Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 1/15 thru 1/20 Break

[MaryND]

AZL - not sure if this has been asked/answered before: will her counsel change once she is sentenced, or does KN and JW stay on for the appeal process?

 

[Madeleine74]

Obviously it won't be spa like. It's prison. But it's the difference between spending your life in solitary confinement with little human interaction and a hell of your own making and getting to come out and interact with your fellow prisoners and get along ok.

That's out of everyone's control. She could be picked on and bullied in general population, those things also happen. She could end up in AdSeg at times for misbehaving, which is like solitary confinement. She'll have some human interaction with the other women on DR if she ends up there. We don't know which environment might be worse for her, we only know what would be worse for us.

 

[MeeBee]

That's out of everyone's control. She could be picked on and bullied in general population, those things also happen. She could end up in AdSeg at times for misbehaving, which is like solitary confinement. She'll have some human interaction with the other women on DR if she ends up there. We don't know which environment might be worse for her, we only know what would be worse for us.

Of course. But that's the thought process. She won't really interact with anyone not even her fellow DR inmates from what I understand. At least not much. She gets 23 hours a day in solitary. Everyday. Forever. People who live this way say it is a fate worse than death. That's where she'd be until she dies. Being in general pop is a bit easier. Most inmates adjust well enough and don't have too many complaints other than the treatment by guards and just that prison sucks. Either way her existence will not be pleasant. But I don't know how anyone can say we don't know that solitary wouldn't be worse for her. Of course it would be. It would be for anyone especially someone who demands an audience and constant attention.

 

[dog.gone.cute]

I agree. I don't think the *advertiser censored* topic is dead. They seem to be relying on it.

:seeya:

BBM: I agree ... the "*advertiser censored* topic" will never be dead and the DT will bring it up every chance they get because that desperate bunch has nothing else !


Oh Kensie, luv your signature with the Seinfeld clips . . . :hilarious: !

 

[Frigga]

Of course. But that's the thought process. She won't really interact with anyone not even her fellow DR inmates from what I understand. At least not much. She gets 23 hours a day in solitary. Everyday. Forever. People who live this way say it is a fate worse than death. That's where she'd be until she dies. Being in general pop is a bit easier. Most inmates adjust well enough and don't have too many complaints other than the treatment by guards and just that prison sucks. Either way her existence will not be pleasant. But I don't know how anyone can say we don't know that solitary wouldn't be worse for her. Of course it would be. It would be for anyone especially someone who demands an audience and constant attention.

BBM The more I think about this, it would be absolute torture for someone who is BPD, their biggest fear on the planet is abandonment. Death row would be the epitome of abandonment.

 

[ShadyLady]

We need some fireworks to start off this thread to celebrate Judge Stephens ruling to dismiss the DP and smackdown the defense::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::smiliescale::justice::jumping::jumping::jumping::skip::skip::skip::happydance:

I see you guys partied all night while I watched "Missing". Almost couldn't find this thread this morning.

Dewy eyes....

 

[AZlawyer]

AZL - not sure if this has been asked/answered before: will her counsel change once she is sentenced, or does KN and JW stay on for the appeal process?

Hey everyone, Good morning I have a question for AZLawyer, after this trial is over and the murderer starts her appeals, will nurmi still be her lawyer, if not, how is a new lawyer chosen for her, or does she choose who her new lawyer will be? Thank you so very much for all your help! Could you be her lawyer for her appeals?

AZLawyer, adding on to these questions: if a new lawyer is assigned to her, can the lawyer say he /she does not want to represent her in the appeals? Are assigned lawyers even allowed to decline a case?

I would think the lawyer would have to be very strong in their beliefs, practices and ethics to represent FJA as she would want to run the show again.

She will get a new lawyer for the appeal, assigned by the office of court-appointed counsel. The new lawyer cannot decline unless, e.g., there is a conflict of interest.

She can, of course, bypass this process and hire her own private lawyer. But she will need a heck of a lot more $$ than the $30K or whatever she's managed to scrape up thus far.

Not it.

I will celebrate THAT IF and WHEN JSS says to the jurors to strike testimony of *advertiser censored*, as none was found. It never should have been allowed. I am sure his family feels the same way.

I'm also thinking that not bringing Geffner back until the 20th was strategic since he couldn't talk about the *advertiser censored* (that's the first rule of the *advertiser censored*) until this other stuff was resolved. Now, since the findings of *advertiser censored* are so dubious will judge allow Geffner to talk about the *advertiser censored* now? I don't see how she could.

Wait. I thought there WAS *advertiser censored* allegedly found. Human-caused, non-virus *advertiser censored* on June 1, 2008 (Travis or whoever was there on YouPorn for 45 minutes?) and on June 19, 2009 (Flores or Juan supposedly GMAB). So if the defense wants to say that watching YouPorn for 45 minutes proves you are a "Jekyll and Hyde" master manipulator of double-life-living who can drive a slightly unbalanced sweet girl to commit premeditated triple-cruel murder, as far as I'm concerned I hope Juan doesn't even object. The jury will be so turned off by that argument.

 

[salberg7]

I am not an attorney, but read somewhere the killer will have her appeal paid for by the State of Arizona by an appellate level state paid public defender if the killer can 't afford to hire her own. I think KN & JW can defend her if they wish but paid for by the killer. After sentencing the first trial is complete and thus KN & JW have completed their service, like that jury, and are excused. Hoping our AZL can confirm.
Another aspect of this trial that bugs me is, what the heck are they paying MDLR for? In reading the job descriptions listed here on Mitigation Specialists, shouldn't Maria have been responsible for helping the DT gather those affidavits & potential mitigation witnesses together? How does smuggling the killer's art out of jail fit in her job description? What a waste of more taxpayer money, seriously.
CMJA HAS no mitigating factors. Imagine not having at least 5 people from your past not want to try to help spare your life. Sort of tells you what kind of a person the killer is. Karma is about to start the engine on the road to Perryville.

**By the way, does anyone think the "fog" has lifted and CMJA remembers the details of June 4,2008? I was wondering if she had been able to continue her testiphony in private, would she have elaborated? I am 50/50 on that...

 

[ShadyLady]

Since Nurmi in his opening described JA as "diagnosed with PTSD and BPD" then I imagine Geffner or yet another psych witness will explain how her "mental illness" impacted her actions. It would be bizarre to hear Geffner supporting the BPD diagnosis he totally rejected in Trial 1 imo, and iirc neither Geffner nor Fonseca have ever spoken to JA. Very, very odd.

I watched Dr DeMarte again....she clearly said that Jodi did not suffer from PTSD only BPD.

But, for everyone that has forgotten this little exchange between Wilmot and Demarte, it's worth watching again. I also agree with what someone else upthread said, Nurmi and Wilmot were totally unmatched with Juan, LE and now the court. Bet the whole defense are licking their wounds about now....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFiDeRG-beY

 

[dog.gone.cute]

The judge has never ruled in favor of taking the DP off the table in what, 20 or 30 attempts by the defense? And how many claims of "prosecutorial misconduct" have they attempted? Another 15 or so?

Again, none of those motions have passed muster.

All the worry is for naught.

I don't know why anyone would think this judge is suddenly going to decide to take death away as a consideration when she didn't do so for years. Not gonna happen here.

1st BBM: Exactly ... none of the defense's motions had any merit whatsoever !

2nd BBM: Based on the consistently inefficient manner, constant delays, and lack of decorum in JSS's courtroom, I believe there was very good reason to "worry" how she would rule on this motions.

JSS should have never let the defense's motion "pile up" and because she had these DT motions pending for months, it made her look "incompetent" that she could NOT make a decision ... and when you have a judge that cannot make a decision in a reasonable amount of time on an issue that has absolutely no merit, it's only "natural" IMO to worry.

ETA:

I forgot something: JSS lost a lot of respect when she shut down that courtroom for JA to testify "in secret." So "worrying" IF she might remove the DP was a very valid concern considering her actions were unconstitutional.

Thank goodness her decision was overturned by the COA because no telling what else may have gone down in her courtroom.

:moo:

 

[MeeBee]

Last night it was brought up that it was not lost on juror 3 that Jodi's affect is not great. Zoey posted some great links of people including previous jurors who thought she was too emotionally flat when she was talking. She knows the words people want to hear but doesn't connect with them. Last night Kamille said she could hear Jodi while reading the transcripts. I could too. I was imagining her voice when reading, could even see her hand gestures and facial expressions.

When she was talking about Bobby chasing her and choking her I actually laughed. When Willmott asked how it made her feel said, "I thought, you just choked me." Like, oh crap, something bad happened. Then she goes after him and just says, "my family isn't gonna be happy when they find out what you did." Who says that? She sounded like a mafia princess. That was of course to set up the story of Carl and his gang paying Bobby a visit.

In one of the links zoey posted they were talking about how she uses her family for her benefit and only brings them up for sympathy and because she thinks that's a normal thing to do. She always hears people talking about how close they are to their family and how much they love them and she doesn't really relate to that but tries it anyway. Please don't kill me...for my family. This trial has been a burden...on my family. Please don't arrest me...because of my family.

Jodi has s very small bag of tricks. It's become repetitive.

 

[Mindmatters]

In terms of why JA wanted to testify in secret and whether or not JA will get back on the stand, I say she got on the stand in an attempt to show/express remorse (several of the jurors who voted for death after the trial said two things--they didn't believe her lies and she did not show any REMORSE), and to give alternate explanations of the facts JM will present. And no, I believe 100% that she will not take the stand again. Because IMO she got exactly what she wanted; express remorse and offer excuses for her behavior without ever having to be cross examined by Juan.

When I read the transcripts the one thing that stood out to me was how it didn't flow. She goes straight into the time just after the murder (making excuses for how she acted in the interrogation videos, why she left voice mail for TA knowing she killed him, why she as his murderer went to the TA's Memorial Service--not to be confused with the Funeral btw, why she sent his GM Irises, why she preemptively called EF, why she went to see RB after slaughtering TA, etc, etc. Essentially the strategy was:

Objective #1--show/express remorse,
Objective #2 create a picture of a misunderstood girl who grew up in an increasingly dark and unfeeling home with drug using parents who neglected, physically abused and exploited her (you know the whole my dad had me working for him at the age of 13 and I was their live-in babysitter)--oh yeah and a mother who used drugs while pregnant with her at least once...maybe more but who knows,
Objective #3-- create a false narrative to explain away the veritable mountain of state's evidence of who and what she really is, i.e., that she had a history of stalking/aggression/violating privacy with prior boyfriends and hopping immediately to her next boyfriend which was selected from the friends of boyfriend who was on the way out, that she was a sexually experienced woman that used sex to lure in a successful man and when that failed resorted to stalking, manipulation, and ultimately violence because she didn't get her way, and
Objective #4--show how TA was some kind of sexually deviant Mormon Svengali/Jekyll Hide that exploited a fragile, naive, and abused woman who just wanted someone to finally love, marry and give her a family.

It is my belief that the defense cleverly prearranged the order in which her testimony would be delivered knowing full well that the Judge's closing of the courtroom wouldn't last and they had a golden opportunity to make statements that could not be called into question. And yes they knew it wouldn't be scrutinized/contradicted because JM asked JSS in a side-bar to strike her testimony if she wasn't going to testify any further, and we all know that instructing the jury to "disregard" the testimony is good in theory but in practice is an unrealistic expectation --the DT is not stupid they know that telling the jury to "un-hear" the testimony they heard is near impossible. I really wish JSS hadn't allowed her to testify in secret because all it takes is one juror to derail justice!!

 

[Spellbound]

In one of the links zoey posted they were talking about how she uses her family for her benefit and only brings them up for sympathy and because she thinks that's a normal thing to do. She always hears people talking about how close they are to their family and how much they love them and she doesn't really relate to that but tries it anyway. Please don't kill me...for my family. This trial has been a burden...on my family. Please don't arrest me...because of my family.

Jodi has s very small bag of tricks. It's become repetitive.

Objective #2 create a picture of a misunderstood girl who grew up in an increasingly dark and unfeeling home with drug using parents who neglected, physically abused and exploited her (you know the whole my dad had me working for him at the age of 13 and I was their live-in babysitter)--oh yeah and a mother who used drugs while pregnant with her at least once...maybe more but who knows,

Both quotes SBM, BBM


JA has used both these contradictory excuses, so which is true? "Don't kill me because it will hurt my abusive, drug using parents."

Can witness testimony be discarded by the jurors if they find any part not believable? In other words, if a juror believes a witness is lying, can they discard the entire testimony of that witness? If I were on the jury, that is exactly what I would do --- and there goes her entire case.

JMO

 

[ZoeyW]

She was dismissed because of "a scheduling conflict"? :waitasec:

From what we've heard, this jury is relatively young like #3. You would think that a young woman would be more likely to empathize with another young woman, but JA obviously turned this juror off bigtime. That's even more reason for the DT to keep JA off the stand if they can, and let their "experts" introduce anything they want. All they need to do is say JA told them something whether she did or not and they can bring it up, then when Juan crosses them he'll get "I don't know, she never discussed it from that angle." (Oh wait that would be perjury if she hadn't actually said it to them; never mind about that part.)

But then there's allocution. They're going to have her studying "The Complete Idiot's Guide to How to Sound Remorseful When You're Really Not" during her endless free time at Sheriff Joe's place. JA could be in the position (as she should be) that she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. If she fakes her way through it she's toast, but if she doesn't do it all she's toast.

She is toast. Funny and TRUE. I think this jury has seen and heard a lot about Jodi Arias even before they arrived on duty here. I think they walked in with a pretty good idea what they would vote and seeing the autopsy photos solidified it. IF they saw any of these type interviews she definitely is, as you say......toast http://youtu.be/4UXhVsuzRTE

 

[Frigga]

Both quotes SBM, BBM


JA has used both these contradictory excuses, so which is true? "Don't kill me because it will hurt my abusive, drug using parents."

Can witness testimony be discarded by the jurors if they find any part not believable? In other words, if a juror believes a witness is lying, can they discard the entire testimony of that witness? If I were on the jury, that is exactly what I would do --- and there goes her entire case.

JMO

Yes, yes they can. It is up to each juror to decide who and what to believe if a witness has given conflicting testimony or has been proven to lie.

Two words I hope ring in the jury's ears- secondary gain.

 

[Kamille]

Her life inside Perryville will be harsh regardless of what sentence she receives. And the public will not be privy to her day-to-day existence either. Conditions there are not spa-like as some fantasize. She will not be getting mani/pedis or sipping cocktails. Fantasy vs Reality.

No but she will be able to start "book clubs" and "recycling programs" (according to her), attend support programs, educational programs, religious services and basically live her life amongst the general population manipulating guards and inmates alike for her personal pleasure. Not sure about Perryville but most prisons also have work programs and I believe it was while Jeffrey Dahmer (who did receive a life sentence) was working in one that he was killed in prison. Pretty sure that JA would be able to adapt just fine, as she has at Estrella, and not be in any danger. She has spent 7 years trying to establish that her crime was a crime of self defence and I doubt you'll find any women in prison who would think she deserves to die for killing an ex boyfriend. She is not the type of murderer that would be at risk in general population IMO.

JA was floundering on the outside trying to find her way in the world and manipulating her way around unsuspecting people. She has done quite well for herself in jail and would continue to do so in prison in the general population because she knows how to adapt her manipulations to the type of people she's dealing with. Her crime warrants the death penalty in the state of AZ. The victim's family believes this is a just punishment. That is what she should receive. She has been unable to come up with one mitigating factor why she should not.

https://corrections.az.gov/programs-services

MOO

 

[LindaFaye]

How long do you this the retrial will go on ?

 

[Frigga]

She is toast. Funny and TRUE. I think this jury has seen and heard a lot about Jodi Arias even before they arrived on duty here. I think they walked in with a pretty good idea what they would vote and seeing the autopsy photos solidified it. IF they saw any of these type interviews she definitely is, as you say......toast http://youtu.be/4UXhVsuzRTE

I don't think anyone has to have heard her testimony, in advance, for her to be toast. The moment they heard her explain things in front of them on that witness stand, with her flat affect and hollow emotions, would be enough. What she claims does not match her demeanor- ever. IMO

 

[Ranchgirl]

Just finished reading JSS denial of defense motions. Reminded me of my two young sons sitting in the backseat of the car claiming that one was looking at the other. "Mom, he's looking at me!" Please, why is the court's time wasted with this stuff. JSS should have shut most of this stuff down sooner.
She is dealing with a defendant and team who are passive agressive. Example, JSS asked counsel to stand when they have objections. Not minutes later. LKN objected while sitting! No comment made! Not a big deal,but huge when looking at the big picture.

 

[Kamille]

Last night it was brought up that it was not lost on juror 3 that Jodi's affect is not great. Zoey posted some great links of people including previous jurors who thought she was too emotionally flat when she was talking. She knows the words people want to hear but doesn't connect with them. Last night Kamille said she could hear Jodi while reading the transcripts. I could too. I was imagining her voice when reading, could even see her hand gestures and facial expressions.

When she was talking about Bobby chasing her and choking her I actually laughed. When Willmott asked how it made her feel said, "I thought, you just choked me." Like, oh crap, something bad happened. Then she goes after him and just says, "my family isn't gonna be happy when they find out what you did." Who says that? She sounded like a mafia princess. That was of course to set up the story of Carl and his gang paying Bobby a visit.

In one of the links zoey posted they were talking about how she uses her family for her benefit and only brings them up for sympathy and because she thinks that's a normal thing to do. She always hears people talking about how close they are to their family and how much they love them and she doesn't really relate to that but tries it anyway. Please don't kill me...for my family. This trial has been a burden...on my family. Please don't arrest me...because of my family.

Jodi has s very small bag of tricks. It's become repetitive.

Just wanted to also point out that JA got up and did her robotic remorse speech on the SAME DAY that the jury had just seen the victim impact statements from Travis' siblings. Can you imagine the contrast?

I still wonder how they were able to pull that off so quickly with JSS closing the courtroom in the afternoon for the defence's very first witness or if that had already been predetermined. You'd think it would have taken JSS a few days at least to decide to do that. :waitasec:

Link to the court chatter recap page for that day... http://www.courtchatter.com/2014/10/pictures-from-day-6-in-jodi-arias.html

MOO