Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias #1

[LambChop]

The two sides float into Monday's conference on a tide of antagonism over defense witnesses. That has been duly reported in media. All parties are also pushed out of shape over other issues and orders to act, willing or not. Arias relies on her professional witness to sway the next jury and such witnesses usually seek publicity to advance their career & recognition from peers and prospective clients. For that reason, the defense may be pressured to think again regarding cameras in the courtroom. The television motion may be more persuasive this time round, as well.

Judge Stephens has demonstrated that she insists on an orderly court, so we can expect the parties to the proceeding to conduct themselves with civility. Now that Arias has retreated to a passive position in her defendant's seat, there may be fewer snarls. She will continue to drag, brake and stall, however. That in itself is enough to spur a crisis Monday.

Okay. I have to ask. Will there be a crisis for Jodi or for the prosecution?

 

[MeeBee]

I am in no way defending Jodi, and I respect Dr. Horn and Det. Flores.

My point is, it may viewed differently from a juror's perpective as it may lay seeds of reasonable doubt.

The reason to me it matters is because Jodi said the gunshot came first.

You made a good point as far as the defensive wounds though, and yes, it is very hard to believe someone would fight off a knife after being shot in the head.

I am not a gun person, but can .25 calibre gun do alot of damage?

Well, like I said, relatively speaking, it didn't do as much damage as other calibre bullets. But it did its damage. It passed through his brain and skull and lodged in his cheek, which must have been extremely painful. Dr. Horn said that when a bullet goes through your head, there's an explosion of gas (or something, I'm not an expert and this was a while ago) that will cause disorientation, pain and confusion. I can honestly see why Horn's opinion is that the shot came last. And it did sound a little like it was being implied that Dr. Horn and Flores collaborated to adjust their testimony to go against Jodi's version. If that's not what was being implied I apologize. But I just kind of find that outrageous. IMO, the question was put to Horn without pretense or any reason given as to why it was being as asked, nor was he told what Jodi's story was. After all, he's just the ME. He has no reason to lie.

 

[Love Never Fails]

The two sides float into Monday's conference on a tide of antagonism over defense witnesses. That has been duly reported in media. All parties are also pushed out of shape over other issues and orders to act, willing or not. Arias relies on her professional witness to sway the next jury and such witnesses usually seek publicity to advance their career & recognition from peers and prospective clients. For that reason, the defense may be pressured to think again regarding cameras in the courtroom. The television motion may be more persuasive this time round, as well.

Judge Stephens has demonstrated that she insists on an orderly court, so we can expect the parties to the proceeding to conduct themselves with civility. Now that Arias has retreated to a passive position in her defendant's seat, there may be fewer snarls. She will continue to drag, brake and stall, however. That in itself is enough to spur a crisis Monday.

We have all learned the hard way that JA likes to create a crisis. Either way, I am just happy that the 15th is almost here. I want to know the decision about the cameras. I will be surprised if the defense fights this request.

 

[ElleElle]

ellelle, I always thought she shot him first, and he just kept going to her dismay. She might have even had to run downstairs for the knife. Maybe that is why he was able to crawl to the bedroom.

My gut tells me it is possible since grandparents' gun was stolen, and really, shooting someone is easier than stabbing. Plan A was shoot, and run to go see Ryan B. But, it all went sideways.

Also, Travis could have turned his head at the same time. The second round jammed and then off to Plan B?

Running downstairs is also possible, hence the blood smear on the staircase.

 

[MeeBee]

IMO, the gunshot wound would have bled profusely if he had been shot first. I believe the shot was post-mortem based on the description given by the experts that there was little to no bleeding from that particular wound.

Head wounds--even relatively minor ones--bleed a lot. And if the victim is at all active after a head wound it will bleed even more copiously than if he remains still.

I do not know that the gunshot was last but I do not believe it was first. Whenever it happened, IMO, he was either already dead or died very quickly after the shot to the head.

That, too, the bleeding.

Good point about the order. Isn't it also possible Jodi used the gun after she began the stabbing and Travis overtook her, made it out of the shower and she was worried he'd get away?

 

[Love Never Fails]

I am discussing it because I am trying to figure what "new evidence" Jodi is going to bring up in the sentencing trial.

I get that. But we are past the guilt stage of this trial and I am not sure what evidence about the gun vs the knife being first could play into the penalty phase. None of it was in self defense and that was her claim. Once he was down she could have run and called police. Instead she ran to see a possible new boyfriend.

 

[krkrjx]

What about the fact that the bridge of his nose was broken by the bullet's travel to his cheek? Had be been shot first, there would have been copious amount of blood in his lungs and stomach from trying to breathe through the flow of blood down his throat.

If you watch the unedited interrogation tapes you'll see that Flores believed from the beginning that Travis had to have been shot first because he didn't think JA could have done all that damage without him first being diabled in some manner.

And then he changed his tune on that once the autopsy reports came out. That wound did not bleed. There was blood everywhere in the bathroom and even in the bedroom. He was moving around after he was injured from wounds that were copiously bleeding.

What Flores assumed from crime scene photos is not the same as what he came to know from autopsy reports. His saying gunshot first initially, then changing it to gunshot last is understandable; once he had more information on the wounds he was able to see his initial assumption was incorrect.

Flores changing his assessment of the situation is in a nutshell what Arias is wanting to use to prove Flores is a liar--all because he said one thing at one time and then testified to something different at trial. She says he and Horn both will say whatever needs to be said based on who they are talking to at the time. I call BS on that because it is not out of the realm to assume something early on and then once more information comes out you realize you assumed wrong. Every person on earth will at some point assume and then change their tune once they get more information.

 

[MeeBee]

My gut tells me it is possible since grandparents' gun was stolen, and really, shooting someone is easier than stabbing. Plan A was shoot, and run to go see Ryan B. But, it all went sideways.

Also, Travis could have turned his head at the same time. The second round jammed and then off to Plan B?

Running downstairs is also possible, hence the blood smear on the staircase.

It's possible.

Just logically speaking, I can more see wanting a gun as a backup to a knife than a knife as backup to a gun. You're kind of moving backwards with the latter. IMO, it's more likely Jodi wanted inflict as much pain and suffering as possible then moved to plan B, the gun, when Travis made a break for it.

 

[krkrjx]

That, too, the bleeding.

Good point about the order. Isn't it also possible Jodi used the gun after she began the stabbing and Travis overtook her, made it out of the shower and she was worried he'd get away?

Anything is possible. The only reason she killed him so many times is she was angry and wanted to inflict as much pain as possible. Had she just shot him, or stabbed him once or twice, or slit his throat with no further injuries, this may never have been a death penalty case. She had opportunity, apparently, to do away with Travis in a way far less traumatic and painful to him than what she actually did. He was asleep, apparently, at least some of the time while she was there. She could have killed him in is sleep a lot easier than the way she chose; it would have been far more humane, less messy, and she could have even convinced a few jurors she did it in self defense.

Bottom line is she didn't just want Travis dead. She wanted him to suffer in the process. IMO.

 

[Tuba]

Well, mainly a crisis for us because we have no tolerance for these continuances. Tongue in cheek. Judge Stephens said, once you reconsider representing yourself if you should, Miss Arias, that will not create a cause for delay. There will be no delays. Obstructionist procrastinator that she is, Arias will press for a case management delay. As you will remember, her defense team is no ball of fire either and has put numerous stalls in place. Nevertheless, she is the pest behind this one. The crisis is for Judge Stephens, who wants to move ahead as she ordered from the bench. She does not want to retract her ultimatum. There is a stagnancy in a defense witness situation and they will offer to resolve it but this requires a delay in organizing the case, which is what all are present Monday to accomplish. Are you as sick of these tactics as I am? I thought so.

I am trying to respond to your question here, LambChop.

 

[ElleElle]

It's possible.

Just logically speaking, I can more see wanting a gun as a backup to a knife than a knife as backup to a gun. You're kind of moving backwards with the latter. IMO, it's more likely Jodi wanted inflict as much pain and suffering as possible then moved to plan B, the gun, when Travis made a break for it.

Or sadly, was screaming in fear of his life.

From crime shows i've watched, stabbing with a knife takes alot of effort. Jodi was much smaller than Travis so, it is difficult to picture that happening.

Mind you, he was cornered in the shower.

Argh! I wish she would say what really happened.

 

[krkrjx]

My personal opinion of the gunshot: It was Jodi symbolically screaming one final F-U, occurring after her killing frenzy and after she had dragged poor Travis back to the shower dead or dying.

 

[LambChop]

Well, mainly a crisis for us because we have no tolerance for these continuances. Tongue in cheek. Judge Stephens said, once you reconsider representing yourself if you should, Miss Arias, that will not create a cause for delay. There will be no delays. Obstructionist procrastinator that she is, Arias will press for a case management delay. As you will remember, her defense team is no ball of fire either and has put numerous stalls in place. Nevertheless, she is the pest behind this one. The crisis is for Judge Stephens, who wants to move ahead as she ordered from the bench. She does not want to retract her ultimatum. There is a stagnancy in a defense witness situation and they will offer to resolve it but this requires a delay in organizing the case, which is what all are present Monday to accomplish. Are you as sick of these tactics as I am? I thought so.

I am trying to respond to your question here, LambChop.

I do hope the judge puts her foot down on this one. They have had a year to get this accomplished during which time her attorneys were in charge. The judge did warn her. And don't they have a limited amount of time to start this retrial before they have to reschedule which would be probably another year. If she has not witnesses they aren't going to be there in a year from now either. I'll say it again, "She mocks the court".

 

[LambChop]

I have a question because by this time, on this case, my brain is mush. How do we know the gun jammed which Jodi has no memory of what happened?

 

[geevee]

I have a question because by this time, on this case, my brain is mush. How do we know the gun jammed which Jodi has no memory of what happened?

As far as I recall, that was just supposition as to why she didn't shoot more than once and why she didn't only kill him with the gun. No other support for that to the best of my knowledge.

 

[geevee]

And then he changed his tune on that once the autopsy reports came out. That wound did not bleed. There was blood everywhere in the bathroom and even in the bedroom. He was moving around after he was injured from wounds that were copiously bleeding.

What Flores assumed from crime scene photos is not the same as what he came to know from autopsy reports. His saying gunshot first initially, then changing it to gunshot last is understandable; once he had more information on the wounds he was able to see his initial assumption was incorrect.

Flores changing his assessment of the situation is in a nutshell what Arias is wanting to use to prove Flores is a liar--all because he said one thing at one time and then testified to something different at trial. She says he and Horn both will say whatever needs to be said based on who they are talking to at the time. I call BS on that because it is not out of the realm to assume something early on and then once more information comes out you realize you assumed wrong. Every person on earth will at some point assume and then change their tune once they get more information.

I think it was perfectly reasonable for Flores to have drawn the gunshot-first conclusion from the crime scene and then to have changed his mind after the autopsy. There is simply no way her story holds any water at all, London fog or bright clear full-moon night, she's just a killer with a ridiculous defense.

 

[LambChop]

As far as I recall, that was just supposition as to why she didn't shoot more than once and why she didn't only kill him with the gun. No other support for that to the best of my knowledge.

Then it would be just as easy for the prosecutor to suggest that she only needed one shot because he was already dead, since she does not remember...that is. Obviously she knew where the knife was because she stabbed him. She had to run right past it to get to the gun, according her recall as to where the knife was put after cutting the cord. Lots of holes in her story. Hope JM has a chance to fill them right up to the top this time. :judge:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

As far as I recall, that was just supposition as to why she didn't shoot more than once and why she didn't only kill him with the gun. No other support for that to the best of my knowledge.

I don't think the gun jammed. I think she planned it that way. I think she wanted to kill him with the knife and that she was just so tired and he was not dying fast enough because that crime had to be exhausting for her dragging him, stabbing him over and over. I think the gun was to make sure he did not fight her but she wanted it to be bloody and ugly and only used the gun because he was still not dead and she had nothing left.

 

[MeeBee]

Or sadly, was screaming in fear of his life.

From crime shows i've watched, stabbing with a knife takes alot of effort. Jodi was much smaller than Travis so, it is difficult to picture that happening.

Mind you, he was cornered in the shower.

Argh! I wish she would say what really happened.

I think it's quite apparent now Jodi is not the kind of girl to think these things through. I don't think she thought of that. What everyone else is saying makes perfect sense. She wanted him to suffer and to feel and see what was coming. Otherwise, she could have just killed him in his sleep. She waited until he was awake, alert, and facing her. To sneak up behind him and shoot him at that point doesn't jel with this thinking. Besides, it may be difficult for a woman to stab a man. But laced with adrenaline and anger, they do it all the time. Look up the stiletto killer. She killed him with nothing more than a shoe. Look what she did to his throat. Girl was coursing with strength in that moment.

Yeah, gun after stabbing, at this point, makes much more sense to me.

 

[Tuba]

I think the witnesses Arias puts emphasis on are the P.I. and the professional who evaluates her. That professional will be more at ease, more protected, with an attorney guiding her, rather than a pro se defendant. As for the private investigator, Arias will complain that the police evidence did not reach him timely and he needs to examine every item carefully. Although Arias was made to understand that it was necessary for him to go through the prosecution, ignorance of that would have been the cause of any delay.