Related Issues and Food for Thought

[Sillybilly]

Reference to a victim’s past is not victim bashing when it is a fact that can form part of a non-judgemental victimology. (Similar to the high-risk missing persons investigations where it is a published fact that the victim was involved in the sex trade or had a drug addiction, it doesn’t equate to victim bashing … it’s just a non-judgemental consideration of a known fact). History of a victim can be helpful in understanding victim/perp interaction.

In this case, it may point to WM's own activist, possibly rebellious nature that may have influenced an anti-establishment streak in DM’s formative years. It is open for respectful discussion and just something to consider.

 

[Tamarind]

So should we suspect WM's and LB's deaths were also accidental? I'm not buying the accidental theory. IF that was the case in TB's death, it would be then classified second degree or perhaps manslaughter. JMO.

And the charges have stuck to first degree...premeditated.

We don't know that LB is dead. The suicide stuck too for WM.

These charges have to be based on a lot of speculation and inference IMO. This would not be the first time.

 

[Tamarind]

" Just because someone repeats that something is so, does not make it so" Facts are best to work with IMO

 

[matou]

Homework for this weekend: how many cases of first degree murder were dropped because the person/victim turned up alive? GO!

 

[Tamarind]

Homework for this weekend: how many cases of first degree murder were dropped because the person/victim turned up alive? GO!

Maybe you can first tell us how many first degree murder charges have been laid without a body being found ( in Canada). From there we can see what we are dealing with for the homework assignment. I am just looking for some proportional representation.

 

[SnooperDuper]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/how-do-you-prove-murder-without-a-body/article19610440/

 

[Kamille]

Sorry Matou, I couldn't find any cases for your assignment.

Here's a few for yours Tamarind.

Right now we have Douglas Garland, Dellen Millard and Mark Smich going to trial for no body murder charges. In the past....

There’s R vs. Pritchard, a decision affirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada. It’s a 2007 decision from the British Columbia Court of Appeal which involved a man convicted of first-degree murder despite the fact that the victim’s body has never been found.

There’s R vs. Ratte, another B.C. case where a husband was convicted of second-degree murder despite the fact his wife’s body was never found. The Supreme Court dismissed the application for leave to appeal.

There’s R vs. Wristen, a 1999 Ontario case where another husband was convicted of second-degree murder though the body of his wife has never been found; that was upheld by the court of appeal.

https://damianpenny.wordpress.com/2014/07/15/murder-without-a-body/

There's probably more but I was never very good at homework.

 

[Sillybilly]

We currently have the Liknes/O'Brien in Alberta, but I don't know why we'd draw a line at the border when it comes to no-body cases:

Here's a list of 300+ US cases, compiled by Ted DeBiase, former Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia:

http://www.nobodycases.com/no_body2.pdf

 

[Kamille]

" Just because someone repeats that something is so, does not make it so" Facts are best to work with IMO

Ain't that the truth!

Facts are still that TB went for a test drive in his truck with two men identified as DM and MS. Neither TB nor his truck returned home. TB's burned remains were found in an incinerator owned by DM on property also owned by DM. TB's STOLEN truck was found in DM's trailer in DM's mother's driveway, put there by a vehicle with a 5th wheel hookup for that trailer which DM also owned.

MM's Harley and his trailer were stolen in the fall of 2012. They were found in a hangar owned by DM.

The last phone calls LB made were to DM before she went "off the grid", never to be seen or heard from again.

WM was found by LE with a gunshot to his head (eye). His son DM found him originally before LE were contacted.

DM has been charged with theft over $5000, Forceable confinement and 3 counts of 1st degree murder.

MS has been charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder and one count of breaching a court order. (This charge was by added by Toronto LE and not HPS FWIW)

MWJ and two other Matthew's have been charged with trafficking a gun to DM.

A burner phone used to contact prospective sellers of Dodge Ram trucks, including the murdered TB, was traced to DM.

Those are just a few for starters. No matter how many times those facts are repeatedly disputed, or blatantly ignored, they are still the facts right now. I'm sure others can add to the list.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I wouldn't be surprised if LB' calls provoked a flurry of text messages between LB and DM or MS and DM that showed intent or motive to hurt LB for some reason, and LE managed to pick that up. That would support the first degree charges, and circumstantial evidence including LB dropping off the grid would support the murder.

 

[Tamarind]

We currently have the Liknes/O'Brien in Alberta, but I don't know why we'd draw a line at the border when it comes to no-body cases:

Here's a list of 300+ US cases, compiled by Ted DeBiase, former Assistant United States Attorney in the District of Columbia:

http://www.nobodycases.com/no_body2.pdf

We need to draw the line at the border because the case is in Canada and the laws differ. IMO. I am not interested in the USA statistics, just as I am not interested in the UK statistics.

Judging by the lack of similar cases in Canada it is difficult to say what is usual. A handful of cases, a few involving a husband ( lots more to work with imo ) and a guy who killed women and fed them to pigs is not really comparable. So who can say what may occur in Canada in a case like this.

This is my opinion of course and I think I will end my involvement with the homework assignment, as I may not be working with the same set of rules as others, if US statistics are being included. I shall respectfully bow out of the class. :bow:

 

[matou]

Typical. Some do actual research and others not so much. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Ain't that the truth!

Facts are still that TB went for a test drive in his truck with two men identified as DM and MS. Neither TB nor his truck returned home. TB's burned remains were found in an incinerator owned by DM on property also owned by DM. TB's STOLEN truck was found in DM's trailer in DM's mother's driveway, put there by a vehicle with a 5th wheel hookup for that trailer which DM also owned.

Suspicious that an alleged killer would leave everything on his own property IMO. Regardles of this being so, it does not determine guilt.

MM's Harley and his trailer were stolen in the fall of 2012. They were found in a hangar owned by DM.

DM has not been charged with anything to do with this, there are many who could have delivered parts to the hangar. It doesn't mean he knew anything about it.

The last phone calls LB made were to DM before she went "off the grid", never to be seen or heard from again.

This isnt true. She called many people prior to her disappearance.

WM was found by LE with a gunshot to his head (eye). His son DM found him originally before LE were contacted.

He lived with his son, his son is the most likely to have found him, as would have been the case in any family home.

DM has been charged with theft over $5000, Forceable confinement and 3 counts of 1st degree murder.

Charged not convicted.

MS has been charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder and one count of breaching a court order. (This charge was by added by Toronto LE and not HPS FWIW)

Charged not convicted.

MWJ and two other Matthew's have been charged with trafficking a gun to DM.

He was charged with selling a gun. DM hasn't been charged with buying it as far as I can tell.

A burner phone used to contact prospective sellers of Dodge Ram trucks, including the murdered TB, was traced to DM.

I will wait for the disclosure on that one, should be interesting JMO

Those are just a few for starters. No matter how many times those facts are repeatedly disputed, or blatantly ignored, they are still the facts right now. I'm sure others can add to the list.

MOO

Not much to go on really IMO. I haven't seen anyone ignore anything. Pointing to suspicious 'evidence' is not ignoring IMO

 

[Tamarind]

Typical. Some do actual research and others not so much. JMO

Where is the research?

 

[ellie b]

Not much to go on ???........:thinking:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think the main arguments for DM's innocence are:

He's too wealthy and wealth means class so he's too classy to do something like this (even though he's not a well educated aviation CEO but a high school dropout/good time boy)

There's NO BODY. (I'm sure DM thought even if he were caught, the incinerator would clear him of all guilt, but I don't think that's gonna work out. Simple minds, however, think alike.)

He didn't have a criminal record (when he was arrested...now he has 5 major charges in 3 cases)

He was left holding the bag with all the evidence (And this means something opposite to the obvious?)

Did I miss something?

 

[Kamille]

Suspicious that an alleged killer would leave everything on his own property IMO. Regardles of this being so, it does not determine guilt.

Not suspicious at all that a killer would burn his victim in an incinerator he owned on property he owned. A large percentage of victims are found on property owned by their killers. What is suspicious is that he owned an incinerator at all, purchased just after the first victim disappeared.

DM has not been charged with anything to do with this, there are many who could have delivered parts to the hangar. It doesn't mean he knew anything about it.

No matter how many times it is said that because DM is not charged with the theft of the HD and trailer it means he is not responsible, that does not make it a fact. We do not know the status of that investigation.

This isnt true. She called many people prior to her disappearance.

Her last 8 calls I believe were to DM

He lived with his son, his son is the most likely to have found him, as would have been the case in any family home.

Just listing a fact. He is now charged with shooting his father in the head.

Charged not convicted.

Still a fact


Charged not convicted.

Also a fact. If he was convicted we would not be here discussing this case.



He was charged with selling a gun. DM hasn't been charged with buying it as far as I can tell.

As he won't be. He has been charged with using it to murder at least one person.


I will wait for the disclosure on that one, should be interesting JMO

LE have already disclosed that information. It's in the media available to be looked up.

Not much to go on really IMO. I haven't seen anyone ignore anything. Pointing to suspicious 'evidence' is not ignoring IMO

Lots to go on and that's just the tip of the iceberg IMO. That's without any witness, electronic or surveillence evidence, just to name a few things yet to come when the trials commence.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes facts in this case.

MOO

 

[Tamarind]

Lots to go on and that's just the tip of the iceberg IMO. That's without any witness, electronic or surveillence evidence, just to name a few things yet to come when the trials commence.

Not suspicious at all that a killer would burn his victim in an incinerator he owned on property he owned. A large percentage of victims are found on property owned by their killers. What is suspicious is that he owned an incinerator at all, purchased just after the first victim disappeared.

Do you have a link for the statistics on that? We have yet to find out who ordered the incinerator much more info is needed to put to a jury.imo

No matter how many times it is said that because DM is not charged with the theft of the HD and trailer it means he is not responsible, that does not make it a fact. We do not know the status of that investigation.

It is a fact that we do not know the status of the investigation but we do know that DM has not been charged, another fact.

He lived with his son, his son is the most likely to have found him, as would have been the case in any family home.

Just listing a fact. He is now charged with shooting his father in the head.

Im sure the truth will be revealed in due course at trial.

Also a fact. If he was convicted we would not be here discussing this case.

That goes without saying.

I dont believe LB last calls were to DM. Also all but one appeared to be unanswered judging by the bill.imo

Such evidence can often exonerate an accused. Witnesses for the accused and other evidence may come to light.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes facts in this case.

MOO

Yes OK we will, and on whether or not there is lots to go on.

 

[Tamarind]

I think the main arguments for DM's innocence are:

He's too wealthy and wealth means class so he's too classy to do something like this (even though he's not a well educated aviation CEO but a high school dropout/good time boy)

His wealth has nothing to do with it at all IMO. He seems like a regular guy with good manners from what I have read. I do not see a good time boy, unless that means he likes to spend time with friends like most people his age.

There's NO BODY. (I'm sure DM thought even if he were caught, the incinerator would clear him of all guilt, but I don't think that's gonna work out. Simple minds, however, think alike.)

Are you suggesting posters are simple in mind?
I for one don't believe that DM thought anything of the kind. JMO

He didn't have a criminal record (when he was arrested...now he has 5 major charges in 3 cases)

No criminal record is of importance to both the defense AND the crown/judge, so it's not something for sleuthers to disregard IMO

He was left holding the bag with all the evidence (And this means something opposite to the obvious?)

I don't believe anyone has said he was left holding the bag, they have said that it is very odd/strange/suspicious that an alleged killer would put all evidence on his own doorstep. Same accused has also said that he felt used.

Did I miss something?

Yes there are a few more things that have been taken into consideration. But all have been posted before at some point.

 

[Sillybilly]

Homework for this weekend: how many cases of first degree murder were dropped because the person/victim turned up alive? GO!

I think that happened on an old Perry Mason case once