Rescued beagles experience grass & sunlight for the 1st time

[Herding Cats]

Good questions, Hopeful One..

I think what I'm worried about is that as this particular rescue continues to do it's work, there may come another beagle in as bad a shape as Romi was. And I'd want to help. I don't know if I have the room (I'm waaaaay past the city limits on animals, but they don't know that...and I'm not tellin' them!).

I will say that the rescue said that most of the time, the beagles make a great recovery and are not nearly in the shape Romi was in. Most of the dogs are able to be placed in "regular" homes, and Romi was the first that they came across suffering like he was with all the emotional issues he has/had. So I don't think there are too many out there like Romi, as the rest of "The Spanish 40" as they are referred to have been placed and are doing totally wonderfully without the issues Romi and I are encountering and addressing.

But I'd want to help if one as "bad" (I hate the way that sounds; he's not "bad", but he was in serious trouble, you know?) as Romi came around...but I don't know if I could, or would be able to.

I will definitely do what's right for the pups, no doubt. I think I will hold off making a final decision until the rescue folks come over next weekend, and see the changes in Romi, and discuss things with them.

In the meantime, I'm prayin', and as always, appreciate and value your input. It helps more than you know.

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Herding Cats

 

[SondraK]

I have been following your saga from the beginning, and as I sit here reading that you are considering letting Romi go to another home, I am crying. I do not cry easily. I am an animal lover, and have several rescue furkids. Through my tears, I vote that you keep Romi in the only loving home he has ever known. Of course, it is your decision.
Blessings....you are an exceptional person.

 

[Steely Dan]

Respectfully snipped for space.

You ARE that special and it IS your treatment that has helped him. I do not see an ego involved. Only your heart that wants the best for this little guy. Thank you for asking for our input.

:goodpost:

Just know, everybody, that I am in a position to be able to provide for this guy's needs...or I wouldn't have taken him in the first place. And while the foster agency has offered reimbursement/food/wee-wee pads, et cetera, I have asked that the funds they put aside for each dog, Romi's share go to someone else or for another rescue.

I would not have brought him in if I wasn't able to care for him (and no, I don't think anyone here thinks I would. LOL...). Just clarifying and removing one concern that may be present for some.

Me and Romi have been having discussions about it, and so have me and Gracie. LOL. And me and my heart are talking, too.

I think one of the things which is keeping me from saying "yes, he's home permanently" is that what if there's another rescue who needs the same sort of TLC? Would I be able to have the room and be able to help, if the call came? I am not sure. Again, the ego speaks, LOL.

Keep the thoughts and ideas coming. I very much appreciate the outside perspective; I am (as always) too close to the situation to be as fair and impartial as I'd like to be, you know?

BTW, Romi is doing well, even with his adventures. No potty accidents, and he spent some time on the sofa with me while I was playing Zelda last night. He just stretched out, put his head on my robe, and let me rub his belly...and when I stopped, he'd lift his head and wave a paw at me like "oh, man, please don't stop. I think I like belly rubbing and ribscratching!" LOL.

And while this was on the sofa, Gracie was laying at my feet, on her back, and I was rubbing her belly with my feet. She LOVES that...and it keeps my feet warm. LOL.

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Herding Cats

At this time I think you have to keep Romi and not take any other dogs in. I think three dogs could be harmful because Gracie and Romi may be so close by that time that another dog might not get the same kind of attention from the other dogs they need.

I see this as a gift from God for this dog and if the rescue needs another home I'd offer to assist the new owners with acclimating the dog. After a couple of years of this I think you should write a book about your experiences so new rescue owners have something to help them. If you wanted to you could donate all profits to the rescue.

Another question to ask is would Gracie ever forgive you? JMO

P.S. All I'll say about Simon's email is that he would be upset to see this dog go. DON'T tell him I said anything. He'd be mortified by my telling you that.

 

[invisibleninja]

Oh please keep Romi! I can't bear the thought of him going elsewhere.

I agree with others; sometimes things happen that we weren't planning on or expecting, but they end up being just what we need. After we got our beagle, Clank, we had no plans or thoughts about getting another dog. And then a few months later my husband was walking Clank one night and what did Clank find? A newborn puppy laying abandoned in some grass. And before we knew it, we were rushing to the emergency vet and dropping $750 and then I was bottle feeding a 9 ounce puppy every 2 hours around the clock. That little puppy (Ratchet) is now 3 years old and 60lbs and I can't imagine not having him here.

We didn't plan on cats either, but then Clank found two 5 week old kittens on our back fence about 1 1/2 years ago that are still here with us as well. (I've talked with him and told him to please not find anymore animals. lol jk)

It wasn't how we planned it but boy ... I'm so happy it worked out this way. Romi is already home. I don't think you need to find him a new one.

 

[babycat]

Herding Cats, the fact that he is already rolling over and exposing his belly to you shows a lot of trust. He has come a LONG way in a SHORT time for someone that has had to endure what he has, and I'm sure he thinks he is in a dream He will only get happier as he continues to trust and learn how happy life can be. I really hope that you can keep him, but I support anything you decide, as I trust you only have his best interests at heart! I hope he stays...please keep us updated!

 

[Camille]

I actually debated with myself over this last night, sounds crazy I know. I was surprised but then not so surprised to see the reason for the hesitation in committing to keeping Romi. Surprised because I know from reading this that there is already a strong emotional attachment, not so surprised because as I turned this over in my head the only down side to you keeping him that I could come up with is that if another rescue came along that needed you I didn't think that you would be available to take them.


I don't think that it's time to answer the question yet because it's obviously not time for Romi to go anywhere. There is a still a lot of work that needs to be done with him. There may come a time when you feel as though he could leave there and bond with someone else but I think that you know that time isn't here yet.


As for Gracie and him, if the time comes that Romi can find a forever home somewhere else, I'm sure that Graci will welcome the next rescue in and work her magic with them in the same manner she has with Romi. She'll mourn, just as you will, but she'll give more as well.


I would like to add that you are a wonderful loving person HC but you are also a fabulous writer. Look at how you have brought so many emotions to so many people. I do think that you should do something to combine your talent for healing and caring for creatures with your talent for allowing others to experience your journeys through your words. :seeya:

 

[belimom]

(snip)
I think one of the things which is keeping me from saying "yes, he's home permanently" is that what if there's another rescue who needs the same sort of TLC? Would I be able to have the room and be able to help, if the call came? I am not sure. Again, the ego speaks, LOL.
(snip)

bbm

HC, you have such a humongous and kind heart, to want to make yourself available for other animals that may need help.

I have debated chiming in b/c who am I to tell someone else what they *should* do? (I don't like the word *should*...). Having said that, here is my honest opinion.

I believe any act of humanitarian aid should (ha ha - 'should') be given only after one's own family is taken care of first, as that is top priority. In college (ages ago), I heard Billy Graham speak for a solid week at a missions conference (Urbana '87 --- another lifetime...:innocent. He drove home the point to not even consider missions if there is a need in your own family, neighborhood, church, community, etc. Start at the inner circle and move outward. If everyone did that, then others wouldn't be needed to go elsewhere to take care of people. Everyone would be taken care of. Of course, it sounds all nice and ego-building and charitable for people to say "I gave money to feed a hungry child in Africa" without giving a penny to the hungry children in their own city.

Extrapolating that to your situation, I believe that Romi believes you are his family now. I believe Gracie believes Romi is family. And, I believe you do, too. He wasn't just an average dog who needed rehabilitation when you took him in. As Penelope said, he was traumatized. Didn't know he was a dog, even an animal. Didn't even feel 'alive' on the inside. Now he knows a life a love, of belonging, of companionship, of a big big dog friend, of a herd of cats, and of you. That's his entire world. I think that's why the open gate initially scared him - as if, "You mean there's more out there?" Akin to thinking that world is flat and what will happen if he steps out of the backyard and over the 'edge of the world'? Romi is in your 'inner circle' now, and you in his.

It is your decision and I believe you will make a good one. I just wanted to add my perspective to the mix.

If you do decide to keep him, he may be a huge asset one day to a scared little doggie who has had a bad life - and can whisper comforting doggie words when you're not around.

 

[Herding Cats]

I got this vid in an email today...just wanted to share it. BTW, I didn't find Romi in any of it, and while they are announcing that all 40 have been adopted, I'm still not final in my decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTNnAQpHPwc&feature=youtu.be

OTOH, Romi did take a nice snuggly nap with me today...and he liked it "yots."

And Steely, can you post the email from Simon, since you won't send it to me? LOL, if you put it on line, you can't really be called a blabbermouth. You might be called other names, but if everyone could read it at the same time I did, it's not like before. Besides, you're on the other side of the country, and Boogs does not travel well, so you're actually quite safe from any schimonizing.

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Herding Cats

 

[Steely Dan]

I got this vid in an email today...just wanted to share it. BTW, I didn't find Romi in any of it, and while they are announcing that all 40 have been adopted, I'm still not final in my decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTNnAQpHPwc&feature=youtu.be

OTOH, Romi did take a nice snuggly nap with me today...and he liked it "yots."

And Steely, can you post the email from Simon, since you won't send it to me? LOL, if you put it on line, you can't really be called a blabbermouth. You might be called other names, but if everyone could read it at the same time I did, it's not like before. Besides, you're on the other side of the country, and Boogs does not travel well, so you're actually quite safe from any schimonizing.

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Herding Cats

Only if you promise not to tell him.

 

[Herding Cats]

Pinky swear...

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Herding Cats

 

[Steely Dan]

Pinky swear...

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Herding Cats

Ok, I'm gonna trust you, even though you've been a stool pigeon before. I know he doesn't read here so I'll trust you.

This is it;

Dang I hated those dogs all to :censored: hell. I'm not afraid of Gracie because I can out maneuver her and get into places she can't until she calms down. That dog Romeo I couldn't figure out though. When mom's not home I'll hold dog biscuits up and tease them. (I'm still working on getting some pictures for you :giggle Gracie can get frustrated and a little mad and she chases me, but I'm like the little English ships that outmaneuvered the big Spanish Gallions. Romi doesn't get mad at all. He just walks away with a (pardon the pun) hangdog expression. Almost like he's used to disappointment. I think he was promised some nice things before and then was given something bad instead. What did I care though? I mean really. It's no fur off my hide.

Then the other day I heard mom on the phone with some people from a place called "Animal Rescue" and I decided to do some internet research. I was horrified by what I found. The things they did to that poor dog made me feel sorry for him. (Yes, I really did type that.) Let's make it clear that I don't feel bad for dogs, just that dog. They did things I'd never do to a dog. Teasing and divebombing are one thing, but they could have killed him. Then I found out they do that :censored: to cats too!!

I called Romi over and he's always so nice he came right over, even though I hear he's been warned about me. "Hai Mr. Blue Eye" he said. I asked him if the stuff on the internet was true or not. He said yeah. I asked him what they did to him over there and he just started whimpering and crying. Believe it or not I do have a soft spot. So I didn't hit him with the bat I had hidden, I felt too bad for him. He said he didn't want to talk about it. He said it was like a nightmare and that now he's woken up in a beautiful dream.

I also learned he's a lot smarter than I thought. His inability to speak English well isn't because he's stupid. It's because it's new to him. He's fluent in Italian, and really smart. I think God meant to put his brain into a cat and just made a mistake. He took me to some Italian websites and showed me some funny stuff. My Italian isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I'm still working on it. (Too bad he wasn't a German Shepherd because my German is dead on.) He translated what I didn't know and we laughed together. He said that over there, whenever he could, he'd sneak out and cruise funny websites because they helped him forget for a little while.

He's smarter than everyone else, except me, and I finally have someone to talk to about String Theory and history things, like how it's sad the Egyptian society no longer worships cats. He even pays attention and asks politely if he can lick his private area while we're talking. Nobody in this house, who can, has ever asked permission before.

So, I think I like this dog. Notice I said "THIS DOG". Gracie's smart but all she wants to do is hug and play fetch and come and stay. She's also annoying as :censored: hell and fun for me to tease.

Just as we're starting to get along I heard mom talking to someone about maybe giving him away and for the first time in my life I actually cared about something, other than myself. He heard it too and it made him sad and scared. I told him to just keep loving on mom, she's a sucker for the love thing, and she'll be too in love with him to let him go. Then he hit me with a bat he had hidden, knocked me clear across the room. God I like this dog a lot!!!

Don't tell mom about all of this, but you can tell her that I'd be disappointed if he went away. I think he's like my brother from another mother of a lesser breed. Please try to get her to keep him.

If you tell anyone that I like a dog I'll run across country and poop on your pillow!!! :furious: Believe me I can. Annoying Gracie has put me into great shape.

Like I care about you,

Simon

BTW, keeping him would be a lot better than another big goof like Gracie running around here.

 

[belimom]

Steely - you have me both laughing and crying at the same time...

 

[Hopeful One]

Pictures, Herding Cats!! We want pictures!!!! You can't have little Romi all to yourself, it isn't fair!!!

 

[Steely Dan]

Steely - you have me both laughing and crying at the same time...

Where did you see my picture? :waitasec:

 

[octobermoon]

Where did you see my picture? :waitasec:

Oh stop!

That was beautiful. You are a wonderful caring soul. And you can't make anyone of us believe otherwise.

 

[Mom who cares]

Misser Blue Eyed Katz make me curious bout them speriments on the doggies. Me looked on the pokey box. Now mez gotz water comin from da eyes.

 

[Steely Dan]

Misser Blue Eyed Katz make me curious bout them speriments on the doggies. Me looked on the pokey box. Now mez gotz water comin from da eyes.

I don't want to know. I'm afraid I'd be depressed for weeks if I read any of that.

 

[Herding Cats]

The experiments are usually pretty severe, and I don't think most people would be able to eat dinner after looking/reading about it. Especially overseas, where the testing oversight is vastly different and more cruel and inhumane. In one experiment that I know of, several bones were broken, and one was set, one was operated on and augmented by different things (pins, screens, et cetera), and one was left to heal on it's own. They were trying to see how much time difference there was with healing...

Romeo has been in at least two laboratories. He has two tattoos, one in each ear, indicating he has been used in at least 2 labs (each lab either puts their own tat in the ear, or, if the existing tat is unique enough, they don't re-tat). Romi may have been in several more than 2.

One of the dogs in his batch had been used for head/neck experiments, and now has such neurological deficeits that he is staying at the rescue itself - he needs almost constant care. As far as we know, and we don't know much, Romi didn't have surgery, and he does not have neuro deficeits. He "just" has huge emotional and mental issues.

Simon is right; what they do to those animals is horrible, and nothing that any living animal should go through. And while I support some research, as it can find effective medications and be beneficial, I don't like it in the least. As I've said before, for me, it's a grey area, and should only be done with altruistic goals in mind. Experimenting to see which brand of pin in a bone, for example, is faster (and thus can be sold at higher prices to osteopathic surgeons) is a serious problem; operating to see if it works at all is another story. Does that make sense?

Anyway, yes, it can and should make folks cry. What goes on behind closed lab doors and overseas is a horrific event to witness...and it's aftermath is worse. But there is hope...if Romi is any example, these dogs can come back pretty far in a good, solid environment.

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Herding Cats

 

[Steely Dan]

The experiments are usually pretty severe, and I don't think most people would be able to eat dinner after looking/reading about it. Especially overseas, where the testing oversight is vastly different and more cruel and inhumane. In one experiment that I know of, several bones were broken, and one was set, one was operated on and augmented by different things (pins, screens, et cetera), and one was left to heal on it's own. They were trying to see how much time difference there was with healing...

Romeo has been in at least two laboratories. He has two tattoos, one in each ear, indicating he has been used in at least 2 labs (each lab either puts their own tat in the ear, or, if the existing tat is unique enough, they don't re-tat). Romi may have been in several more than 2.

One of the dogs in his batch had been used for head/neck experiments, and now has such neurological deficeits that he is staying at the rescue itself - he needs almost constant care. As far as we know, and we don't know much, Romi didn't have surgery, and he does not have neuro deficeits. He "just" has huge emotional and mental issues.

Simon is right; what they do to those animals is horrible, and nothing that any living animal should go through. And while I support some research, as it can find effective medications and be beneficial, I don't like it in the least. As I've said before, for me, it's a grey area, and should only be done with altruistic goals in mind. Experimenting to see which brand of pin in a bone, for example, is faster (and thus can be sold at higher prices to osteopathic surgeons) is a serious problem; operating to see if it works at all is another story. Does that make sense?

Anyway, yes, it can and should make folks cry. What goes on behind closed lab doors and overseas is a horrific event to witness...and it's aftermath is worse. But there is hope...if Romi is any example, these dogs can come back pretty far in a good, solid environment.

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Herding Cats

BBM

Back when I worked at the hospital I started a side job helping people with their resumes. A woman I dated (only dated :sigh was going into a different field and I did her resume with her. She had worked in an animal testing lab and I told her she should leave it off the resume because it was such a hot button issue. We got into a huge argument about it. I was calm, but she was really mad that I had tried a couple of times to convince her to keep it off.

What made her so angry is that she said part of her job was to make sure the animals were treated well. She would take them out periodically and play with them and pet them and give them some love. She also made sure they received pain meds regularly. She said if anyone had a problem with it she'd tell them the exact same thing and if they didn't like it she wouldn't want to work with them anyway. She was really worked up and so I kept it in, but worded it carefully. I included the part about making the animals comfortable. Until now I didn't realize there was a big difference in American animal testing vs. other countries. It should have been obvious, because we tend to be stricter with a lot of things like that.

I feel like you do HC when it comes to this. I'm not a huge fan of it, but at the same time the drugs I was given to kill my cancer, and the other drugs I take daily were most likely tested on animals first. I am not in favor of frivolous animal testing like your example of testing which steel rod they can charge more for. Like you, I think that's ridiculous. I also don't like cosmetic testing on animals or other such things that aren't necessary for human medical advancement.

BTW, Penn and Teller did a show on PETA and one of the leaders was using insulin derived from pigs. I'd also bet many, many of the PETA members use drugs to keep themselves alive and/or comfortable that have been tested on animals too. Like you say it's a grey area. JMO

 

[Herding Cats]

Honestly, Steely, I don't support PETA...I find them far too radical and, well, terroristic. They can be quite violent, and I just can't get behind that; not to mention some of the theories they support are just - well, ridiculous.

But yes, in Europe, there is not the same oversight. I don't think it's helpful to explain some of the experiments I've heard of (and that Romi may have participated in...), but there are some that make me cringe.

The difficulty for me comes with a lot of meds. All of the meds we take have been tested on animals, before they were tested on humans, and before they were used in the medical field. From cancer and insulin to aspirin, everything that is medical based does indeed have to clear protocol with animals first. I can understand that; don't like it, but appreciate the medications keeping people alive.

But to test something like one steel pin v. the other steel pin, for boasting rights and higher prices is horrific. And honestly, we all know that if we spray Windex or Clorox Cleanup in our eyes, there can/will be problems. We don't need animal testing to prove that. I mean, really. The same with make-up. And anytime anything is "new/improved", it's gone through another animal testing protocol.

So I use vinegar, a lot, and wear little makeup. And in the meantime, I snuggle Romi and apologize for all the mean folks in his life, and explain that things are different now. He's having a bad day today, and is somewhat withdrawn, and snapped and lunged at Gracie over a bone tonight, so poor guy is feeling some sort of stress. It could also be that Gracie seems to have gone through a big energy spurt today, and likely pissed him off playing too rough. LOL, she does that on occasion. So it may just be that.

Enough. I don't like to dwell on his past, and can only help him in the present and the future. He's a dear one, and the only reason to even think about his past is because of his behavior...and sometimes, not even that. KWIM?

Time to bring the pair in and off to bed with them...

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Herding Cats