger to her, but someone she knew rather well and, in a manner of speaking, trusted. Or maybe feared.

 

[Toltec]

How in the world could this intruder get away with feeding JonBenet pineapple AND drawing on her hand????

THERE WAS NO INTRUDER!

Seeker...I was being lazy, tee hee!

As questioning began, John was asked about an entrepreneurial magazine found in the house in which he's photographed as one of four award winners.

Three of the faces have the word "NO" written across them. A heart is drawn around John's picture. Ramsey says he has never seen this before.

JR: (whistles) That's weird. This was a very nice event and a nice award. But it wasn't a big deal for me. But that is bizarre.

LS: ....Could Patsy, or would JonBenet have written that?

JR: No.

LS:...Well, the reason it has come to our attention. JonBenet - did you ever read or hear anything about her in the autopsy report? That she had a heart on her hand?

JR: I heard that just recently.

LS: And the heart was in red ink? I don't know what that means. You got any thoughts on that?

JR:...She wouldn't have drawn on herself like that.

 

[Seeker]

Thanks Toltec. So it looks to me like JR is the only one who ever said anything about the ink being the same color...

In fact nobody ever compared the ink from the photo and her hand, the only corrolation is that both were done in red ink, not that they were an exact match...

Truth is that JB could have been holding a red pen from the wrong end anytime during that day. Many have said the heart doesn't look like a heart at all...maybe it isn't. Maybe it was just because she held the pen bassackwards. Or it's possible that Daphne was trying to draw a "D" on JB's hand using double lines to make the letter larger.

I don't believe there is any signifigance to whatever it was drawn on her hand.