Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

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but it just makes no legal sense. I can't even imagine this judge finding a defendant gets to testify in secret to protect her due process rights. A defendant has the right to NOT testify but not the right to testify under mandate of secrecy. It just is without any legal basis. Not that has mattered much here. I went back and listened to Juan. He said:
the witness that was on the stand that could be called on wednesday
. I agree that this could be JA but I don't think it has to be. One of the 3 witnesses could still be in town. I'm trying to think about the other statements. They kept referring to there being "3 witnesses" which was further defined as "2 experts and one other witness from CA". So is it there are 3 witnesses total or 3 witnesses plus JA? It's just so baffling and for no good reason. There's just no need to make a mystery novel out of a proceeding that occurs under normal open court rules all over this country.



JM was magnificent in that regard. Without violating any secret secrecy sealed sidebar somethings, he told anyone who was listening that: CMJA is the secret witness, that the DT has 2 expert witnesses and maybe one civilian witness from CA, and a handful of sworn statements that probably can be stipulated to by counsel. That's it.

Put that together with what JSS said --that she saw no problem with calling some of his witnesses out of order . Some of the big number of 3.
 
anyway was responding to Reagan who wrote:




Don't forget, he also blamed the state and then the media. It is a lot to expect, that a defense attorney arguing for who knows what can't cite a case. I don't even know exactly what he was arguing for or against. The CT granted the stay of JS's secrecy order. Now this, to a normal atty, would signal they have a losing argument.

So, that would mean he would come to court the next day understanding that the trial must go on and he can't have a secret witness. To me, a "normal attorney" would then try for the lesser restrictions mentioned by the CT to try and get something. But this pre-supposes good faith. And this is really my issue with the DT. I sense a certain lack of good faith. It seemed pretty clear that KN couldn't cite any AZ precedent for what he was requesting and the CT of Appeals granted the stay, indicating a likelihood of success for the media position. So, what type of good faith basis could he have for refusing to go forward with the mitigation proceeding? I'm not really seeing any. Course, how can we possibly know since, as you noted, they then went into a secret discussion, again.

I went and listened to todays proceedings again to try and figure out KN's actual argument and I am even more incredulous. Juan gets up and makes perfect sense so no need to discuss.

KN gets up and starts with his statement, that he doesn't remember the case but the holding is that the state is presumed to know the law. And that means state should know defendants rights are superior to victims. Notes this is not about sabotage. He goes on about how he does want to go forward and would be happy to do so just as JS agreed to last week. (OK, that is a total bad faith argument as JS's secret witness order was stayed-she can't allow it) He continues about how Rule 19 isn't important here. Rights of JA are and JS herself found going ahead not in secret would be "problematic"-uses her word "problematic" numerous times. From that he states as fact that what JS found as "problematic" is of constitutional significance, that JA has the right to litigate issues and he's happy to go forward as JS said he could in secrecy. Then he gets into the media causing this and Juan not arguing against media so it's his fault too and so the media can cause a mistrial. He ends with acting all confused about why the judge is changing her position, why she would try to make them go forward without the promised secrecy, since she said it was problematic, like he completely forgot JS's order got slapped down by the appeals ct.

His "argument" is, well, lame and disengenuous, unless he has actual amnesia and forgot he went to the court of appeals. Whatever JS thought was "problematic", she simply can't let DT go forward in secrecy because the higher ct said she can't. Yet he is still arguing for that. He's got to know it isn't even possible. Of course he's using JS's words against her but even that is fairly lame, so she agreed it was "problematic" to go forward without the secrecy, when she agreed to the secrecy, of course she did, she needed to state some plausible reason to cave in to a ridiculous request. Just because something is problematic doesn't mean it affects JA's constitutional rights. "Problematic" is just about the lamest excuse for defying the constitution I've come across lately. That pesky 1st Amendment is just so "problematic" we should just do away with it for JA.

But then, JS speaks and actually starts to put her foot down and lay it on the table (mixed methaphors but I took some NYQUIL too). There she is, strong and decisive: the court stayed my order. You have to decide about proceeding out of order and not in preferred manner. you have other witnesses.....then it goes downhill-she starts caving...well, I know you have to file papers by Friday so I will limit the time you have to spend here. Juan says all DT has is 2 experts and one other witness from CA and the rest are affidavits. Then, you guessed it, she calls for secrecy because they're discussing witnesses and of course they need to be secret even though the court pretty much said they couldn't be and so it ends as always with wishy washy caving in and cancelling court and preserving the secrecy of the witnesses for another day.

We need to get the judge a "bat phone".
 
thank you to all the lawyers who have answered so many questions. You guys rock.
 
Boytwnmom,

Wow! You stated that so much more eloquently than I ever could. Thank you for your well thought out and intelligent response.
Flu meds or no flu meds, I wouldn't have known what the hell nurms was trying to argue either. It was all just a garbled mess of pointing fingers, with no case law, from the media, to Juan, to telling the judge he wanted it on the record that she changed her mind. (Err, yeah? Her decision was overturned, remember?). I don't know where he gets off thinking the 1st amendment all of a sudden doesn't apply to him and his client.

Anyway, I hope you feel better, too. You'd never be able to tell that you had been hitting the Nyquil bottle tonight lol. Your post was very well stated.
 
Listened to the video for a third time.

JM says...there are two expert witnesses and "another potential witness from California."

He prefaced by saying he saw no reason why the case should go past Dec 18 because "of the things that have happened that you know about, " and because the DT witness list is short, and because he has(inference) a sense of their testimony , he knows that collectively, the witnesses won't be testifying for very long.
 
Wouldn't a "mentally ill" defense have been brought out in the guilt phase, rather than mitigation?

Being "mentally ill" is not a defense to murder. But it is a mitigating circumstance.

I also saw JSS letting us know it was Jodi without having to say so. :)

I saw her glance over there, seemingly involuntarily, when Juan said "the witness who was on the stand." But maybe she was looking at Maria DLR? :fence:

AZlawyer! :seeya: Surfacing from grading for nine hours or so... Big Question: Have you ever taught? You are patient, professional, and aware of your audience--which on this board varies widely.

Smaller question: Is Nurmi making an objection to the Ct App? I'm trying to catch up, and this part is unclear.

I have taught preschool, formal logic, math, paralegal classes, law school (contracts and writing), professionalism, and test prep classes (PSAT, SAT, GRE, MCAT)...I think that's it.

Yes, Nurmi has not yet filed his brief on the merits of the Ct App case, and apparently plans to do so, based on the judge's comment that she knows he has something due that he needs time to work on this week.
 
It's still reading tea leaves to figure it out. Could be the secret witness is from California and Nurmi may call a second Cali witness.

If that's so, we can infer that CMJA hasn't testified and will not, and that a secret Cali person expected to be on the stand for at least 3-4 days, and thus JM knew availibility for today.

Adding....maybe JSS looked over at CMJA and MDL because their giggling distracted her.
 
In the previous thread, several posters asked for a transcript of the video posted - and subsequently removed - by Jodi's parents. I watched it yesterday and realized that I never closed the tab.

Thus, here is the transcript, word for word (including grammatical errors):

Bill: My name is Bill Arias. This is Sandy, my wife. We’re the parents of Jodi Arias.

Sandy: Hi everyone! We’d like to thank you for donating at Justice4Jodi.com and for helping us with the continued efforts to raise money to obtain the best legal representation possible for our daughter’s appeals. We’d like to let you know also that this is the only site that Jodi, her family, and her legal team endorse. It is run by the family and managed by the family.

Bill: There are other websites soliciting donations for Jodi Arias’s appeal. We caution everyone against donating to these sites because we don’t know whether or not these donations will ever reach Jodi Arias.

Sandy: Efforts to raise money for Jodi should be directed to her family and to the Justice4Jodi.com website. It’s the only site where we can personally guarantee that all funds raised will be for Jodi’s legal defense, and for no other purpose. We thank you for your continued efforts to help us obtain a overturned conviction on her appeal for her wrongful conviction.

We love our daughter, we support her, and we stand behind her, and we’d also like to thank everybody for their continued love and support that have shown to Jodi and our family. Once again, that website is Justice and the number 4, Jodi.com. Thank you.

Bill: Thank you.


*As music plays, the video cuts to a photo of a 3 or 4 year old Jodi, smiling and in pigtails. The camera slowly pans out.*


This video showed me the detachment the parents had with Jodi. What parent would say "Jodi Arias"? Why not just "Jodi, or my daughter"? The detachment appears to be more from Mr. Arias it seems. Maybe I am reading too much into it though, as it appears they are reading from a script.
 
In the previous thread, several posters asked for a transcript of the video posted - and subsequently removed - by Jodi's parents. I watched it yesterday and realized that I never closed the tab.

Thus, here is the transcript, word for word (including grammatical errors):

Bill: My name is Bill Arias. This is Sandy, my wife. We’re the parents of Jodi Arias.

Sandy: Hi everyone! We’d like to thank you for donating at Justice4Jodi.com and for helping us with the continued efforts to raise money to obtain the best legal representation possible for our daughter’s appeals. We’d like to let you know also that this is the only site that Jodi, her family, and her legal team endorse. It is run by the family and managed by the family.

Bill: There are other websites soliciting donations for Jodi Arias’s appeal. We caution everyone against donating to these sites because we don’t know whether or not these donations will ever reach Jodi Arias.

Sandy: Efforts to raise money for Jodi should be directed to her family and to the Justice4Jodi.com website. It’s the only site where we can personally guarantee that all funds raised will be for Jodi’s legal defense, and for no other purpose. We thank you for your continued efforts to help us obtain a overturned conviction on her appeal for her wrongful conviction.

We love our daughter, we support her, and we stand behind her, and we’d also like to thank everybody for their continued love and support that have shown to Jodi and our family. Once again, that website is Justice and the number 4, Jodi.com. Thank you.

Bill: Thank you.


*As music plays, the video cuts to a photo of a 3 or 4 year old Jodi, smiling and in pigtails. The camera slowly pans out.*

Jodi totally wrote this.
 
I don't know about training but we did hear ALV talk about that she need to be on the defense strategy.
 
LambChop, you asked on last thread if "cougarlicious" was name calling or a tweet name. Seems we have it spelled slightly wrong, but it is a Twitter name. Here ya go:
 

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Lol, that's crazy, too. All this time I thought you guys were calling her that for fun and was all, ok...I can see that. Had no idea it's what she calls herself...oy vey.

:facepalm:
 
I think that's a good point a previous poster (boytwnmom?) made about Juan's comment not necessarily being about Jodi. Nurmi made a thing about how this witness couldn't be rescheduled so perhaps the witness had cleared his schedule for, like a week, for his/her testimony. So Juan was saying, he should be good to go.

But I don't know. It may not be logical but my gut feeling is that it was Jodi.
 
but it just makes no legal sense. I can't even imagine this judge finding a defendant gets to testify in secret to protect her due process rights. A defendant has the right to NOT testify but not the right to testify under mandate of secrecy. It just is without any legal basis. Not that has mattered much here. I went back and listened to Juan. He said: . I agree that this could be JA but I don't think it has to be. One of the 3 witnesses could still be in town. I'm trying to think about the other statements. They kept referring to there being "3 witnesses" which was further defined as "2 experts and one other witness from CA". So is it there are 3 witnesses total or 3 witnesses plus JA? It's just so baffling and for no good reason. There's just no need to make a mystery novel out of a proceeding that occurs under normal open court rules all over this country.

I'm not an attorney and this is the first case I've watched and been glued to from the beginner so saying that, this is my opinion.

If you go back to the beginning of this secrecy stuff…. the day that it happened, everything I read about it said that the witness refused to testify in public. I never read that the witness was afraid or anything. I think that since JA threw a fit and refused to testify in her own defense unless the courtroom was closed, JSS was afraid that that would be seen as not giving the defendant a fair chance to mitigate. In the articles the day it happened, many started speculating about what reasons could be dire enough to justify sealing the courtroom and the one everyone came up with was fear for their life and lo and behold that is what Nurmi started spouting. Let me see if I can find the earlier articles… all of this is JMO of course.

http://www.usatoday.com/videos/news/nation/2014/10/30/18216301/

"Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Sherry Stephens and lawyers then met behind closed doors about the start of Arias' case. They made a decision to keep the public out of the courtroom because a skittish defense witness wanted to testify in private." http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/ne...ay-their-life-has-been-living-hell-since-his/

Maricopa County Superior Court Judge Sherry Stephens said Thursday that the witness will not testify unless the hearing was closed to the public.

"This was not an easy decision," said Stephens, who declined to reveal the witness' identity.

The judge said her decision to close the courtroom and seal the witness' testimony until the sentencing trial's conclusion is necessary for "the administration of justice."
http:///news/us/2014/10/30/victim-family-members-speak-in-jodi-arias-trial-n1912159
 
It's still reading tea leaves to figure it out. Could be the secret witness is from California and Nurmi may call a second Cali witness.

If that's so, we can infer that CMJA hasn't testified and will not, and that a secret Cali person expected to be on the stand for at least 3-4 days, and thus JM knew availibility for today.

Adding....maybe JSS looked over at CMJA and MDL because their giggling distracted her.
Honestly, I don't think the DT has a large pool of witness candidates to chose from.

If I am reading between the lines, the Cali witness is after the 1st witness, which, IMO, it's Jodi.

It could be anything. With all the twists & turns, for all we know, Jodi handwrote the incident into some sort of sick memoir.

Then an "expert" to back it up?

Lawyers: Can new evidence be brought in?
 
Did you WSers see one juror couldn't make it today due to medical issues, and the rest of the jurors were called and told to not come back until next Wednesday?

If so, I have a funny feeling jurors will start drop like flies.

I can only copy/paste Twitter images w/ Tapatalk.
 
Honestly, I don't think the DT has a large pool of witness candidates to chose from.

If I am reading between the lines, the Cali witness is after the 1st witness, which, IMO, it's Jodi.

It could be anything. With all the twists & turns, for all we know, Jodi handwrote the incident into some sort of sick memoir.

Then an "expert" to back it up?

Lawyers: Can new evidence be brought in?


AZ answered this in 1002 of this thread http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Arias-11-3-14-Hearing&p=11171339#post11171339
 
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