Regroup/Refocus for 2013

[OzzieMum]

Hi Annasmom,

I have been having a good look at photos of you, Anna and the age progression pic's (OMG, I hope that doesn't sound creepy stalker ) and I think that last progression pic you posted has hit the nail right on the head.

I did a side by side of you in the pic with your Mum when you were little and the last pic of Anna and if I didn't know that it was 2 different children I would bet my bottom dollar it was the same child. So it stands to reason that Anna as an adult would look a lot like her Mum. I think the progression pic has captured enough of you but kept Anna's individuality, if that makes sense.

 

[SideKick]

I'd like to apologize to SideKick and everyone.

I've been extremely frustrated with the wait and few answers with regards to the possible match. I was unaware Dr. Doogie is still without much computer access....

Also, this forum has always had little mod attention since my joining WS. While I am no longer moderating, I have taken it upon myself to try and help things stay on track here in order for information to be easy to follow......

I'm trying to do some of what has been learned in other forums here. Not to be mean, rude, etc. but simply to make it easier for all who post or read. In the fast moving cases, the mods would give a nudge, someone would remember it... and stay on track.. It only takes a minute or two to scan the thread titles to determine which thread might best fit the information. It's simple courtesy.

If someone is working the Wanek angle and are only reading the Wanek thread because that is all the time they can devote, then they miss information, or waste time on repeating work already done when information is not added to the appropriate thread.

Only when no thread topic is set up, then go to the regroup/refocus. This thread was set up for idea's not having a thread of it's own.


WS has been gracious enough to allow us an entire forum versus going back to single general discussion threads, which for some cases are well past thread #20. Because they have been so gracious to do so, and without cost to us members, I think it is reasonable to ask people please stay on topic.

We get upset sometimes because we do care. If we didn't care, or if I didn't care that Anna's forum was easy to follow, then I'd have not said a word and not given a rat's patooty if this forum was one big mess with information all over, threads getting derailed and off topic.

:blowkiss:

Thank you,

Cubby

Cubby, it was the way you handled your frustration. I don't need a slap across the face because I made a boo boo. And the humiliation on the board. When I came up with the idea in the first place, my entire focus was finding Anna and the fact she is not Evelyn for some reason refocus came to mind only to find your post which really made me sad to tell you the truth. We all are frustrated sometimes. I do a lot of this while at work when I have 10 min and have issues in my life as well, hence perhaps having an off day? I am thoughtful of others, have manners, but geez..... you scare me! Sure, we appreciate 'your work' as we appreciate everyone's work and concern to ensure this forum is nicely arranged and easy to access information when needed. I don't like the 20 head banging icon's and the sarcasm but thanks for your apology Cubby. I certainly will once again re think when I post information and put it in it's proper thread.
(again, it was pretty innocent as I did think about the placement!) but obviously blew it big time. Let's carry on in the name of Anna.

 

[Firefly75]

Just in case I'm missing something - why is this thread tagged c Eugene Austin, Gene Austin, mean gene, oger the hill?

I can see that Half Moon Bay Kaview is probably meant to be Half Moon Bay Review, but still. I don't get the rest of the tags. Surely Anna couldn't have any mean genes, just like that???

 

[Annasmom]

Just in case I'm missing something - why is this thread tagged c Eugene Austin, Gene Austin, mean gene, oger the hill?

I can see that Half Moon Bay Kaview is probably meant to be Half Moon Bay Review, but still. I don't get the rest of the tags. Surely Anna couldn't have any mean genes, just like that???

I have no idea whatsoever why those Eugene Austin tags are there and wish someone would remove them. They have to be removed by the person who posted them, so I can't get them off. Somebody at some point thought some criminal with that name might be involved, I think. "Kaview" is how Anna pronounced the name of the local paper. Likewise, "ogre the hill" was what she thought lay on the other side of the Coastal range near our house ("over the hill") and she thought the bird on the coin was the American Seagull, not the American Eagle. They are just little things, but you never know what can trigger a memory.

 

[Annasmom]

P.S. Patches was the cat and Saturn was the dog.

 

[Firefly75]

I have no idea whatsoever why those Eugene Austin tags are there and wish someone would remove them. They have to be removed by the person who posted them, so I can't get them off. Somebody at some point thought some criminal with that name might be involved, I think. "Kaview" is how Anna pronounced the name of the local paper. Likewise, "ogre the hill" was what she thought lay on the other side of the Coastal range near our house ("over the hill") and she thought the bird on the coin was the American Seagull, not the American Eagle. They are just little things, but you never know what can trigger a memory.

Thank you for clarifying all that, Annasmom. The only things I understood before were the pets' names. What came up when I googled 'Eugene Austin' was the crooner and I couldn't connect his songs to Anna. And 'mean gene' (which I now see must be referring to EA) confused me no end because the only thing I could think of was the gene that apparently causes stinginess in some people, which made even less sense, as Anna was the sort of person who'd give her things away happily.

I completely agree with you, you never know what might trigger a memory. The American Seagull is definitely the sort of thing I would remember, as well as some childhood words and mispronunciations. (I am hard of hearing, so you can imagine that when I learned to read, a whole lot of words turned out to be different from how I perceived them.)

Anna, come home soon!

 

[Cubby]

While speaking to Dr. Doogie, he mentioned he tried contacting Detective Gilletti and the number he had was for another detective. I'm trying to research if he is still with the pd, or if he has retired or has been reassigned.

Also, a different detective is listed at NamUs as the contact for Anna's case. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/44/1/

Is it Detective Gilletti or Detective Marcus Gathright who is currently handling Anna's case?

Annasmom, have you spoken with Det. Gathright?

We should really stay on top of these things, because Det. Gathright is the person any ME would contact when utilizing NamUs.

 

[Cubby]

I'm not finding any info with regards to a current number for Det. Gilletti. I'll try tomorrow during regular business hours.

 

[Annasmom]

While speaking to Dr. Doogie, he mentioned he tried contacting Detective Gilletti and the number he had was for another detective. I'm trying to research if he is still with the pd, or if he has retired or has been reassigned.

Also, a different detective is listed at NamUs as the contact for Anna's case. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/44/1/

Is it Detective Gilletti or Detective Marcus Gathright who is currently handling Anna's case?

Annasmom, have you spoken with Det. Gathright?

We should really stay on top of these things, because Det. Gathright is the person any ME would contact when utilizing NamUs.

I don't know this. It has been a couple of years since I heard anything from the Sheriff's department. The last I heard, Jim Gilletti had been assigned to a different department, but he said he still retained an interest in Anna's case and would contact us if they had any new information. No, I have not spoken with Det. Gathright.

 

[Cubby]

Still working on getting the direct contact info for Det. JG. I have a few numbers to call tomorrow. Had to run out so couldn't finish today. Will try again tomorrow.

 

[Annasmom]

I can't find the post regarding a couple of unidentified children one member suggested might be Anna, but I wanted to speak to that subject. The person in charge of Anna's case at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children sent me this information this morning:


"With the correct DNA, fingerprints and dental records uploaded into NamUs and CODIS/NDIS, the samples constantly cross check one another and if a match is there, it will hit. New cases are being uploaded all the time so about every 30 days or so the sample will cross check against the newer entries into the system."

Mitochondrial (maternal) DNA was assembled from Anna's family members and the information has been entered into the national database, so if DNA has been obtained from unidentifieds, it will automatically be compared to Anna's profile. Although our DNA information is not as comprehensive as it would be if it had come from Anna herself, there are thousands of alleles on the DNA profile, certainly enough to suggest or rule out a match.

 

[Cubby]

Thank you, Annasmom. To expand a little further......

For those of you with some questions about dna, I've probably mentioned this before but will mention it again. There are two types of DNA, mt-DNA and nuclear DNA. The two are not comparable against each other because they come from different parts of the body.

mt-DNA or mitochondrial dna holds up to degradation much better than nuclear dna.
Overall, we would expect to see mt-dna collected from older UID's as opposed to nuclear dna which would probably already be too degraded (in most cases unless the decedant is found much sooner to the tod). So what we have on Anna should almost certainly be sufficent, with 3 family members having submitted a sample for mt-dna.

Personally, I would not expect to need nuclear dna to make a comparison for any UID that might be Anna. (based on the age of the case and knowing nuclear dna degrades much more quickly than mt-dna).

DNA is not available on all UID's, as we have seen with the speciman we are currently awaiting comparison. We should always confirm DNA is available. Once confirmed DNA is available, we'll know the system will automatically cross check approximately once a month as Annasmom posted.


hth

 

[Annasmom]

The NCMEC has arranged to get DNA samples from Anna's father's side of the family in order to have a more complete profile. Evidently there are some new techniques for retrieving DNA, and my guess is that our people are using them. Take a look at http://www.bodetech.com/

 

[Cubby]

Excellent news, Annasmom!

From the link posted in Annasmoms post.

Bode Technology is once again applying for the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) grant, “Using DNA Technology to Identify the Missing.” Using the NIJ funding, Bode is able to accept unidentified human remains and family reference samples from state and local governments and process the remains using both STR and mitochondrial DNA analysis free of charge.Bode was the only private DNA laboratory participating in this NIJ funding opportunity. The funding is provided to assist the efforts of state and local governments in performing DNA analysis on unidentified human remains and/or family reference samples, and generating DNA profiles that will be uploaded into the FBI’s National Missing Persons DNA Database. Currently both mitochondrial and STR profiles can be entered into this database searched at the national level. Bode is working with the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification (UNTCHI) to facilitate the upload of the unidentified skeletal remains and family reference samples into the National Missing Persons DNA Database. Once Bode has processed the samples, the DNA data will be sent to UNTCHI to be uploaded into the National Missing Persons DNA Database.

 

[Annasmom]

Excellent news, Annasmom!

From the link posted in Annasmoms post.

Bode Technology is once again applying for the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) grant, “Using DNA Technology to Identify the Missing.” Using the NIJ funding, Bode is able to accept unidentified human remains and family reference samples from state and local governments and process the remains using both STR and mitochondrial DNA analysis free of charge.Bode was the only private DNA laboratory participating in this NIJ funding opportunity. The funding is provided to assist the efforts of state and local governments in performing DNA analysis on unidentified human remains and/or family reference samples, and generating DNA profiles that will be uploaded into the FBI’s National Missing Persons DNA Database. Currently both mitochondrial and STR profiles can be entered into this database searched at the national level. Bode is working with the University of North Texas Center for Human Identification (UNTCHI) to facilitate the upload of the unidentified skeletal remains and family reference samples into the National Missing Persons DNA Database. Once Bode has processed the samples, the DNA data will be sent to UNTCHI to be uploaded into the National Missing Persons DNA Database.

I bet that's where the San Gregorio sample went. There's a place on the web page where you can ask a question direct. Is anybody brave enough to try it?

 

[Cubby]

If we were going to ask, I'd ask San Mateo directly which private lab they are using. I would not recommend going outside of them to ask questions. That might not go over well and we want to keep them as allies as Doogie mentioned.

I'm pretty sure I have seen Bode lab listed on a UID on NamUs, but which UID I don't recall. I didn't pay much attention at the time, because I was unfamiliar and had not previously seen the link you provided above, Annasmom.

I don't know if Dr. Doogie has already made contact with the coroners office or not. If he has not yet, we could add this to the list of questions. If he has, depending on where he is at in the process... we might be able to add it now, or wait until the next time he makes contact.

I'd guess they are probably the lab, due to the info I snipped above. I know this grant money is being overseen tightly, only going to labs that meet strict guidelines.

I don't know that we want to push the for the name of the private lab right now.

Thoughts from anyone else?

 

[Annasmom]

The NCMEC is making inquiries about the private lab and the DNA comparisons and will notify me if and when they learn anything. It's not the name of the private lab we need so much as we need the reason for the great delay. If it turns out that DNA is not retrievable, then it would be good to know that. But we have to remember that as far as the coroner, NamUs, etc., are concerned, we have no particular interest in the specimen they are testing. Until they get some sort of identification, the fragment is simply that of an unknown child.

 

[Cubby]

I'm glad to know NCMEC will be making some inquiries. Though, I have to disagree that we, well really you and your family, have no particular interest. You have a missing child who is within the age range of the unidentified child, so you do have an interest as far as wanting to determine if this is your family member, or not.


Personally, I would not like to see the name of the private lab posted here. Even if you had it. If we posted it on a public forum, we'd have no control over who might call and start nagging them. I'm not suggesting someone might do that, I just don't want to take the risk.

If the coroner chooses to publish the name of the private lab via NamUs, then that is their decision, and it would only be done so for other agencies to know where the speciman exists for comparison.

 

[smile22]

i agree cubby we should not rule out anything at this point maybe they are very close to retrieving dna on this child. hopefully its not anna and we can continue the search for her and that the lab can determine who the child was and bring closure to the child's family

 

[Cubby]

Imo, it is way way too soon to make any conclusions that dna will not be retrievable.

The following is a link to a case where the murder occured in 1946. Skeletal remains were found in the San Bernardino desert in 1971 and it took the CA state lab 5.5 years to succesfully obtain a dna profile on the UID. The remains were positively identified May of 2011. DNA profiling began in 2005.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/mabry-319769-kitty-walraven.html

There have been leaps and bounds in dna advances since 2005. Additionally, the above very cold case from 1946 was done in the state lab, not a private lab.

We are a long long ways from calling it unsuccesful. Let's just wait and see what information we can obtain from Dr. Doogie or NCMEC.