Remains Discussion Part 4 UPDATE Caylee Tentatively ID'ed

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As sad as it is, I am so glad that the water that covered the bag and Caylee's remains for so long helped preserved tissue and hair. Casey is so evil. She premeditated this, and wanted it to look like a kidnapping. Too bad she is too lazy and stupid. She thought she was home free. I HATE HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I was unable to log on at all yesterday and read, then all i caught was part of NG and a snip on CNN until today.

I was thinking that the duct-tape was on the outside of the bag until I read details here and Friday's posts on the TM thread about Casey's reaction to finding Caylee.

I think premeditation and lots of anger directed both at Cindy and Caylee for cramping her.
 
Bond suggested to me yesterday that the duct tape may have been placed there when Casey noticed leakage in the back of the car after 2.6 days.

snipped.

I dont think so. She didnt do a single intelligent thing - and if a body is leaking putting it in a bag stops a mess. Duct tape after death for leakage would be somewhat smarter and KC is not.

Also, my heart wont let me believe even she could wrap tape around the face of her dead baby 2.6 days (or whenever) later.
 
Is it possible for soft tissue to remain for six months or does that suggest the body was frozen for a while? I don't know what to make of all of this but I certainly believe it was premeditated. I think there must surely be fingers prints and hair on the duct tape. I hope she gets the death penalty.

Not frozen, as it's central Florida and not cold enough yet. I live here too and it's not been that cold. I think that the remains in a bag and in water alone would help preserve it this length of time. Had it not rained and flooded, had it not been in a bag, then there would be nothing but bones by now and they'd probably be scattered, because of the animals.
 
I saw a tv show one time, not sure if it was cold case.

Anyways, they found this person in a river up north after they had been in there for months from what I remember. The big thing was that they where able to tell that the person had not drowned but had been put in the water after they where deceased because the tissue had become waxy and there was still alot of tissue because it had been preserved because of this.
Does anyone else remember seeing a show about this?

If she was in water for sometime this may be the case.
 
this duct tape over the mouth is making me sick... I am trying to imagine, but not wanting to, what she did to that child. Putting tape over the mouth may decrease the bodily fluids leaking from there, but what about over all the other openings? I just dont see Casey thinking about that. That tape must have been put on her before she died.
 
Also 1 expert guy on TV said that a head usually doesn't detach like it did. So was Caylee's neck broken as well?


I thought so too. KC's search for "neck breaking" came in handy. She probably taped her mouth, chloroformed her nose, then broke her neck.

What a sick, sick, SICK person.
 
Since chloraform also plays a part in this, duct tape could have been used to tape a heavily soaked rag over the mouth and nose. I think they'll either come up with suffocation and/or chloraform death. Casey wouldn't have just had duct tape laying around her vehicle or room. She had to go get it somewhere in the home and have some sort of plan. Chloraform, duct tape, missing kids, found with no clothes in plastic bag. A kidnapping plan.
 
I didn't mean frozen in the water. I meant as in hidden in a freezer and then placed there to be found. Just wondering out loud. I agree LWOP in gen pop would be just fine with me.
 
:furious:I would happily put the needle in her arm myself.
She IS a monster and she deserves no better than what she DID to her own flesh and blood. :furious:

God have mercy on my soul, you worded my feelings EXACTLY.:furious:
 
No reason to put Duct tape on the mouth of a live person without putting it on the hands/wrists. Surely it must also be on the wrists (if it was put on her alive).
 
That piece of chit Casey might have tried to stage a kidnapping, ie tape/Chloroform and then it all went awry.

As long as it is LWOP then I will be satisfied.
 
Right. Likely put the tape on the mouth after death to stage it for kidnapping. If she didn't tape the wrists - really really dumb.
 
The duct tape is not likely to have been used to reduce leakage or stage a kidnapping. First, if it was to reduce leakage, there would have been more tape around the eyes, nose, pelvic and anal area. There has been no indication more tape was present than around the skull in the area of the mouth. Second, there was no kidnapping story even hinted at by KC until she had a talk with LA on the evening of July 15. Then, that story grew with additional details as earlier details were disproved. Therefore, at the time of disposal of the body, KC had not yet fabricated the kidnapping story.

So, what is the probable explanation? The computer shows there was research into chloroform, making chloroform and neck breaking prior to the big Scamthony blow-out on June 15, 2008 over financial issues, child care issues, unfit mother issues, custody issues and independent living issues. Then the blow-out. KC left in a rage. There was duct tape and a knife found in the car. Friends also said when KC previously brought Caylee to parties, Caylee would "sleep" through any amount of noise or commotion around her. She may have been chloroformed. Chloroform is a short acting agent. A constant drip is needed to keep a person unconscious during a 1 or 2 hour surgery. A wire mesh mask covered with absorbant cotton is used to keep the damp chloroform away from the mouth and nose because it causes skin irritation and redness. Some prior photos of Caylee show redness around the mouth area. It also has nasty side effects. A person becoming conscious after being chloroformed will have nausea, vomiting and severe headaches. IF KC left the house in a rage on June 15, 2008, and headed to TonE's house, but took Caylee with her because of the unfit mother, child care/responsibility and impending custody challenge by CA; and some prior boyfriend had indicated it wasn't good to have Caylee present at a sleep-over with sexual activity, then the only place KC had for Caylee was the car, or the motel where she was seen pacing. KC wanted Caylee unconscious for a longer period of time than ever before. The trunk was saturated with a substantial amount of chloroform. The duct tape and knife were in the car. KC didn't want Caylee to be heard crying out or to vomit. There is a distince possibility that KC chloroformed Caylee, slapped the duct tape around her head and mouth tight enough to preserve soft tissue underneath (unwittingly), and left her in the trunk. KC's emotions about all the attention of her parents being "all about Caylee" underscores this willingness to hurt Caylee or extreme disregard and gross negligence in her care. Caylee died, perhaps of an overdose of chloroform, or by asphixiating on her own vomit (drowning in her own vomit), which can happen to a semi-conscious patient regaining conscious. That is why medical people watch them in post-op and keep the airway clear. In this event, not only did this action meet the legal definitions of premeditation and first degree homicide, it was no accidental overdose because administering chloroform in the first instance to achieve unconsciousness of a toddler rather than provide the legal duty of parental care is by itself extreme negligence and physical child abuse.

In light of the above, I am also thinking this probably meets the legal definition of torture, depending on Florida caselaw. The chloroform and duct tape uses were torture.
 
snipped.

I dont think so. She didnt do a single intelligent thing - and if a body is leaking putting it in a bag stops a mess. Duct tape after death for leakage would be somewhat smarter and KC is not.

Also, my heart wont let me believe even she could wrap tape around the face of her dead baby 2.6 days (or whenever) later.

I agree that she is not smart enough to use the duct tape to keep in the leakage. I had thought all along that maybe she was smart enough to make sure Caylee was never found, etc., but now I know she is just a lazy idiot. She wanted to make it seem like a kidnapping with the duct tape. I am still not sure when she put the tape on. I wouldn't put it past her to put in on just before she dumped her. :furious:
 
I didn't mean frozen in the water. I meant as in hidden in a freezer and then placed there to be found. Just wondering out loud. I agree LWOP in gen pop would be just fine with me.

Ewww. I never even thought about that one.
 
CNN has a banner up that says the remains have been tentatively ID'd as Caylee.

First new thread so I hope I did this correctly.
 
adipocere, that is the word I was looking for.

"When postmortem environmental conditions are "just right," according to the "Goldilocks Phenomenon," soft tissues (and associated fatty acids) are converted into and preserved as adipocere. To better understand this conversion process and the development of adipocere three human cadavers were immersed in outside, water-filled pits for over 3 months to observe adipocere formation in an underwater context simulating actual field conditions. Recordings of environmental conditions showed that temperatures were between 21°C and 45°C, a range sufficient for the growth of Clostridium perfringens. Chemical analysis of liquid and tissue samples revealed an increase in palmitic acid and decrease in oleic acid. This study tracked the remarkable gross morphological changes that can occur in human bodies subjected to an aquatic postmortem environment. The results support the "Goldilocks Phenomenon" and substantiate previous findings that the presence of bacteria and water is crucial for adipocere to form"
 
If CNN is saying that, they must feel pretty confident in the ID. I know Tim Miller said they told him it was her.

RIP baby Caylee.
 
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